H220 Heavy Harry - How fast could he go?

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Readers must understand woodfords being the "devils advocate" here because most are being to blinkered in thee approach and trying to minimize any discusion.

Anyway Heritage Victoria state "HEAVY HARRY LOCOMOTIVE" is as yet not listed under the heritage act but is on Victoria's state heritage list which gives it certain statutory protections

The file number for it is H2163, this states.....

(Start of quote)

What is significant?

The H Class Locomotive H220 also known as Heavy Harry, was built in 1941 and was the only one built of three H class locomotives originally planned. It was the largest and heaviest steam locomotive in the Victorian Railways fleet, the largest steam locomotive built in Australia and the heaviest non-articulated steam locomotive in the southern hemisphere.

Heavy Harry incorporated a number of innovations including conjugated lever gearing; three cylinders; distinctive twin chimneys; an all steel boiler, operating at 220psi which was the highest pressure of any locomotive operating in Australia at the time and a mechanical screw conveyor stoker with fuel distribution controlled by set of steam valves operated by the fireman in the cab. The mechanical stoker was the first to be used in Victoria. Heavy Harry's tender was designed with sufficient capacity to avoid the need for refuelling over long routes, such as Melbourne to Ararat.

Heavy Harry was withdrawn from service in 1958 as steam power was replaced by diesel electric motive power in the Victorian rail system.

How is it significant?

Heavy Harry is of historic and technical (scientific) significance to the State of Victoria.


Why is it significant?
Heavy Harry is of technical significance (scientific) for representing the peak of steam motive power technology in Victoria.

Heavy Harry is of technical significance (scientific) as the only example of its class built.

Heavy Harry is of historical significance in the history of rail transport in Victoria as the most powerful steam locomotive in the Victorian rail network.

(End of quote)

Now this does not specificly mention broad gauge,but it does mention its high power and technical acheivement. It COULD be argued then the best way to preserve this technology is by restoration to a working concern. Due to the increasing lack of BG lines the best method of preservation COULD be gauge conversion. I believe In the end for a steam loco, the hardware itself cannot really be given heritage status as all steam machinery was designed to be easy to rebuild. The reason for bringing up G42, it was in operation for twice as long as H220 and if it was to be heritage listed it could only be for the design and perfromance as almost all of the machine has been replaced, VERY little of the machine that came out from england is left. This does not mean its of any less value in most railway peoples eyes.

I am not arguing for the restoration and gauge conversion of H220 (although it WOULD be  great to see it) but for my liking the disucussion has been way to blinkered with to many assuming to many points.

In the end the BEST way to garruntee preservation of a machine is to make it operational and earning its keep. Look at Puffing Billy
a fine example on the BEST possible way of preseving machinery. If it takes gauge conversion to acheive this with H220 so be it.



woodford

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  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
"Demolition by neglect" does occur - It's just illegal for items on the VHR, including H220. However getting anyone convicted is another mattter, and that doesn't help the registered item that's now a pile of rubbish.

Anyway, 70 MPH? Were any Victorian locomotives allowed to regularly go quicker?

Rick
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
With all due respect to Heritage Victoria, that entity has a primary focus on built heritage, not mechanical marvels such as H220. There is certainly scope under the Act for a custodian to seek alterations to a heritage place or object. It could be quite easily explained that modifications would be visually undetectable to anybody but a railway expert, and with the right arguments, I believe that approvals would be granted.

The real issue still is: what is the business case to restore H220 to operational condition, and what funding agency would be prepared to take it on. The answer is: nobody, because there already an extensive portfolio of restored locos of various classes, and the only people who give a toss are railway enthusiasts. The best strategy would be to revive previous attempts to get an undercover railway museum, which is a far more important objective.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The real issue still is: what is the business case to restore H220 to operational condition, and what funding agency would be prepared to take it on. The answer is: nobody, because there already an extensive portfolio of restored locos of various classes, and the only people who give a toss are railway enthusiasts. The best strategy would be to revive previous attempts to get an undercover railway museum, which is a far more important objective.
"gippslander"
Amen, brother.
  Highrailer Assistant Commissioner

Location: Somewhere out on the track......anywhere around the country
Here is a totally hyperthetic scenario.......

One of you Gunzels or Enthusiests on here are lucky enough to win a massive jackpot in Powerball of about forty million bucks or maybe even more........It has been known to go much higher !

Questions are
A. Would you be willing to part with a substantial part of those winnings to get this loco back on the rails ?
B. Would the powers that be in charge if this loco allow it ?
C. Where could it run these days ?
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Here is a totally hyperthetic scenario.......One of you Gunzels or Enthusiests on here are lucky enough to win a massive jackpot in Powerball of about forty million bucks or maybe even more........It has been known to go much higher !Questions are
A. Would you be willing to part with a substantial part of those winnings to get this loco back on the rails ?
B. Would the powers that be in charge if this loco allow it ?
C. Where could it run these days ?
Highrailer
You can spend all that $$$ on rebuilding, but remember some rebuilt locos have been failed by something post restoration becoming a seemingly permanent problem eg the QR Beyer-Garratt only ran for a few years after costly restoration. Never mind 3830's saga as well a similar costly restorations that copped bad luck!
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Mate, if you really won that much money and really wanted to see a H-class run, you'd probably be better off building a H221. Razz
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A. Would you be willing to part with a substantial part of those winnings to get this loco back on the rails ?

B. Would the powers that be in charge if this loco allow it ?

C. Where could it run these days ?
"Highrailer"


A. No - see "B" below.

B. No.

C. It can't run anywhere these days.  In hypothetical heaven, if the North Melbourne reversing loop and North Geelong triangle were still in existence, that would be your lot. You couldn't turn it anywhere else.
  Highrailer Assistant Commissioner

Location: Somewhere out on the track......anywhere around the country
So when did the reversing loop and triangle disappear ?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
The reversing loop at North Melbourne was removed last year to make space for a high-rise development.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
This is still being talked about?

I think everyone needs to take Valvegear's word on this: H220 cannot be converted to standard gauge. It wasn't designed for it. Also, it is very unlikely that it will ever be looked at for restoration as a broad gauge locomotive - the network is rapidly shrinking for any sort of heritage operation, and there is no infrastructure in place to support the running of the H anymore. Perhaps 20 or 30 years ago there may have been a window of possibility, but that window has long since been closed. There is nowhere to run on all counts.

If you're all passionate enough about the H, why not join the ARHS and volunteer your time to care for him? I would have thought that protecting him from the elements for future generations to enjoy would have been more important than arguing over something which is impossible, and something else which is totally impractical on an internet forum.
  hidden Chief Train Controller

The reversing loop at North Melbourne was removed last year to make space for a high-rise development.
LancedDendrite
Nope.  Still there.  Just don't have direct access from the flyover.

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