Garratt coming to Southern States in 2015!

 
  ssaunders Train Controller

Thank you Murray for this post, its spot on with all of life's other goings on.

Love how gunzels think it's their god given right to know information and that deadlines NEED to be met. It's comments like made from our good friend ARK95 that make me (and Steamrail, we have seen your email) think, why do we even bother. The tone is just outrageous, including the comments I've seen from this poster on FB. Yes we have actually held back on some information due to this poster, why should we post something that would get ripped apart by this person, we feel as if we are damned if we do and damned if we don't, so we don't post anything.

Information will be handed out soon, at the moment there are a couple of more important items at hand that both ARHS Canberra and Steamrail Victoria need to deal with. By the way, after the launch back in November, we studied some of the comments that came back in and decided to purely market the Garratt trips at families. Yes there was a lot of excitement about the loco coming over, It's an expensive loco to bring over and the gunzel market just isn't there to pay for the tour we feel. That is one of the reasons why there has been no information. The fact there there will be hardly any 'long haul' trips, mostly be day trips or an hour's shuttle, is another reason why there has been no information, they will all be relatively cheap aimed at families as stated. July is still a while away and well within the marketing brackets that we have set up.
LowndesJ515

This post would seem to confirm it isn't going near South Australia in spite of the early advice.

No problem with this but clarity is key.

ss

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The message just is not getting through. WAIT, and all will be revealed.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thankyou LowndesJ515 for the further information. She's a big loco and everything to keep her going is big. I'm sure what you can work out will be good. Perhaps more trips will be planned, but it's the first full year back in steam. who knows the future.

Yes I'd like to see the loco roaring by. But mainline trips are expensive, and particularly on SG mainlines.
People like me do not see all the costs, paperwork, agreements etc so unless one has done it, I'll only speculate the goalposts keep on changing for those keeping these trips occuring.

Regards,
David Head
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I reckon it's very wise of Steamrail to have 6029 haul a lot of shorter family orientated tours.  That's how you get young people interested in mainline heritage rail events and backsides on seats.

Out of interest, when was the last time Victoria had a steam-hauled SG train in the state?
  ssaunders Train Controller

The message just is not getting through. WAIT, and all will be revealed.
Valvegear


It was Steamrail which put out the publicity (I noted the ARHS Canberra said nothing) and did reveal before they were ready it would seem. Telling people to wait is one thing but Steamrail had advertised something they are needing to pull back from.

As I said, no issue but they already told the punters one thing and need to clear it up.

ss
  ARK95 Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Love how gunzels think it's their god given right to know information and that deadlines NEED to be met. It's comments like made from our good friend ARK95 that make me (and Steamrail, we have seen your email) think, why do we even bother. The tone is just outrageous, including the comments I've seen from this poster on FB. Yes we have actually held back on some information due to this poster, why should we post something that would get ripped apart by this person, we feel as if we are damned if we do and damned if we don't, so we don't post anything.
LowndesJ515
I think it is really poor form (for someone of your status) to attack someone who is genuinely interested about the Garratt tour. At no time have I bagged out steamrail, I just expressed my opinion on this matter. Yes, I might have been overzealous with my questions but I believe my tone was far from outrageous

All I wanted to know was if/when the Garratt was coming to South Australia. If you come up 'with the goods' (information relating to the Adelaide tour) I will wholeheartedly apologize for my comments.

Sorry to everyone who was looking out for information pertaining to this tour and have been deprived of information (If there is any info) due to my comments (whose being hyper sensitive now)

By the way, after the launch back in November, we studied some of the comments that came back in and decided to purely market the Garratt trips at families. Yes there was a lot of excitement about the loco coming over, It's an expensive loco to bring over and the gunzel market just isn't there to pay for the tour we feel.
LowndesJ515

Geez that sounds like a back peddle from

Weekend tour to Portland ex Melbourne Trips on some Victorian Branch lines which hasn't seen steam for many many years. Shuttles in both Victoria and South Australia Numerous climbs up Mount Lofty A trip to Whyalla behind the Garratt It's going to be very exciting. Watch this space over the next month or two.
LowndesJ515

Here's a hint from a student studying marketing, Maybe you should have evaluated the market before making announcements for such a grand tour. Maybe doing a little homework should have been done before the launch.

Also while we're at it what happened to the diesel hauled tours to South Australia beginning in late 2013 / early 2014? Was that just another empty promise?

Like I said on Facebook I genuinely want to go for a ride behind Garratt in South Australia at some time this year. And I hope it all falls in place.
Good luck!
  Voldemort Junior Train Controller

Having grown up in Victoria, I've always wanted to ride a train to Portland one day.

As a child, my father would promise me sweets and games, and then renege on it at the last possible moment.

He promised me a computer for my 18th birthday and gave me two hundred dollars instead.

Having grown up that way, I guess I'm used to it. But it's no way to treat us.
  Voldemort Junior Train Controller

As a small consolation, I am going on the DERMPAV tour to Mildura.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
ARK95 seems to be quite smitten with his own importance.  He's never heard of preliminary announcements which deliberately have no detail - they are merely a heads-up that the feasibility of something is being looked at.

I think it is really poor form (for someone of your status) to attack someone who is genuinely interested about the Garratt tour. At no time have I bagged out steamrail, I just expressed my opinion on this matter.
"ARK95"
Lowndes told it as it is. You are one of the brigade who believe that what you want to know must be delivered immediately. Well, Princess, now you know differently.

It's still " . . . . I want to know ", and this is coupled with the impertinence to lecture LowndesJ515 - a bloke who has done more for rail preservation up until now, than ARK95 will do in his life.
Lowndes, Dd893, and I have all put it plainly.
What you want, ARK95 is of no relevance to anybody.
Wait until plans are final.

As someone studying marketing, you might learn one day that preliminary announcements are made to whet the appetite.

Geez that sounds like a back peddle from . . .
"ARK95"
It's called modifying an original idea which may have been found to be impracticable. While you're at it, learn to spell "pedal".

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ANY INFORMATION UNTIL STEAMRAIL IS GOOD AND READY TO PUT IT OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
Now, for heavens sake, stop whining like a spoilt brat and wait along with the rest of us.
  Voldemort Junior Train Controller

Before you continue on your patronising rants, you'd do well to consider that there are railway enthusiasts who have to plan their leave months in advance for proposed events like these. We have been waiting since November last year and for some of us it is simply not viable to simply turn up in Adelaide or Melbourne at short notice. STEAMINC in New Zealand already have their South Island grand tour dates in October and traintrips.biz in America also have posted their dates for their trips throughout the year.

And, by the way, I would be deeply offended if someone called me "Princess".

Trying to advertise something to whet the appetite of the miserable public and then not offer it is NOT good marketing. For a bona fide example, head to Coffs Harbour and drive west.
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Right. Enough of the demands. Information will be released when the organisations that are involved determine is the right time.

I'm watching. Carefully. A sense of entitlement is not appropriate.

Thank you.

One of your friendly, neighbourhood mods.
  ARK95 Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
I shall wait patiently for information about the Garratt, which will arrive 'soon'...
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

As a South Australian . I am saddling that 6029 wont be coming to SA.

I didn't realise when the flyer come out in November of the tour of 6029 to SA . That I & others were meant to join Facebook or twitter etc and still beg for them to come over .

I am sure that just running trips from Adelaide to Mount Lofty or Murray Bridge would cover the cost of bringing the loco from Victoria .

I also think why spend all that money getting the loco  going and then not using it . I am sure over time that the loco will pay for it self .
  BM3801 Lobster

Location: Go Hard or Go Home!
There are many factors that may or may not be involved in bringing the locomotive interstate besides costs, so its unfair to assume that its just this. Pathing, crews, availability, and marketing can all make or break a tour, so if not enough people support the tour it wont happen. Simple.

Steamrail and ARHS should be commended for organizing to bring the locomotive interstate to Victoria and attempting to try for South Australia, the fact both groups are trying for this is something to admire and I fully hope it all comes together, but they dont deserve to be criticized like they have been because information is not coming as soon as its known and they may not be able to fulfill the whole schedule as they originally planned. Knowing some of these people personally, they are some of the hardest working volunteers I know, and dont deserve to be tarnished with negative comments because people want the loco to go to them and they dont care how it gets there. Steamrail and ARHS could simply cancel the entire thing tomorrow and have the time the loco was supposed to be down with their families and doing other things they want to do. The outcry and rumors on Facebook and on here is unfair and undeserved, and the selfish attitudes people have towards others volunteering their free time to organize and run trains for the public and enthusiasts is astounding.  

Appreciate what is being offered, instead of criticizing them for what cannot be reasonably achieved. If it happens it happens, if not then thats how life goes. Begging is not going to solve anything, and trying is a waste of time.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

There are many factors that may or may not be involved in bringing the locomotive interstate besides costs, so its unfair to assume that its just this. Pathing, crews, availability, and marketing can all make or break a tour, so if not enough people support the tour it wont happen. Simple
BM3801
I like to make it clear . That I & others didn't put out flyers about tours to here and there .

I am glad that 6029 is working the rails again like I would be see any steam loco working again .

I didn't say that back in November just that the finer points needed to be worked out before informing the public .

like you said . Marketing can make or break a tour . Going by the Canberra website the tour starts in 12 weeks .

It's getting a bit late for people who need to make plans for this and that . Which means It could be a pass or a fail tour . Not everyone can be on 24 / 7 call for train buff duties .

For people who wish to have a go at me . The fire at Steamrail happened two weeks ago . Not 3 plus months ago
  ARK95 Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Well said, but it surely is going to attract a lot of hate from posters within this forum
  BM3801 Lobster

Location: Go Hard or Go Home!
Decided to purely market the Garratt trips at families. Yes there was a lot of excitement about the loco coming over, It's an expensive loco to bring over and the gunzel market just isn't there to pay for the tour we feel.                                                                                                                                                                      
They will all be relatively cheap aimed at families as stated. July is still a while away and well within the marketing brackets that we have set up.
LowndesJ515
While I understand that are people that cannot go chase/ride trains at a moments notice, the fact of the matter is that this tour, as said by LowndesJ515, is aimed at families and the general public, not the gunzels- the people in the local communities who dont travel around seeing trains as a hobby, not people that are flying from interstate to chase/ride the train. These people only need a few weeks notice, to see if they are free or not, and if they aren't free then thats life. If they miss out, there will be some who are disappointed, but most will forget about it quick enough.

Also Im sure Steamrail and ARHS are well aware of the time left till the tour, and have planned out marketing as required, as these two groups do very well. All in due course will things be revealed, so better to sit back and let those with a hand in it deal with what they have to do.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

While I understand that are people that cannot go chase/ride trains at a moments notice, the fact of the matter is that this tour, as said by LowndesJ515, is aimed at families and the general public, not the gunzels
BM3801
I would of thought that you would aim the tour at everbody .

The more notice that you give about dates will only help people from across the border who are happy to go drive across the border to watch it and go for a ride behind it .
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I am getting madder and madder at some of the tripe being written here.

I would of thought that you would aim the tour at everbody .
BIG-BEAR
Obviously you do not consider yourself to be a member of a family or the general public.


Before you continue on your patronising rants, you'd do well to consider that there are railway enthusiasts who have to plan their leave months in advance for proposed events like these. We have been waiting since November last year and for some of us it is simply not viable to simply turn up in Adelaide or Melbourne at short notice. STEAMINC in New Zealand already have their South Island grand tour dates in October and traintrips.biz in America also have posted their dates for their trips throughout the year.
And, by the way, I would be deeply offended if someone called me "Princess".
Trying to advertise something to whet the appetite of the miserable public and then not offer it is NOT good marketing. For a bona fide example, head to Coffs Harbour and drive west.
Voldemort

1. It wasn't patronising - it was bl00dy angry.
2. New Zealanders and Americans are not attempting to move a gigantic locomotive through three States and/or Territories. They are using what is already on site.  Our groups in Victoria have their normal tours planned for the year just as the foreigners have.
3. Railway enthusiasts are not a protected species. You take your chances on any advertised trip along with everybody else. You have no special rights.
4. Nothing was advertised. It was a preliminary announcement that something may happen if feasible. Advertising will commence when plans are final. . . pure common sense.

Finally; most of what will happen, and is happening is done by volunteers. Now, get off their backs, and shut up.
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
If there's one thing that Steamrail / ARHS (ACT) can take away from this thread, it's that people are passionate about this locomotive. Unfortunately, especially with railfans, our passion can sometimes blindly lead us into trouble.

People on both sides of the argument would do well to remember that.
  ssaunders Train Controller

I am getting madder and madder at some of the tripe being written here.

Obviously you do not consider yourself to be a member of a family or the general public.


1. It wasn't patronising - it was bl00dy angry.
2. New Zealanders and Americans are not attempting to move a gigantic locomotive through three States and/or Territories. They are using what is already on site.  Our groups in Victoria have their normal tours planned for the year just as the foreigners have.
3. Railway enthusiasts are not a protected species. You take your chances on any advertised trip along with everybody else. You have no special rights.
4. Nothing was advertised. It was a preliminary announcement that something may happen if feasible. Advertising will commence when plans are final. . . pure common sense.

Finally; most of what will happen, and is happening is done by volunteers. Now, get off their backs, and shut up.
Valvegear

NZ move their tour trains between the islands and the Americans certainly do run across state boarders.

Steamrail promoted a trip to SA without the involvement of the ARHS Canberra. It got as a far as being promoted in SA by Port Dock Museum but not by information from the ARHS Canberra but by Steamrail. I think you will find 6029 will run some shuttles and day trips to Seymour with a parallel run at some stage.

It was advertised that 6029 would be going to SA, advertised by Steamrail without agreement form the ARHS Canberra I would suggest hence they have back peddled. If Steamrail didn't advertise it going to SA why are people here disappointed.

Steamrail jumped the gun, now in this thread they are copping the feedback.

Let's now watch the ARHS Canberra as it is their locomotive to operate, not Steamrails. The ARHS Canberra will be the operator as they have the accreditation, Steamrail has no accreditation so will be a ticket seller.

As someone here said, that's life.

ss
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
NZ move their tour trains between the islands and the Americans certainly do run across state boarders.
"ssaunders"
So do we. Read what was written - "using what is already on site." Are the boarders anywhere near the border?

It was advertised that 6029 would be going to SA, advertised by Steamrail without agreement form the ARHS Canberra I would suggest hence they have back peddled. If Steamrail didn't advertise it going to SA why are people here disappointed.
"ssaunders"
Simply because it was not, and has not been, advertised. It was put up as a possibility. In case you're not familiar with the fact, advertising consists of telling you exactly what product you'll get, when you can have it, where it is obtainable, and how much it will cost.  
Then, you "suggest" there was no agreement. Thanks for your suggestion. Find some facts and we'll all be a bit more interested.  Has the peddler really back pedalled?

Steamrail jumped the gun, now in this thread they are copping the feedback.
"ssaunders"
Nonsense; Steamrail floated an idea.  I am not a member of Steamrail, but I cannot help becoming angry at the determination shown by some people to bag Steamrail for all they're worth.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What a mess.

Well Let's close this as you are all just point scoring against each other.

When the organisations have something concrete to post, a new thread is most welcome. Until then, let's wait.

Of course if you have the money to sponsor the trip, I am sure something could be arranged.


UPDATE:

[edit]
BTW discussion is CLOSED on this subject. Any poster who tries to reingnite it , the thread will be removed and other stuff may occur.  Railpage wil create a new thread when there is more on future  tours with this loco.

In the same vein if you have a question, PM me first.

[/edit]

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