Even if the videos were not placed online in the public forum as such, but were submitted to the court (either by sharing the link or by submitting a copy of the videos on DVD to/via SOR).

First off I must have missed seeing the video's so cannot comment on what was in them & what advantage or other they would be to either side.

However, I tend to agree with Raichase but would addd the factor that the video's if showing what is seen to be anything that demonstrates what is a breach of the decision & orders of the court, has to go to them to show how their orders are being blatently ignored by the perpetrators.

It does not matter if in the governments view that they are not responsible as they had sold off the items in question or any other item that would be considered as part of the decision which belongs to the rail line that includes the O/head wires & staunchions.  I think I read where both the government & the so called new owners are appealing the decision, so both are liable for their actions in ignoring the orders.

In other areas where services are deemed suspended, the owners are not allowed to remove any part of the line except for public safety interests, this includes bridges on the MBWH & the one at Cowra on the Eugowra line where white ants were creating an public hazard.  The NCLE line is fenced off now where there are road crossings a safety barrier has been erected which had to happen so nothing as such can be put against the gov or owners.

What SOR needs to demonstrate with the video's in question & by any other available sources, both private & public is that the court is being held in contempt, as such the government is deemed as considering themselves above the courts & their associated laws that they have to defend.

They need to also show the arrogance that is being constantly pushed out from the 3 ministers that are pushing this, Goward, dear old Glad & the premier who are totally pig headed about this & driven by the need to have cash for their pet projects elsewhere.

Aren't there some absolutely stupid ideas coming forward from Politicians and Tourism Operators now for the future use on Newcastle Station.
The latest idea is to have a farmers market or food markets there.
Firstly this is an admission that the Light rail will never be built as they have already laid down plans for the demolition of Civic station and now the transformation of Newcastle station in a stinking vegetable garden.
Kevin Eades , who operates the farmers markets at Newcastle showground and Speers Point Park said he would not be supporting a move to Newcastle station.
How many "markets" have been tried and failed around the top area of Hunter street now. If the population aren't there to support the existing  business in Hunter street, what makes anyone think that selling cheap tomatoes there will help with the revitalisation.
Also a story in todays Herald regarding the new University campus in Newcastle only have 5 allocated parking spaces for several thousand students and 300 staff because they aren't expecting them to travel by car. Going to be a some full buses then!

Aren't there some absolutely stupid ideas coming forward from Politicians and Tourism Operators now for the future use on Newcastle Station.
The latest idea is to have a farmers market or food markets there.
Firstly this is an admission that the Light rail will never be built as they have already laid down plans for the demolition of Civic station and now the transformation of Newcastle station in a stinking vegetable garden.
Kevin Eades , who operates the farmers markets at Newcastle showground and Speers Point Park said he would not be supporting a move to Newcastle station.
How many "markets" have been tried and failed around the top area of Hunter street now. If the population aren't there to support the existing  business in Hunter street, what makes anyone think that selling cheap tomatoes there will help with the revitalisation.
Also a story in todays Herald regarding the new University campus in Newcastle only have 5 allocated parking spaces for several thousand students and 300 staff because they aren't expecting them to travel by car. Going to be a some full buses then!

I remember going to some markets on a WE that was held in the old goods shed, less the power connected chicken wire & pigeon droppings when it served the railways, what got to me was how few people there were in the markets.

A perfect mid spring sunny day mid October with a few people in the markets even at lunch time, there were quite a few closed shops in the old wharf area, with just the coffee shops & other eateries vying for the passer by $$$'s.  Our adult children who marvel at this terrific harbourside venture said that this was typical in numbers on a weekend during the day.

The brewery appears to be the main attraction though at night with the booze flowing free.  The amount of car parking facilities around at the time (3 odd years ago) was certainly more than adequate for those around there, as they were at least 1/2 full.  Heading up to where the old carriage sheds were with the large grassed area & paid meter parking still had empty car spots, but certainly more enjoying the grass & picnic facilities at that location.  

While we walked up there noticed a couple of trains come in & the DMU's had quite a few people especially families who got off at Newcastle with picnic baskets & headed over to the park. Some with Surf boards also.  ARHH memories, both good & whats the point!?

http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/2015/02/10/claims-connectivity-argument-isnt-valid-with-development-on-rail-corridor/

Okay David's videos are back.

Edit: But with a copyright warning at the front.

Note: Seems the Remove Formatting may not be working. Thankfully I didn't have to remove about a 100 tags!

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-parliamentary-inquiry-to-examine-newcastle-rail-line-cabinet-documents-found-in-disgraced-mps-office-20150217-13gqrr.html

A parliamentary inquiry will examine confidential cabinet documents which reveal the NSW government rejected advice about a light rail route into Newcastle in favour of one that may cost about $100 million extra and gives more opportunity to property developers.

Labor's Transport spokeswoman Penny Sharpe said there were "serious questions why a backbencher, Tim Owen, had access to these cabinet documents".

The cofidental cabinet documents link to an image of a PDF.

Thanks for the link to "Copy 71". It looks like some people in Transport were doing some serious studies on returning trams to Newcastle.

I would complain less about the document being leaked to the public than the document's content being ignored by those who have power to do good or evil.

What a pity that the crooks managed to steal the process at the last minute. There must be many honest public servants privately fretting about this abuse of process.

Guess Gladys has so backed herself into a corner so far she can't lose face.

ss

Guess Gladys has so backed herself into a corner so far she can't lose face.

ss

I'm sure she has another one!

A government is not required to follow a recommendation from Transport NSW. It is not a conspiracy as all you misinterperatations point to. It is just a recommendation, in the same way a group of Councillors at Newcastle City Council can reject it's own council's recommendation not to put a 46.9% rate increase on it's citizens. You need to stop this petty school yard whinging and start focusing on the real issues such as the abuse of union fees being embezzled by a member of the Trades Union Council to bankroll her own community group Save our Rail, or the link between the Newcastle Trades Hall Council, Save our Rail, Labor, Greens and Awabakal Land Council.Everyone in Newcastle knows this is going on but you hear not a peep from the Newcastle Herald, it is still stuck with its 30 year love affair with Labor and is too afraid to report on the benefits of change for the city.

so to summarize your post:

there's nothing wrong or suspicious at all with the government choosing a ~$100m more expensive option that congests Hunter St and makes for slower journeys just so they get more land...

the REAL conspiracy we should we focusing on is SOR...

and the herald is biased towards labor.

that sounds about right.

Is there a  branch of the "Young Liberals "  in Newcastle ?   If so  they have done a good  brain washing job  of someone, Born to lead Oz , my rear end . We will do it our way  &  it will  only benefit us .

Embezzling union funds would warrant an ICAC investigation, one was held regarding donations to pay for electioneering letterbox pamplet deliveries.
Much better to spend 100 million in the region installing better transport solutions that spend it all in Sydney, how much has Save our Rail cost the city and the government so far with their wasteful court injunction? Contractors still had to be paid wether work was undertaken or not, all SOR are doing is delaying the inevitable and prolonging their bus journeys several more years. Yes development is needed on the corridor and with the 4th pedestrian crossing opened at Worth Place yesterday by Mike Baird, Gladys Berejiklian and Karen Howard the railway corridor has seen more foot traffic use it in a day than at any time it was used for running trains. Only one more crossing left to open at Kuwumi Place and another three proposed.
As for a congested Hunter Street, well it   is obvious you do not live here.

Tezza, all along I've had the impression that you own property somewhere that will somehow see you make a financial gain when the train line is gone. The fact that you're on Railpage suggests that you're probably a small time train buff that has turned to the dark side by the dollar signs.
It would seem that you are forgetting an ICAC investigation that tore through the nsw liberal party and the newcastle local government, it involved developers that just couldn't stand seeing newcastle in such a state. They tried for many years to close the evil train line but kept on getting told no. Thinking only of the poor people of newcastle they infiltrated the local government and started leaving brown bags in peoples cars and possibly other places too. Then along came Barry and his sidekick Gladys, the locals then set about showing them that the newcastle train line was evil and was destroying the once grand City of newcastle. Surely the earthquake, closure of the steelworks and the invention of great shopping centres like Charlestown square could be factors, no the train line blocks us from the foreshore. We've got superb beaches all around but all we wanna do is go to the foreshore and look at the industrial sites and dirty cargo ships on the other side. Eventually ICAC stepped in and Barry had to resign. Baird stepped up to the challenge and made sidekick Gladys the minister for the hunter as well as transport. Gladys was breifed on the evil line situation and decided to cut it on Boxing Day. One more evil christmas for poor Mr Train line. Not long after ICAC came knocking and a few other local folks had to resign (because they were innocent, I think not). AT THIS POINT the government should have postponed any plans to truncate the train line, pending a thorough investigation. Of course not, sidekick Gladys "forgot" who her advisors were but there were lots of them and kept with her Boxing Day plans, at that point she even launched the countdown until truncation clock. Tick Tick Tick. Now we fast forward to the week before Christmas, Gladys due to goto court over the injunction to stop the line from being closed and ripped up. It is revealed that Gladys has given away the signals and overhead wiring to the Hunter Development Corporation, with a plan to allow the HDC to compulsorily acquire the rest of the corridor, all in an attempt to bypass legislation that an act of parliament is needed to close a train line. Legislation that is designed to stop a particular gung ho political party or even particular politician from closing a line when it may not be in the best interest of all involved. If it's a good proposal then put it to parliament for everyone to scrutinise, if it's not passed then leave the line alone.
Then of course Gladys lost out at the injunction hearing but it would seem that even so they have been hard at work ensuring that it will not be an easy task reopening the line if/when the Libs are voted out.

A few points to consider are that Libs would normally sell out their own mother to save a buck, so the $100 million extra to keep the light rail off the rail corridor smells fishy, as does the entire price tag to get rid of a functioning transport system.

The railway will normally spend months or years on a major project like the truncation, there would be multiple shutdowns and the equipment would be in place albeit redundant. After one final shut down it would be ready to go 100%. No dodgy shunting movements, no confusion, minimal delay. This is a rush job unlike anything seen for years on the railway. Why it being rushed?? Best bet is that Gladys wants that line ruined beyond economical repair by March 28.

Newcastle is a great place and the fact that the cbd is only a shadow of it's former self shouldn't be looked on as a bad thing. A residential neighbourhood with a few shops and a lot of cafes would be a great place to live and visit. Just need to get rid of the crappy rundown ghost town feeling, I have read that the developers have bought up alot of property and have refused to do anything until the train line is gone. If this is the case then perhaps it's the developers that are ruining the city, kind of blackmail. Close the line or the city will rot as it were.

Also 2,000 people a day catching trains is not a small number for an end of the line station.

To come out and claim that everyone but the liberals, developers and pro rail cut/anti save our rail are corrupt is pure lunacy.

Keep the train line and make Newcastle into the great place it can be.

As I read into C4's post and following this issue for a while now, I am finding it, if I should say, challenge of being able to verify the general opinion of locals in Newcastle people, regarding their opinion in the future of the railroad line continuing to operate to the Newcastle station.

There is one staggering point that continues to disturb me the most.

Looking into this issue, now a serious crisis, there is also the need for people that would want to use the train to reach Newcastle, not just the locals needing to travel out,

However, it's disturbing to find the conduct of the Baird Government, through this person in the transport minister's office to transfer ownership of rail infrastructure and attempting to maneuver the legal definition of 'rail infrastructure owner' calling HDC exempt from the act as they never owned or ran a railway line before. Even the judge in the court that day stated his acknowledgement that the action was purposely committed to try to bypass the Act.

The Act of Section 99A clearly states you cannot remove the tracks and associated infrastructure or sell off the land without a Parliamentary Act.

Now today we find these cabinet documents from a former disgraced Newcastle MP containing details of the sell off of the majority of the rail land and diverting the light rail onto the road, with the sell of going to developers. (Is this light rail seriously going to be built?)

Putting just these points forward, of this crisis, the situation continues to worsen, along with the chaos at Hamilton, there are these 'projects' at 5 locations (correct me if there are less or more) as pedestrian crossings. There is no parliamentary approval to remove tracks, so the order is given to build these, termed, 'crossings' over the tracks. Bitumen and concrete are poured over the tracks and we are being told it's connecting/revitalizing the city.

It reinforces C4s statement that it's a rush job and at the same time attempting to destroy the prospect of returning the rail services, the infrastructure protected by the act, so therefore sabotage it. (There is no approval to sell off the land, yet they are going to build these 'crossings' over the infrastructure, is this the developers plan and there are buildings taking up the rest? Or could it be that the 'crossings' are there to cheat the hearts and minds of unsuspecting voters where the buildings will be built on top of them anyway if they manage to win the election?)

I am alarmed at the possibility that, overnight, have they got crews secretly inserting chemicals, agents or contaminants, designed to destabilize the soil in the land and render it unsuitable for supporting railroad tracks, or perhaps applying accelerants to break down the structural integrity of the infrastructure in case they lose the election?

A government that can attempt this extreme legal maneuvering and build over the top of infrastructure in attempts to bury the prospect of restoring the line even without the parliamentary act should already clarify how dangerous and narcissistic these 'people' in our ministerial offices are. People want the government to make decisions in good faith and for the benefit of society, yet with this behaviour they still give vague information to all those who will be affected.

I hope in the appeal coming up, there will be no bias in the judgement of the interpretation of the Act. I worry about these possibilities, if they try to use extraordinary legal maneuvers, what lengths are they prepared to go to get their way for their own vested interests? We vote these men and women into our ministerial offices we expect them to execute the office as they are sworn in (it still exists doesn't it?) there are decisions that cannot have a perfect outcome, but Australians upon understanding whilst being informed and knowing it's the only way do their best to respect the decision and accept it. This catastrophe here we have questions marks in Newcastle, and ministers relentlessly attempting to break the boundaries of the act, and, what benefit for Newcastle? As there are question marks, because the light rail project incurs more cost to build over the road disrupting traffic than running it down the existing rail corridor, costing even less to continue the trains, what about sinking the running line or if ambitious and preferred have the developments above the line? It's even stated that it won't cost a substantial amount more for construction to sink it.

If they dare to conduct government business in this manner what will that spell out for the next major decisions not limited to public transport if they are voted back in on March 28th?

You can only imagine how big the kickback payment must be for Baird and Gladys to go so far out on a limb and not fear retribution.
And how well it must be hidden from prying eyes as they appear to be very confident of getting away with it.
Switzerland or the Cayman Islands?

Thanks to C4 and 38 for your essays.

Showtime, They do not fear retribution in the Hunter, most seats are already written off after the corruption scandal. As they are no longer marginal seats there is nothing to loose by going for broke to please their developer mates.

Newcastle and other regional issues don't get much attention in the Sydney press so they have little to fear from the rest of the state. The election will be determined on other matters.

I would not be sure that all the politicians are being rewarded by direct monetary payments. There is an element of ideological satisfaction in being able to discourage publicly owned transport and in punishing a district that has so embarrassed them.

On another note, Labor are almost as bad. Foley's announcements reported in the papers this morning have rail deferred and more motorways, just not as many as those upon which Baird has threatened to squander the proceeds of the sale of the electricity monopolies. I guess that Labor also need friends in the motorway business. I had hoped for more from a former shadow minister for the environment.

Revealed: Minister backed dumped rail plan: http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2898124/revealed-minister-backed-dumped-rail-plan/?cs=305

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2897874/owen-faces-inquiry-over-cabinet-paper/?cs=303

Seriously....just because some have a different view, does not mean they are part of some grand conspiracy.....

Cheers

Seriously....just because some have a different view, does not mean they are part of some grand conspiracy.....

Cheers

Seriously, some of you guys are starting to sound like the nutters on You Tube who promote satanic conspiracies by the so called Alluminati. I spelt it that way because you all should put your aluminum hats on.

Obviously Tezza is not a filthy rich part of the developers' conspiracy because if he was he would be suing the smeg off some of you for slander. Some of you should watch what you are saying.

In my view the section of legislation that prevents the government from closing rail lines except through parliament should be repealed, as no government should be fettered by such a draconian piece of legislation. I am sure it is a purely NSW thing. There was a move to repeal it not that long ago and there was overwhelming support for it except for the usual rump of nutters in the Legislative Council who voted against it. Talk about unrepresentative swill.

Oh, and I am not a Liberal Party supporter in any way either but it seems a bit convenient for Labor to just find the so called document left in a former Liberal members office. I wait with bated breath to see if it is genuine.

Seriously, I am buying more units in GPT because, even though I am unhappy about the closure of the line and the associated land theft, I may as well increase my tiny share of the proceeds.

Seriously, some of you guys are starting to sound like the nutters on You Tube who promote satanic conspiracies by the so called Alluminati. I spelt it that way because you all should put your aluminum hats on.

Obviously Tezza is not a filthy rich part of the developers' conspiracy because if he was he would be suing the smeg off some of you for slander. Some of you should watch what you are saying.

In my view the section of legislation that prevents the government from closing rail lines except through parliament should be repealed, as no government should be fettered by such a draconian piece of legislation. I am sure it is a purely NSW thing. There was a move to repeal it not that long ago and there was overwhelming support for it except for the usual rump of nutters in the Legislative Council who voted against it. Talk about unrepresentative swill.

Oh, and I am not a Liberal Party supporter in any way either but it seems a bit convenient for Labor to just find the so called document left in a former Liberal members office. I wait with bated breath to see if it is genuine.

Spoken like a radical "freedom fighter". No NSW government has ever enjoyed an absolute majority in the Legislative Council. I'd call that the will (rather than swill) of the people, based largely on their general suspicion of the motives of politicians, particularly at state level, and a reluctance to let said politicians have a clear run at any policy decision for which an electoral mandate was not sought by proper disclosure prior to the election.

Replying to nswtrains

Spoken like a radical "freedom fighter".

That's his opinion.
How about BOTH sides stop it. And both sides read/listen to what others have to say/write.

No NSW government has ever enjoyed an absolute majority in the Legislative Council.

Only since 1988 according to this PDF. http://tinyurl.com/mro2upk

Since 1988, no political party or formal coalition has held a concurrent majority in both houses, meaning all governments have had their legislation subject to rigorous parliamentary scrutiny and debate.

That's his opinion.
How about BOTH sides stop it. And both sides read/listen to what others have to say/write.

Only since 1988 according to this PDF. http://tinyurl.com/mro2upk

Yes, my opinion is that any argument along the lines of "This law stops us doing what we want, so it must be wrong" is disrespectful of the rule of law, and therefore deserving of the epithet "radical" in its derogatory sense. Not saying that the system is perfect, but amendments require more careful thought.

According to Wikipedia, Labour (the government) held 24 of the 45 upper house seats at the conclusion of the 1984 NSW general election. That gave it a majority in both houses, confirming the reference cited by NE above. My assertion was taken verbatim from an earlier edition of the same reference, which did not bother to show details for any upper house elections. Flashing lights, sirens and a 20 point penalty against me for not rechecking a source vulnerable to inaccuracies and sabotage. But even a 27 year history of continuous bipartisan distrust from NSW voters is significant.

I am alarmed at the possibility that, overnight, have they got crews secretly inserting chemicals, agents or contaminants, designed to destabilize the soil in the land and render it unsuitable for supporting railroad tracks, or perhaps applying accelerants to break down the structural integrity of the infrastructure in case they lose the election?

There were a few contenders last week for contributors in this thread to win the coveted "Tin Foil Hat Of The Week Award",
Divine3801 smashes all the opposition with this gem.