Traino 48's

 
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

After reading Trainorama news letter a couple of weeks ago Roachie .

I took it that if you ring us ( bother us ) you only delay your models arriving if you have paid .

If you wish to buy a model ( no money down ) please ring us straight away so we can get your money

To me this is not a way to run a business .

As for the 830 class .

I was told a couple of months ago that 836 was cancelled . But now being done in the latest news .

Also told 848 being done . now that seems to be disappeared from there latest news letter .

Who knows what's happening . Maybe B1 or B2

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  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I read it on the interweb thingy, so it must be true....



Cough - seventy - cough - three - cough class

excuse me,

could i get a class of water, yes, thank you very much.

Regards,

Catchpoint
"catchpoint"



So what is wrong with the Auscision 73 apart from the hatch in the long hood being a loose fit which is a trivial issue. Had no problems with mine.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Willing to stand corrected but your post seemed to imply that the "other" importer bringing out a forthcoming 48 class locomotive model, were faultless with all their released products to date...just sayin

Regards,

Catchpoint
"catchpoint"


Just saying!  & my tongue was firmly planted inside my cheek in what I said.  One only has to look at the FB followers & here in general to get the impression that the other mob has perfect models, & to criticise them is not right.

The reality is however the opposite as I mentioned in regard to the bargain bins with returned models being off loaded to the unsuspecting but they are also not alone in that either.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

How exactly are people being decieved by buying from seconds bin at shows,the sign says half price no warranty and the reason is they have something minor wrong with them,i have purchased many B class and 73 class from these bins and all have worked perfectly and only had a mirror missing or some other small part or a scratch on the paint work.Thats why they are half price no warranty,no deceiption there.Austrains also sell cheaper returns at shows and when Trainorama had models in production like 44 class they sold dummy locos,these were faulty returned locos converted.At least Auscision back their products,i melted a 422 class bogie stalled on a set of points and Auscision sent me a new bogie no fuss no charge even though technically they didnt have to,unlike traino who charge for 44 bogies!
A friends son knocked his EL loco off his layout and the body got smashed on the floor.Auscision sent him a new body they had free of charge,now thats good service.How many on here have had a faulty loco purchased from Auscision that they refused to warrant my guess is zero.
Auscision are smart they look after their customers,communicate well and most importantly back their products.
To get back on track my traino 48 runs very well and is nice a model.
Certainly an improvement over the powerline model.Auscision will have to work hard to better it.
  a6et Minister for Railways

How exactly are people being decieved by buying from seconds bin at shows,the sign says half price no warranty and the reason is they have something minor wrong with them,i have purchased many B class and 73 class from these bins and all have worked perfectly and only had a mirror missing or some other small part or a scratch on the paint work.Thats why they are half price no warranty,no deceiption there.Austrains also sell cheaper returns at shows and when Trainorama had models in production like 44 class they sold dummy locos,these were faulty returned locos converted.At least Auscision back their products,i melted a 422 class bogie stalled on a set of points and Auscision sent me a new bogie no fuss no charge even though technically they didnt have to,unlike traino who charge for 44 bogies!
A friends son knocked his EL loco off his layout and the body got smashed on the floor.Auscision sent him a new body they had free of charge,now thats good service.How many on here have had a faulty loco purchased from Auscision that they refused to warrant my guess is zero.
Auscision are smart they look after their customers,communicate well and most importantly back their products.
To get back on track my traino 48 runs very well and is nice a model.
Certainly an improvement over the powerline model.Auscision will have to work hard to better it.
"2LaGrange"


Who has implied anything about the modeller being decieved?  Just statements regarding bin bargains at exhibitions from all of them, although TOR only restarted exhibition attending since Liverpool restarted as the Sydney venue,

Each have adopted different sign & sale techniques, with one having a constant stream of models that are seperated from each other, add the prices together to form a working model & you don't them all that much cheaper.

I have not had issues with obtaining replacement parts from at least 2 of the competitors, different story with another one though.

I also have found that a lot of the models sold off by TOR such as bogies & the like ended up as spares for other branded models, as some of the U.S modellers I know were able to boast they could get spares of TOR cheaper than from the U.S for their models, being identical items was a no brainer, same thing when they wanted gears & the like.  Could TOR or others refuse to sell even if they knew that was happening?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Okay, I'm a little confused (nothing new there I guess). The following is all a little bit tongue in cheek......

This is NOT a complaint!!!

When I spoke to a "Michael" at the shop a few months ago, I was informed that the 3 locos I would be receiving were: 4817, 4883 and 848 (without shrike). I know, because I jotted the numbers down and then went straight to the shed, fired-up my NCE system and Decoderpro and proceeded to program 3 Tsunami decoders so they'd be ready to install straight away. To be perfectly honest, I don't really care what the running numbers are, as long as they don't overlap with the 7 locos I have ordered from their competitor. I can quickly change the running numbers of the decoders on Decoderpro....no problemo.

Now, reading the latest news on the website, it appears that 4883 is an unannounced model that is available to purchasers regardless of whether they have placed an order some time ago or not. the last mentioned loco in "my" trio (848) doesn't even appear to be on the list at all....now it is to be 847 and 858 followed some time later by 836 and 849....no mention of 848!

I am further confused by their request NOT to phone the shop....but I think I may actually get the gist of this.....They are saying that if you're only going to ring up to check on how your order is proceeding, then DON'T bother as ringing will not expedite it. However, IF you want to buy one of the hitherto unannounced models (4840 or 4883), then by all means ring and place your order. Fair enough I guess.......but I wonder if I was awaiting for news on my pre-ordered models (which I'm not allowed to ring about), but I wanted to buy one of either 4840 or 4883, would I be breaking their rules if I were to ask how my pre-existing order was proceeding?? I know, I'm just being bloody silly!!! hahaha.

Anyway, that's my giggle-fix for the day....

Roachie
"Roachie"



Bill thats no different to the way that Austrains does business, when a new model arrives & they announce it, they also tell those who have orders to not ring asking where there model is as it will just delay the despatch, in fact the owner at times also says if people ring & waste their time, they will go to the end of the line for shipments.

Way I read the other part of the news is that the factory has changed the orders & shipment schedules for their own reason, something that others have experienced also. They (factory) may also think by adding another number is something for the importer & the end modeller might be thankful for rather than being criticised.

I would seriously doubt that TOR or others are likely to chop & change numbers in the various runs just for the sake of it, although TOR had to cull a fair number of the original numbers that was listed for the GM's under the old leadership had decided on doing 39 different model numbers.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

I think you did with the below statement.

[quote="a6et"]The reality is however the opposite as I mentioned in regard to the bargain bins with returned models being off loaded to the unsuspecting but they are also not alone in that either.




To me this statement implies that the purchaser is being somehow deceived by the seller not informing purchaser that model is a returned model which is simply not the case when these models are sold at exhibitions.
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
So what is wrong with the Auscision 73 apart from the hatch in the long hood being a loose fit which is a trivial issue. Had no problems with mine.
"kingfisher"


You can read about it here: http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1809565.htm

When a contemporary model needs an article in AMRM about how to install a decoder that can control the lights beyond the usual 'wire up the LEDs with the right polarity and resistor value', it doesn't support the view that the manufacturer in question never makes any mistakes.  

Which is what catchpoint was coughing about.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

You can read about it here: http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1809565.htm

When a contemporary model needs an article in AMRM about how to install a decoder that can control the lights beyond the usual 'wire up the LEDs with the right polarity and resistor value', it doesn't support the view that the manufacturer in question never makes any mistakes.  

Which is what catchpoint was coughing about.
"SAR523"




As Catchpoint also noted  "remembering that the model was supplied to the market being "not DCC ready", no plug etc."
  a6et Minister for Railways

I think you did with the below statement.

The reality is however the opposite as I mentioned in regard to the bargain bins with returned models being off loaded to the unsuspecting but they are also not alone in that either.




To me this statement implies that the purchaser is being somehow deceived by the seller not informing purchaser that model  is a returned model which is simply not the case when these models are sold at exhibitions.
"2LaGrange"



Ok, I accept that I made that statement.  The thing was that I had asked the owners of at least 2 of those importers, & a stand worker on another what was the problems with the models?  They each would & could not say what the problems were, thus it was very much a buyer beware scenario & depending on what they were asking for them in many cases something I would not take the chance on.

Using the same strategy that is used by others on RP, that being buying other products from retail & other outlets that sell seconds, there is supposed to be a statement as to what the problem is with the item being sold, it has to also be highlighted & shown to the potential buyer by the sales person. Therefore I think in the case of returned models & then on sold as seconds they should at the very least have a tag on them stating the problem, if not then there is a case for deception owing to non disclosure.

Now for the legal experts to drop in.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I think you did with the below statement.

The reality is however the opposite as I mentioned in regard to the bargain bins with returned models being off loaded to the unsuspecting but they are also not alone in that either.




To me this statement implies that the purchaser is being somehow deceived by the seller not informing purchaser that model  is a returned model which is simply not the case when these models are sold at exhibitions.
"2LaGrange"



Ok, I accept that I made that statement.  The thing was that I had asked the owners of at least 2 of those importers, & a stand worker on another what was the problems with the models?  They each would & could not say what the problems were, thus it was very much a buyer beware scenario & depending on what they were asking for them in many cases something I would not take the chance on.

Using the same strategy that is used by others on RP, that being buying other products from retail & other outlets that sell seconds, there is supposed to be a statement as to what the problem is with the item being sold, it has to also be highlighted & shown to the potential buyer by the sales person. Therefore I think in the case of returned models & then on sold as seconds they should at the very least have a tag on them stating the problem, if not then there is a case for deception owing to non disclosure.

Now for the legal experts to drop in.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Ok, I accept that I made that statement.  The thing was that I had asked the owners of at least 2 of those importers, & a stand worker on another what was the problems with the models?  They each would & could not say what the problems were, thus it was very much a buyer beware scenario & depending on what they were asking for them in many cases something I would not take the chance on.

Using the same strategy that is used by others on RP, that being buying other products from retail & other outlets that sell seconds, there is supposed to be a statement as to what the problem is with the item being sold, it has to also be highlighted & shown to the potential buyer by the sales person. Therefore I think in the case of returned models & then on sold as seconds they should at the very least have a tag on them stating the problem, if not then there is a case for deception owing to non disclosure.

Now for the legal experts to drop in.
"a6et"


If sold "as is" how can there be a deception? Being sold cheaply would imply some issues also. Caveat Emptor.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

If sold "as is" how can there be a deception? Being sold cheaply would imply some issues also. Caveat Emptor.
"nswtrains"



Exactly 50% off normal retail is the clue ,no warranty,as is.... no one is "unsuspecting" and most Importers will let you inspect the loco,only difficult thing is you can not test run but I guess at 50% off make it a dummy if it doesn't work.

Having said that every loco I have purchased from various Importers bargain bins has worked except a 36 class which only needed a washer put under a screw head to stop it shorting the chassis then it worked perfectly.

In most cases you will find the Importer simply does not have the time to investigate a fault or repair a returned loco easier to just replace it with a new loco and use the returned loco as  a source of spare parts or sells it cheaply at an exhibition to a customer who is not willing to pay full price for their locos.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Exactly 50% off normal retail is the clue ,no warranty,as is.... no one is "unsuspecting" and most Importers will let you inspect the loco,only difficult thing is you can not test run but I guess at 50% off make it a dummy if it doesn't work.

Having said that every loco I have purchased from various Importers bargain bins has worked except a 36 class which only needed a washer put under a screw head to stop it shorting the chassis then it worked perfectly.

In most cases you will find the Importer simply does not have the time to investigate a fault or repair a returned loco easier to just replace it with a new loco and use the returned loco as  a source of spare parts or sells it cheaply at an exhibition to a customer who is not willing to pay full price for their locos.
"2LaGrange"


In most cases?  Certainly I have heard some of them say that when a model is returned but, the grab is simple if its purchased & returned under the warranty period, the importer would have to test the model to verify the fault, & they would be crazy if they didn't & simply took the customer at his word;.  They would have to test them before any replacement, meaning they know the problems with the model, no reason why they could not put a tag or note on the model to inform potential buyers.

Certainly many also go into spare parts, but in that case they are models usually with a major problem & could not offer them for on sale without revealing whether or not the model can be fixed.  I know several who had purchased models with binding valve gear & minor motor problems & they have fixed them pretty easily but in each case the seller was able to provide information on the problem.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Therefore I think in the case of returned models & then on sold as seconds they should at the very least have a tag on them stating the problem, if not then there is a case for deception owing to non disclosure.
"a6et"
Nope, a generic 'this cheap because it's faulty' description is fine, the purchaser can make their own assessment of what they are buying. The company I work for (now with extra added internationalness) does this all the time, stuff gets returned and we either don't know, don't ask, don't care or don't remember what's wrong, doesn't matter, price it to move for others to have fun investigating, repairing, or dismantling for spares, and get back to the real tasks that make money.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Nope, a generic 'this cheap because it's faulty' description is fine, the purchaser can make their own assessment of what they are buying. The company I work for (now with extra added internationalness) does this all the time, stuff gets returned and we either don't know, don't ask, don't care or don't remember what's wrong, doesn't matter, price it to move for others to have fun investigating, repairing, or dismantling for spares, and get back to the real tasks that make money.
Aaron
Aaron, I realize this is going off track at a tangent, but does your company not hold its reputation in high regard?  I would not do as you say they are doing because it could undermine the brand reputation.  Ah well, I am old school and to me the real task is not making short term money above all else.  I am a dinosaur I am afraid.

Sorry going way off topic. Embarassed  Just saying.
  T359 Junior Train Controller

Location: South Albury
They’re on the way!!
Indian red 4819 arrived in the post today - absolutely fantastic, excellent detail
BE CAREFUL WHEN OPENING SO YOU DON’T DAMAGE THE HANDRAILS
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Aaron, I realize this is going off track at a tangent, but does your company not hold its reputation in high regard?  I would not do as you say they are doing because it could undermine the brand reputation.  Ah well, I am old school and to me the real task is not making short term money above all else.  I am a dinosaur I am afraid.

Sorry going way off topic. Embarassed  Just saying.
"John_Bushell"
We are widely trusted by our client base. How is taking back faulty stuff undermining our reputation? We have clients that purchase $50k+ at a time, we are hardly going to make a big deal of them sending some product back. Sometimes they tell us what's wrong, sometimes we can tell, sometimes that goes into a bin, othertimes we can tell from their description or by looking at it us ourselves that someone else may still be interested in the items for parts etc, and these are sold for small money and everyone is happy.

You'd spend hours trying to investigate an issue you may not find, harrassing customers with phone calls and emails to find out what they thought was wrong, then spend minutes thinking up a price and months trying to move it at the price? What a waste of time and surely a loss making excercise when it's all costed out, or you'd just bin it further contributing to waste and cost? We make a cursory consideration (ie guess) at the cost, halve it, neaten price to look sensible, sticker it and forget it.

I'll tell you what makes clients unhappy, and that is when you oversubscribe a production run, and that is something we've never done, and never will do. Maybe that's why everyone is happy.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Aaron,

We are of different generations.  We will never see eye to eye on customer service and business practices so I just let it go through to the keeper.

Good news - my two 48 class engines arrived this morning.  Yet to unwrap them, but looking forward to meeting them soon in person.

Best regards,
John
  a6et Minister for Railways

We are widely trusted by our client base. How is taking back faulty stuff undermining our reputation? We have clients that purchase $50k+ at a time, we are hardly going to make a big deal of them sending some product back. Sometimes they tell us what's wrong, sometimes we can tell, sometimes that goes into a bin, othertimes we can tell from their description or by looking at it us ourselves that someone else may still be interested in the items for parts etc, and these are sold for small money and everyone is happy.

You'd spend hours trying to investigate an issue you may not find, harrassing customers with phone calls and emails to find out what they thought was wrong, then spend minutes thinking up a price and months trying to move it at the price? What a waste of time and surely a loss making excercise when it's all costed out, or you'd just bin it further contributing to waste and cost? We make a cursory consideration (ie guess) at the cost, halve it, neaten price to look sensible, sticker it and forget it.

I'll tell you what makes clients unhappy, and that is when you oversubscribe a production run, and that is something we've never done, and never will do. Maybe that's why everyone is happy.
"Aaron"


Aaron

While I totally agree with the thrust of what you are saying, I would still think that there is a difference with a larger corporation/business that deals in the tens of thousands of items, as against the Australian MR industry.  Not sure exactly how many locomotives are done in each run by the different importers, but based on how things were a few years back there was a minimum order for them & it used to be around the 2500 models, with a reasonable amount of different colour schemes & variations in the model.

I would think that most would have ordered more than that, likely at least 3000, depending on what was seen as being saleable in a reasonable turn over period.  I understand that most tended to allow for a 10% failure rate which covered spare parts, along with some small amounts of spares that some carried.  I would think they would for that amount to cover the majority of spare parts also.

In what I have said is correct or close to it, I would not see any problems or reasons why they would not be in a position to not know, let alone not wanting to know what the fault was in order to warrant replacement & then what to do with the returned model. On that score the models which are deemed not fixaable certainly would be ideal for the spare parts bin, the others which were deemed faulty but fixable by modellers, would be those in the bargain bins, & depending on the skill levels of a modeller would likely play a part in whether they made the caveat emptor purchase.

Certainly, I would not be outlaying the prices I have seen asked, for some of the models, especially those I would normally be interested in buying.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Good news - my two 48 class engines arrived this morning.  Yet to unwrap them, but looking forward to meeting them soon in person.
John_Bushell

I took 4812 & 4819 to the Club and ran them on the DC test track.  They ran nicely straight from the box and lights worked, changing with direction of travel.  Smooth running mechanism and very little noise, even flat out.
I am no expert on 48 class details, but to my untrained eye the detail looked good.  I can confirm that the buffer plates on the two locos were at the same height. Laughing

Tomorrow I will fit decoders and run them on DCC so I can do some load testing out on the main layout.

Quite satisfied with these models so far.

Best regards,
John
  LiverpoolRange Locomotive Fireman

Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Received my eight 48's yesterday, and I must say, they are very nice.  Detail is nice, paintwork and lining is crisp and clear.  Looking forward to weathering them up.





Thanks Trainorama. (yes I know I was sceptical, but I always said I would reserve my judgement until I had them in my hot little hands.)  Wink
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Tomorrow I will fit decoders and run them on DCC so I can do some load testing out on the main layout.
John_Bushell
Bugger, did not have a decoder small enough.  Hood is easy enough to get off.  I will get a couple of decoders during the week and advise after that.

Regards,
John
  Gremlin Assistant Commissioner

John,

What brand/type decoder did you try and what are you going to buy instead?

Cheers
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Bugger, did not have a decoder small enough.  Hood is easy enough to get off.  I will get a couple of decoders during the week and advise after that.

Regards,
John
John_Bushell
In what way were they not small enough? Was it thickness, length or width?
Cheers
Rod

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