New loco's at EDI

 
  NOELWB Locomotive Driver

Why cant EMD and GE put common rail technology onto their existing prime movers and going a step further retrofit this technology onto existing in service locos. Surely that would increase their fuel and enviro efficiency.

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  konkos Assistant Commissioner

Location: Live next door to half-bar
Wow, what an idea. That's like Ford and Holden coming together and having a common plan to build vehicles which in most part would be the same. it'll never happen.
konkos
  NOELWB Locomotive Driver

Well Konkos it might be a good idea to read my post again. I didn't suggest they do it jointly. Both companies are feeling competition from companies that use common rail technology eg MTU and Cummins to name but two. Both companies would have the resources to develop such an application for their present prime movers.
To follow up on your automotive company analogy, GM Holden did something very similar when they  put fuel injection technology on an old design pushrod V6 in the VN commodore. That motor continued on in that form for nearly 20 years.
And no they didn't do it with Fords help.
  konkos Assistant Commissioner

Location: Live next door to half-bar
Well Konkos it might be a good idea to read my post again. I didn't suggest they do it jointly. Both companies are feeling competition from companies that use common rail technology eg MTU and Cummins to name but two. Both companies would have the resources to develop such an application for their present prime movers.
To follow up on your automotive company analogy, GM Holden did something very similar when they put fuel injection technology on an old design pushrod V6 in the VN commodore. That motor continued on in that form for nearly 20 years.
And no they didn't do it with Fords help.
NOELWB

I sorta stick by my post as I feel that there is to much pride in each company's board.  The best way for such a thing to happen is  a merger or a takeover which has happened to EMD.  Now if these two companys feel that China is biting into their market, then something will happen. At the end of the day, it's all about profit and the shareholders is the name of the game.
konkos
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Um , no the Buick based Olden V6 went through a lot of updates in that 20 years . The VN V6 was actually based on the American transverse POS version which was why the water plumbing was all squiff in a RWD application .
Pretty sure the Yanks had port fuel injection on it at that stage  , Cali emissions regs more stringent than ours back then .

Fitting common rail injection isn't a simple task or cheap either . It creates a world of pain maintenance wise and the operators know it . The manufacturers will only ever do it because of the green gun aimed at their heads .
  M636C Minister for Railways

Why cant EMD and GE put common rail technology onto their existing prime movers and going a step further retrofit this technology onto existing in service locos. Surely that would increase their fuel and enviro efficiency.
NOELWB

Both types of engine currently in use have electronic injection.

However, neither of the engines in general use in Australia (GE FDL, EMD 710G3C) are suitable for meeting USA Tier 4 restrictions.

It is quite likely that no further improvement in emissions would be obtained by upgrading the engine. The EMD engine already meets USA Tier 3 emissions.

The GE GEVO engine used only in the Pilbara (in Australia) meets Tier 3 also and could possibly be upgraded to meet Tier 4. I don't imagine locomotive emissions are a significant source of pollution in the Pilbara, however.

Making such changes to even older engines would not be cost effective.

EMD would be happy to replace 2000 HP 16-645E engines with 8-710 ECO engines.
This would result in significant fuel saving and  Tier 3 emissions, but would cost more than a million dollars per locomotive and would require larger radiators.

Pay your money and take your choice...

M636C
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I sorta stick by my post as I feel that there is to much pride in each company's board. The best way for such a thing to happen is a merger or a takeover which has happened to EMD. Now if these two companys feel that China is biting into their market, then something will happen. At the end of the day, it's all about profit and the shareholders is the name of the game.
konkos
konkos

What drugs are you on anyway?
  sar602 Chief Train Controller

Location: Nomadic truckie
These CRD techno trash Diesel fan boys must be having a laugh, this technolagy has created issues that shouldn't exist and make life harder for the common man, when euro emissions where brought in on trucks the Kenworth factory in Bayswater was pumping out 17-18 trucks a day leading up to it cause everyone knew the issues it would cause. (By the way that's about triple normal daily production) not unsimilar to the big push to pump out new locos prior to T4. I refuse to buy a "modern" diesel they are basically all a load of shiite i miss the days when you could fix almost anything with a shifter, hammer and cable tyes, and blow black smoke in the faces of the lycra boys http://static.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif
These arrogant leftist PC jokers like Nswtrains are the ones holding back human development and will stop at nothing to achieve their perverted ideals no matter what the cost.
  EFB5800 Chief Train Controller
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

New MGE Brazil meter gauge cab, note that the cab tapers slightly inward from the waist upward to fit within the loading gauge
http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4689664/7/SD70ACe-BB_ENG_A4.pdf

Lets hope that Aurizon has taken note, just illustrates how restrictive the Queensland loading gauge is, and that it is possible to have 4300HP narrow gauge diesel locos

For Brazil's older meter gauge lines MGE is building the GT46AC
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cesartrens/16282524206/

GE do Brazil is currently building 7 of these for meter gauge
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/locomotives/ge-wins-first-order-for-new-brazilian-locomotive.html
http://www.gereportsbrasil.com.br/post/101881283184/expresso-para-o-futuro-as-locomotivas-que
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Likely wont fit under all those pesky wires they use in the CQ Coal network...EFVM would have done a huge amount of work and spent quite a large amount to fit those USDM locos on their tracks.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Likely wont fit under all those pesky wires they use in the CQ Coal network...EFVM would have done a huge amount of work and spent quite a large amount to fit those USDM locos on their tracks.
GT46C-ACe
EMD is already offering a 'Queensland' GT46CU-ACe model, so a version will fit. There's already 161 GT42CU-AC variants running under the wires with same length body (but admittedly minus the flaired radiators) as the standard gauge GT46...a narrow gauge 4300hp loco will almost be certainly running in Queensland before 2018.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

So assuming a 4000 class has 3000hp and a GT46 has 4500hp (both AC traction), is the GT46 heavier or does it have more sophisticated traction control to mean a train currently with 3 x 4000's could run with only 2 x GT46's ??


... oh, can the GT46's be made with exhaust sound more like "the good old days" ????   ... please !
GS4
EMD has a 150-tonne narrow gauge model on offer...all of the Aurizon owned coal network can theoretically handle a 159-tonne loco with a 26.5-tonne axle load. Tractive effort and adhesive weight are the kings in heavy haul, so the heavier the better...but some of the narrow gauge GT46s being built for African operators only weigh around 120-tonnes.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

GT46AC (the international version) http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4564108/7/GT46AC_ENG_A4_Web.pdf
There are more weight variations offered than shown on the Brochure
The Chilean meter gauge units, plus the 2 Muncie demo units, 4301 and 4302 (4302 subsequently renumbered 8666 by MGE Brazil), had a weight including shipping cribbing of 260,926 lbs (say 118.6 tonnes - an acquaintance snaffled the packing slip off 4301 - still in a plastic envelope stuck to the locos frame 5 weeks after arrival)

GT46C-ACe Australian version with our orphan cab http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4705134/7/gt46c_ace_ENG_A4_web.pdf
Note that the NG version is heavier than the lightweight SG version

Ignore the nomenclature, the Russian demo SD70ACeLW (SD70 label probably to appease Slavic egos) is a half breed, weight 150 tonnes, appears to use the older style parallel frame, but with the Australian cab, and GT46 style superstructure, to fit within the Russian loading gauge, height 4.826 meter. As at last Friday there was a pair waiting at Muncie to be shipped
http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4689666/7/SD70ACeLW_ENG_A4_Web.pdf

If you look at the current Google Earth image of Muncie (24/09/2014) you can clearly see 8 completes GT46AC awaiting shipping, plus a pair in the short length of NG test track. As of last week there were still 10  GT46AC for the Congo Republic waiting shipment, African governments are notoriously tardy payers, and PR will not ship prior to receipt of payment
  M636C Minister for Railways

... oh, can the GT46's be made with exhaust sound more like "the good old days" ????   ... please !
GS4
The SD70ACe has a distinctive exhaust note which is presumably what a GT46C without muffler would sound like.

I have a clear recollection of a train with three SD70ACes at the lead, and thinking that they sounded a bit like meat slicers - very loud meat slicers....

If that meets your description of the "good old days" , that's fine. I think more turbo noise and less engine beat than older EMD turbo engines, but they aren't silenced.

M636C
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The Russian loco has been known as SD42AC-R or somesuch this whole time, not SD70ACeLW.



This is believed to be the demonstrator and it doesn't appear to have our 'orphan' cab. Those 'slavic egos' must want the US kit....
  M636C Minister for Railways

We've been through this before, but I think the Russian demonstrator is a twelve cylinder rather than sixteen.

This should make it lighter, which would be the main problem. Russia has always had good clearances but light track (relative to the USA).

The photo above does have pretty short engine hood....

In that case, the "42" is the export power designation, for 3000HP.

M636C
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
According to sources both 0001 and 0002 (the Russian demos) have already shipped out.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

So 2 GT46's to 1 "regular" Qld coal train is quite achievable !   Impressive stuff.

That might drop the second hand value of those UGL demonstrators that are still in undercoat ? , , , Very Happy   Maybe they are actually intended to North Coast Line traffic and were only going to be coal haulers if no other manufacturers tried to make a significantly more powerful loco.  

Could the Siemens electric locos be ballasted to increase tractive effort ??
GS4
The 3800s and 71s already weigh 132-tonnes so they're ahead of the curve compared to other existing QLD coal locos...but I would imagine a few more tonnes of ballast could be handy if there's room for it. I have the feeling the market for UGL's PowerHauls is quickly evaporating with EMD's new offerings, not to mention GE has found a way to shoehorn an EVO primemover into a new design for South Africa, which might change plans at UGL for its future narrow gauge sales.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Maybe the UGL's are intended for non heavy haul coal traffic such as Toowoomba range coal / grain (would they fit through the tunnels?). Then again displaced 4000's would take that role.  I've seen 4000's on ballast trains just north of Gladstone, this reminded me how little time the 2100's must have left.
GS4
At the moment a likely scenario for after 2018/2019 is 2800s/4000s/4100s working almost all Aurizon services on the Mt Isa and North Coast Lines, 4500hp locos, electrics and 4100s working for Aurizon in the Bowen Basin and 4000s or 4100s working coal trains on the Toowoomba line with 2300s and 2300Ds moving into the remaining secondary duties. 2470s will most likely be the go to yard shunters (they almost are now). The 4000 class is already quickly becoming a 'northern' class now, with most based at Pring and Stuart and around ten left at Callemondah with the migration likely to continue this year.
  EMBaldwin Chief Commissioner

Location: Amongst the Cane Fields
around ten left at Callemondah with the migration likely to continue this year.
Sulla1
Closer to 20 at Callemondah... including a few that have recently been placed in storage.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Wow, what an idea. That's like Ford and Holden coming together and having a common plan to build vehicles which in most part would be the same. it'll never happen.
konkos
konkos
You dont quite understand the notion of "Common Rail " when it pertain to Diesel engines ,me thinks
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

This is what some of those Australian AC traction EMDs are doing at the moment...30 to 45 minutes at 10 to 20km/h on the Briaba Bank on the Newlands line...and that's on the new 'low grade' line...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gurO89aw3B8
  EMBaldwin Chief Commissioner

Location: Amongst the Cane Fields
Normally only 15mins of 20km/h minimum... unless something is wrong. Total section time Almoola to Briaba is 30 minutes approx.

Loaded trains not allowed on old (up) road.
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
News section in Motive Power says a trio of Gen 2 GT46C-ACe demonstrators are to be built at Muncie and shipped to Australia for testing. Also states again the 180t version that's also being offered.

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