Regional Rail Link Bendigo Wise

 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
That is where the joke lies. During peak there are very regular metro services and you still get 70-80 people jump on the vline service.
simeyau

Rubbish.  The only real peak services that stop in Sunbury are the morning and evening Kyneton train.

Off peak there are trains every 40 mins...while vline is every hour...so there is still a more regular metro service. I have seen people wait for the spark to leave just so they can jump on the vline service.
simeyau

Point?  It's not a choice between a 3 train per two hour or a 2 train per two hour service, it's a choice between a 3 train per two hour or a 5 train per two hour service.


The plan is for a 20 minute service to the city but I wonder how many will then still claim that they need to catch vline (hopefully by then metro will declare there is no platform space for vline and Watergardens will be the interchange).
simeyau

Why do people keep throwing up this idiocy.

Vline trains need to stop in Sunbury so it can be accessed by people to the north (Riddell, Gisborne, Macedon, etc.).  Why would policing stop restrictions (assuming a decent Metro service) be any harder than anywhere us (especially since you have an army of PSOs standing around scratching their ar5es).

This clearly highlights what people want out of the service and they want the following: express services
melbtrip

Sunbury doesn't need express services, it needs frequent services - 3tph stopping beats 1tph express.


In the real world, carrying a heap of empty carriages into the sticks is just nonsensical.

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  simeyau Locomotive Fireman

Location: Sunbury, Victoria
Rubbish. The only real peak services that stop in Sunbury are the morning and evening Kyneton train.


Point? It's not a choice between a 3 train per two hour or a 2 train per two hour service, it's a choice between a 3 train per two hour or a 5 train per two hour service.



Why do people keep throwing up this idiocy.

Vline trains need to stop in Sunbury so it can be accessed by people to the north (Riddell, Gisborne, Macedon, etc.). Why would policing stop restrictions (assuming a decent Metro service) be any harder than anywhere us (especially since you have an army of PSOs standing around scratching their ar5es).

ZH836301

Have you seen how many people get on the morning and evening Kyneton services..and trust me I have seen 80+ people get off the 1623 Bendigo Down service. There are people travelling out to Bendigo etc left standing while Sunbury passengers take the seats as far as there.

Point?? If it is a choice between a 3 train  or 5 train  why do I see people stand on the platform..wait until the spark go and then complain that the vline service is running late???

Idiocy?? How many people from Sunbury are actually trying to access Gisborne etc?? Many of the people getting on or off at Sunbury are actually coming from/going to places such as Watergardens (for shopping) and Sunshine. I am not disagreeing about end of the line interchange. It would just stop this lunacy that the last and also this current government have in place allowing suburban passengers to travel on country services within the suburban area.

It was originally allowed by the last government who were scared to lose a seat and for some reason carried on by the current one. The people who were most boisterous about losing vline services were actually the ones who travelled during peak anyway, when there are very regular metro services already.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The only way out of this mess Is pick up and set down restrictions as per like Werribee.

Clarkefield may than see an influx of park and ride commuters
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange


Sunbury doesn't need express services, it needs frequent services - 3tph stopping beats 1tph express.


In the real world, carrying a heap of empty carriages into the sticks is just nonsensical.
ZH836301

It called demand and supply - People want express services - I see it on my train line in peak hour (Hurstbridge) people will wait for an express service.

Public transport is no different from any other service - if you do not deliver what people want and they will go else, for example drive thier cars.

Problem with this - more people drive thier cars and then roads get more full and then state goverment has upgrade the roads and
then there is less money to upgrade public transport.

The only way out of this mess Is pick up and set down restrictions as per like Werribee.

Clarkefield may than see an influx of park and ride commuters

Nope - people in peak hour are catching the V/Line to Werribee regradless to pick up/ set down restrictions at Werribee.
Outside peak - people just drive thier cars from Werribee to the City because of lack of express services in this time frame.
Next year(April) Werribee will have two new stations and which they can use the V/Line service from
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It called demand and supply - People want express services - I see it on my train line in peak hour (Hurstbridge) people will wait for an express service.

Public transport is no different from any other service - if you do not deliver what people want and they will go else, for example drive thier cars.

Problem with this - more people drive thier cars and then roads get more full and then state goverment has upgrade the roads and
then there is less money to upgrade public transport.
melbtrip

People wait for the express service because it skips several stations. If you didn't have any express service, the patronage would be much more spread out because people wouldn't bother waiting.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

People want express services - I see it on my train line in peak hour (Hurstbridge) people will wait for an express service.
"melbtrip"

Why would people wait for an express, when that express cannot overtake the stopper in front of it. You will stand around for minutes after the stopper leaves, and arrive (less) minutes after that stopper does. Your arrival time is later than it would have been had you jumped on the stopper.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Have you seen how many people get on the morning and evening Kyneton services..and trust me I have seen 80+ people get off the 1623 Bendigo Down service. There are people travelling out to Bendigo etc left standing while Sunbury passengers take the seats as far as there.
simeyau

Diddums.  People from Sunbury might stand most of the way on a suburban service.  Point?  Do the Bendigo users pay a premium fare?  Hell no.


The concern should be about the economics of transporting empty carriages, not of whether people paying highly subsidised fares should be entitled to a seat.

Point?? If it is a choice between a 3 train or 5 train why do I see people stand on the platform..wait until the spark go and then complain that the vline service is running late???
simeyau

Because you hang around the wrong sort of people.  


That or they're going to Southern Cross, which on weekends, is a pain to reach given Flagstaff is closed.


Idiocy?? How many people from Sunbury are actually trying to access Gisborne etc??
simeyau

Quite a lot actually, and it has nothing to do with Sydneham (or Sunshine lol) since those numbers existed pre-electrification.


It would just stop this lunacy that the last and also this current government have in place allowing suburban passengers to travel on country services within the suburban area.
simeyau

You're offering a dumb solution to a simple problem.


Not stopping at Sunbury makes it inaccessible to the north, and impossible to transfer to (albeit lightly used due to horrid timetable) airport buses.


The simple solution is to up the frequency to a reasonable level, put all the transfer stops at Sunbury, and only then apply stop restrictions.


It called demand and supply - People want express services - I see it on my train line in peak hour (Hurstbridge) people will wait for an express service.
melbtrip

If people are prepared to pay for the cost of providing high frequency express services, maybe.


But reality is, they aren't (they don't even pay the true cost of existing services), so we have a choice between high frequency stopping services or low frequency express services, and when the latter can't overtake the former, it's even more obvious which is the preferred option.


Public transport is no different from any other service - if you do not deliver what people want and they will go else, for example drive thier cars.
melbtrip

Who cares. You still haven't realised the goal isn't acquiring patronage at all costs.


Outside peak - people just drive thier cars from Werribee to the City because of lack of express services in this time frame.
melbtrip

Citation needed. Sorry, you don't have a clue about transport planning, stick to quoting fare rules.


You think people are driving to the city and paying $10-20 parking because a service is 5-10 minutes slower.  Rarrrrt.


Next year(April) Werribee will have two new stations and which they can use the V/Line service from
melbtrip

Laverton to Southern Cross (current) ~25 minutes
Hoppers to Southern Cross (current) ~33 minutes


Deer Park to Southern Cross (ideal) ~22 minutes
Tarneit to Southern Cross (likely) ~32 minutes



Pretty obvious that it's only going to appeal to those in the immediate vicinity of the new stations - nobody from Werribee proper is going to bother with it.


Why would people wait for an express, when that express cannot overtake the stopper in front of it. You will stand around for minutes after the stopper leaves, and arrive (less) minutes after that stopper does. Your arrival time is later than it would have been had you jumped on the stopper.
duttonbay

Don't inject logic into a conversation with melbtrip.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Citation needed. Sorry, you don't have a clue about transport planning, stick to quoting fare rules.


You think people are driving to the city and paying $10-20 parking because a service is 5-10 minutes slower. Rarrrrt.

People do drive to the city and not  all parking near the city you have pay for.

Next year - free trams in the Melbourne CBD area.

Why would people wait for an express, when that express cannot overtake the stopper in front of it. You will stand around for minutes after the stopper leaves, and arrive (less) minutes after that stopper does. Your arrival time is later than it would have been had you jumped on the stopper.

It a better train journey - it a train journey that is not stopping and starting on regular bases and leads to more comfortable journey.

Public transport is no different from any other service - if you do not deliver what people want and they will go else, for example drive thier cars.- melbtrip


Who cares. You still haven't realised the goal isn't acquiring patronage at all costs.

Evenone that wants more funding for better train service should care - Most people in the outer suburban and country areas what a fast service to Melbourne and this normally means train has to stop at less stops on the way.(Express trains)

Here is example of good outer suburban and country trains:

  • Gold Coast Train Brisbane to Gold Coast (89.4 km) every 30 mins in the day time'

  • Sydney to Newcastle (168.10 km) train 40 mins in the day time'

  • Perth to Mandurah (70km) train every 10 mins weekday (daytime)

  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Bendigo City Council want a meeting with Mulder over the Vline service:
http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2543277/planning-high-on-council-agenda/?cs=3372

" Meanwhile, council will seek an urgent meeting with Transport Minister Terry Mulder to discuss timetabling and service issues on the Bendigo train line.
Councillors will consider a motion from Cr James Williams raising concerns with the performance of V/Line passenger services.
Cr Williams said representatives from Regional Rail Link and V/Line had indicated that increased travel times caused by the electrification of the Sunbury line would remain indefinitely.
He said a lack of new rolling stock was having a major impact on the ability to increase services and timetable flexibility.
Cr Williams wants council to support neighbouring councils on the Bendigo line in advocating for improvements"
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.

  • Perth to Mandurah (70km) train every 10 mins weekday (daytime)


melbtrip

This is not an express service - it's a service on a line with stations very far apart.

Nope - people in peak hour are catching the V/Line to Werribee regradless to pick up/ set down restrictions at Werribee.

Outside peak - people just drive thier cars from Werribee to the City because of lack of express services in this time frame.
melbtrip

Where's your evidence of this? I find it quite hard to believe.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
People do drive to the city and not  all parking near the city you have pay for.
melbtrip

Facepalm.  Stop playing the CBD motorist meme.  To crosspost from a better site:


PT use to the CBD is already close to saturation, leaving those who:


*Will never change (upper incomes, etc.)
*Can't change (require a vehicle for equipment)
*Are transient (deliveries)
*Arrive at odd times (late night)
*Are carrying passengers (drop offs, medical)
*Require a vehicle for onward journeys


Looking at commuters, stealing graphs from the exceptional blog Charting Transport:















Cr Williams said representatives from Regional Rail Link and V/Line had indicated that increased travel times caused by the electrification of the Sunbury line would remain indefinitely.
Carnot

I think he's misinterpreting.


Sunbury electrification may have increased travel time in some instances (peak), but any increase has been chopped by RRL - the only real increases are due to excessive timing on the Footscray to Southern Cross leg whilst they wait for the track to settle (and organise the mess).


Where's your evidence of this? I find it quite hard to believe.
railblogger

He has none, because it isn't the reality.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
He has none, because it isn't the reality.
ZH836301

So I thought.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
*Can't change (require a vehicle for equipment)
*Are transient (deliveries)
*Arrive at odd times (late night)
ZH836301


I am all those and am more annoyed by the bike lane on Princes Bridge (it has taken me a half hour to get from the VCA/NGV to Flinders St), the constant 10-20Kph under the speed limit Melbourne motorists tend to do and the lack of reaction the same have to traffic lights going green. I'm typically expecting parking to cost $10-$20 for all day as I'm only parking in one of four parking structures that charge reasonable daily rates.

I have used Public Transport for work purposes, to the annoyance of some Collins Street tram passengers - yes transporting some printer parts on a hand trolley takes up some space - and probably bemusement of others when I hop on a Gippsland bound V/line service at Clayton with my tool box on a hand trolley for the odd occasion I've had a job down that way and I didn't feel like driving.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Facepalm. Stop playing the CBD motorist meme. To crosspost from a better site:


PT use to the CBD is already close to saturation, leaving those who:


*Will never change (upper incomes, etc.)
*Can't change (require a vehicle for equipment)
*Are transient (deliveries)
*Arrive at odd times (late night)
*Are carrying passengers (drop offs, medical)
*Require a vehicle for onward journeys


Looking at commuters, stealing graphs from the exceptional blog Charting Transport:
















I think he's misinterpreting.


Sunbury electrification may have increased travel time in some instances (peak), but any increase has been chopped by RRL - the only real increases are due to excessive timing on the Footscray to Southern Cross leg whilst they wait for the track to settle (and organise the mess).



He has none, because it isn't the reality.
ZH836301


Proportion of adults using public transport for usualtrip to work or study
Melbourne - 2006 :17.7%

- The length of travel time on public transport was also reported as being too long by one in five people (20%).
One in five may use Public transport if did not take as long and one way by cutting time of travel is oftering them express services.
This why express trains are popular over stopping all station services.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter10102008

I have qutoe from a real source (a goverment depratment body) and not some blog, which I can't see where data comes from.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
You're hopeless - the data is from CENSUS and Vista (you know, the same mob you pulled your quote from).

Where are all these users going to come from for these CBD expresses if the PT modal share to the city is already at its limits?

Quit talking rubbish.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Do you think expresses are over represented on the vline network or are you referring to metro services ?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I'm referring to melbtrip's suburban Werribee express fantasies (born out of his constant desire to be there for no reason).

Really, suburban-wise we only need expresses to beyond Blackburn, Mentone, and Dandenong, as the other lines are too short to justify it.

These shorter lines can be improved further by removing dud stations such as Dennis, Darebin, Chatham, Mont Albert... etc.

Werribee would be best served by deleting Aircraft, Westona and Seaholme, fixing the curves/single track, and running all services via Altona.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I'm referring to melbtrip's suburban Werribee express fantasies (born out of his constant desire to be there for no reason).

Really, suburban-wise we only need expresses to beyond Blackburn, Mentone, and Dandenong, as the other lines are too short to justify it.

These shorter lines can be improved further by removing dud stations such as Dennis, Darebin, Chatham, Mont Albert... etc.

Werribee would be best served by deleting Aircraft, Westona and Seaholme, fixing the curves/single track, and running all services via Altona.
ZH836301

Werribee would be best served by deleting Aircraft, Westona and Seaholme, fixing the curves/single track, and running all services via Altona. - If going to do that and just close the Altona loop and build a new station near the North Altona bus interchange and which would save money trying to fix the single tracks.

Labor believes there is a need to reduce train travelling times on the main radial routes from the East, South East and North West in order to maintain an effective service. Failure to do this will lead to an inevitable decline in public transport patronage levels.

Labor will negotiate with private operators to decrease journey times as part of its flier trains initiative. This initiative will see an increase in express services on a number of Melbourne's major commuter lines -

Labor's flier trains initiative will also see an improvement in the service provided to commuters from Pakenham and Cranbourne. Labor will negotiate with the private operators for the introduction of Pakenham and Cranbourne flier trains running express Dandenong-Springvale-Clayton-Oakleigh-Caulfield-Richmond.

There are currently no trains running express Dandenong to Springvale and only one very early morning train running express Springvale to Clayton.

This initiative will cut more than 5 minutes off most peak journeys between Pakenham/Cranbourne and the City.

The optimum stopping patterns for the flier service will be negotiated with the private operator following passenger surveys.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000707233420/http://www.vic.alp.org.au/policy/transport/network.html

Werribee would best serve by extending it to Avalon airport and run as the following: Avalon airport  stop all stations to Laverton and run via Express route to Newport - Footscray - Nth Melbourne and then  Southern Cross and then to Flinders street

At Laverton run a stopping all stations to the city via Altona loop
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Bahahahahahahahahahaa, a 15 year old web link.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Bahahahahahahahahahaa, a 15 year old web link.
ZH836301

Yours aren't much better.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
http://www.elliottmidnews.com.au/story/2543780/poor-performance/?cs=1479 Another article from the Midland Express. There were 2 more articles on this topic in Tuesday's Express (16.09.14) "Pollies Speak Out on Bendigo Line" and "Bendigo train times a key election issue; Greens" however I cannot find them online. The usual inaccuracies in evidence.

There was also a rebuttal of sorts in the letters to the editor on the same day entitled "A few facts" from a Bob Phillips of Riddells Creek which seemed to attribute an 18 min timetable blowout on one serevice to "the fact that the train now makes a stop at Gisborne". He also may have been misquoted but it seems like a long stop!

One thing is for sure, this issue is hotting up on the Goldfields.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

There was also a rebuttal of sorts in the letters to the editor on the same day entitled "A few facts" from a Bob Phillips of Riddells Creek which seemed to attribute an 18 min timetable blowout on one serevice to "the fact that the train now makes a stop at Gisborne". He also may have been misquoted but it seems like a long stop!
BrentonGolding

Again, "timetable blowout", not necessarily actual time taken because of the 5 minutes or so of padding VLine have added to the timetable.

Gisborne stop would only add a few minutes, so probably 10 minutes of the "blowout" can be attributable to entanglement with Sunbury sparks.  Annoying but predictable - it was mentioned (quietly) when Sunbury electrification was mooted.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Again, "timetable blowout", not necessarily actual time taken because of the 5 minutes or so of padding VLine have added to the timetable.

Gisborne stop would only add a few minutes, so probably 10 minutes of the "blowout" can be attributable to entanglement with Sunbury sparks. Annoying but predictable - it was mentioned (quietly) when Sunbury electrification was mooted.
Carnot

It was, but that blowout is supposed to be removed because of the RRL. I suspect this will happen in the next timetable change.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I see it's Groundhog Day, yet again.

I'm just going to post the timetables again as I'm sick of typing the same thing over and over.

Sept 2007



Jan 2014



July 2014

  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
It's like a broken record. And not a cool record like Elvis or Elmore James but more like the Osbornes or that song about Pina colada that you really wish would hurry up and finish but it keeps jumping back

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