Pakenham Passengers barred from VLINE

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I agree with that. And me and my partner will soon be buying a house (not in Pakenham, somewhere close) but with the market the way it is  right now we're waiting.

mrfatman
That's your choice. Don't move out to Pakenham to save some money, and then complain about the distance from the CBD, that's your choice.

Thumping public transport prices all the way up to remove subsidy will only result in moving a large percentage of commuters from public transport to private cars, putting further stress on our already congested roads. This fact would mean it would be political suicide.

Seriously, If you want a friendly response upon arriving at a new forum, maybe you would be more successful if you didn't open up with what is essentially a massive whinge and moan about mean old V/Line.

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  mrfatman Station Master

That's your choice. Don't move out to Pakenham to save some money, and then complain about the distance from the CBD, that's your choice.

Thumping public transport prices all the way up to remove subsidy will only result in moving a large percentage of commuters from public transport to private cars, putting further stress on our already congested roads. This fact would mean it would be political suicide.

Seriously, If you want a friendly response upon arriving at a new forum, maybe you would be more successful if you didn't open up with what is essentially a massive whinge and moan about mean old V/Line.

Welcome to Railpage.
Gman_86
Haha. Whatever. It is economic fact that subsidies harm the rail industry. Operating costs should be 100% recovered or the service simply not  run.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Haha. Whatever. It is economic fact that subsidies harm the rail industry. Operating costs should be 100% recovered or the service simply not  run.
mrfatman
Good luck with that.

There is more to reality than economic fact. You would do well to remember that.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Haha. Whatever. It is economic fact that subsidies harm the rail industry. Operating costs should be 100% recovered or the service simply not  run.
"mrfatman"

Interesting. As someone studying economics, care to substantiate your statement " subsidies harm the rail industry". Indeed, do you even understand the role of a subsidy,in economic terms,  or are just reciting something that you read somewhere that makes you feel like your educated?
  mrfatman Station Master

Interesting. As someone studying economics, care to substantiate your statement " subsidies harm the rail industry". Indeed, do you even understand the role of a subsidy,in economic terms,  or are just reciting something that you read somewhere that makes you feel like your educated?
seb2351
You should know that government intervention harms all industries and the market always produces the best possible outcome.

Pakenham passengers kicked off regional trains is a classic example of soviet style communist rationing gone wrong.

In a true market system the regional operator would be competing for our business as increased demand would increase profits.

Subsidies only result in entrenchment of inefficient processes, while competition drives innovation. If our rail was privately run, it would be world class. How can you expect a private operator to run METRO like services out to Pakenham ? The situation is absurd. It should never have gone past Dandenong.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I am amazed that I come back several hours later and you are all still arguing the point with this idiot. Ignore him, he is a one trick whinger and will go away.
  mrfatman Station Master

I am amazed that I come back several hours later and you are all still arguing the point with this idiot. Ignore him, he is a one trick whinger and will go away.
TheBlacksmith
I am no whinger. I am a do'er. I am simply pointing out a very bad decision made by PT Vic.

I am getting myself out of Pakenham ASAP and the country whingers can enjoy their 2-3 hour commute with one hour train frequency and feeling good about themselves for making the lives of others harder than they need to be. Bunch of pricks. I'll make sure to spit on them any chance I get.
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

Seriously you need to go to other parts of the network with a worse service before you can complain. Pakenham is nearly 60km from the city and only takes 75mins maybe head to Hurstbridge which is 38kms and takes close to 70 mins. Maybe head to Altona, Williamstown or Alamein where you have to change trains.  Boo Hoo you don't get a V/Line train.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
You should know that government intervention harms all industries and the market always produces the best possible outcome.

Pakenham passengers kicked off regional trains is a classic example of soviet style communist rationing gone wrong.

In a true market system the regional operator would be competing for our business as increased demand would increase profits.

Subsidies only result in entrenchment of inefficient processes, while competition drives innovation. If our rail was privately run, it would be world class. How can you expect a private operator to run METRO like services out to Pakenham ? The situation is absurd. It should never have gone past Dandenong.
mrfatman
From PTV: "As mentioned during our telephone conversation today, the proposed pick up and set down restrictions ([color=#1155cc][size=2][font=arial, sans-serif][color=blue][size=2][font=Arial]http://ptv.vic.gov.au/news-and-events/news/v-line-pick-up-and-set-down-rules-made-consistent[/font][/size][/color][/font][/size][/color]) will not be enforced as of 21 June as we review the policy. PTV encourages all customers travelling towards Melbourne from either Sunbury or Pakenham to use Metro services.

Any changes to ticketing policy will be made available on our website prior to being implemented. "
Just call trains in Victoria PTV trains or it old name of Vicrail! or even just copy Queensland (they call their train Queensland Rail) - so we just call you trains as Victoria Railways Wink - Just merge V/Line trains with Metro trains and call it Victoria Railways Smile.
it unreserved service - just let anyone on the train if they have a valid myki or fare.
  mrfatman Station Master

Seriously you need to go to other parts of the network with a worse service before you can complain. Pakenham is nearly 60km from the city and only takes 75mins maybe head to Hurstbridge which is 38kms and takes close to 70 mins. Maybe head to Altona, Williamstown or Alamein where you have to change trains.  Boo Hoo you don't get a V/Line train.
torrens5022
Mate don't care. Going to move closer. Enjoy your "can't do" attitude and smeg train services because it will NEVER get better.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Could someone please tell me if there is any logical, I MEAN LOGICAL, reason for this change ? Based on facts ? Figures ? Efficiency of the rail system ? Why have they done this ? What is the benefit ?
mrfatman

To win votes from whining long-distance Vline commuters.

It stems from this:

On another note I think that Gippsland people want to be seen as better than outer suburbanites and therefore want inner regional (dirty outer suburbanites, whatever) on "their trains". That is fairly obvious.
mrfatman



People travelling further out have the right to comfort due to the distances they travel .
Crossover

So you think Pakenham users should have a crummy all stops train with hideous seating whilst places just down the line have a comfortable express service?

The real issue is a lack of outer suburban express services, which will never be solved at this rate given there is no plan for quadruplication as yet.


Cardinia Road should be METRO. Make Pakenham station VLINE. Problem solved.
mrfatman

This is not the solution either.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Us city dwellers should NOT be subsidising people who chose to live out it whoop whoop and work in the city. Country and City folk should 100% pay the full cost of their journey. Why should rail users (especially from the country) get all of this money while people who drive cares pay the full cost ?
mrfatman
This is very wrong.

Vline is heavily subsidised, but Pakenham is one of the most highly subsidised suburban locations - you both should be paying much more.


Thumping public transport prices all the way up to remove subsidy will only result in moving a large percentage of commuters from public transport to private cars, putting further stress on our already congested roads.
gman_86

Also wrong.

Rail fares are a minuscule fraction of driving costs - raising to reasonable levels is unlikely to see much shift because price elasticities are low.

The daily periodical rate is $4.62 for zone1&2 - driving from Pakenham to the CBD would cost $20-25 in operating costs alone (+parking, +depreciation, etc.).


In other news the restrictions at Sunbury have been dumped at least until the end of the year.

  stu1818 Junior Train Controller

Location: Longwarry, Victoria
I just drove to Nar Nar Goon and back, it will take 15 minutes each way, so an extra 5 minutes drive for me. Not a big deal at all.
mrfatman
Then you have the cost of fuel for your car to Nar Nar Goon, plus wear and tear on said vehicle, From Pakenham to the city full fare daily cost $7.52
Vline service from Nar Nar Goon to city full fare daily depending on peak or off peak fare

Peak fare $20.80
Off Peak fare $14.56

At the moment, a passenger getting on the first Vline service through Pakenham at 5.49am gets a free trip into the city as the early bird applies, a passenger travelling from Nar Nar goon will pay $10.40

Pakenham passengers catching those vline services into the city before 7am will pay $3.76 per day to travel in comfort as you call it to the city whilst country passengers (Traralgon/Bairnsdale) to Nar Nar Goon pay for you to sit in comfort with the extra cost of country travel.
Then at the end of the day for the return leg of the journey, passengers getting on from Clayton onwards (sometimes as early as Caulfield) will have standing room or sit on the floor until YOU get out of your seat at Pakenham so they can sit down to go home in a seat they have paid for with their country price
  mrfatman Station Master

Then you have the cost of fuel for your car to Nar Nar Goon, plus wear and tear on said vehicle, From Pakenham to the city full fare daily cost $7.52
Vline service from Nar Nar Goon to city full fare daily depending on peak or off peak fare

Peak fare $20.80
Off Peak fare $14.56

At the moment, a passenger getting on the first Vline service through Pakenham at 5.49am gets a free trip into the city as the early bird applies, a passenger travelling from Nar Nar goon will pay $10.40

Pakenham passengers catching those vline services into the city before 7am will pay $3.76 per day to travel in comfort as you call it to the city whilst country passengers (Traralgon/Bairnsdale) to Nar Nar Goon pay for you to sit in comfort with the extra cost of country travel.
Then at the end of the day for the return leg of the journey, passengers getting on from Clayton onwards (sometimes as early as Caulfield) will have standing room or sit on the floor until YOU get out of your seat at Pakenham so they can sit down to go home in a seat they have paid for with their country price
stu1818
Get off the grass. You buy a pass. Works out to about 8 bucks a day for vline.

We Pakenham folk currently stand for 80% of a city journey. Even with Pakenham passengers you have a much better chance of sitting on the VLINE than you ever do on METRO.

Anyway, in 3 months of commuting I've only once seen people stand on the VLINE and those were kids who wanted to stay as a group and socialise and people who wouldn't take the vacant seats.

Even then I got a seat after Dandenong.
  mrfatman Station Master

This is very wrong.

Vline is heavily subsidised, but Pakenham is one of the most highly subsidised suburban locations - you both should be paying much more.



Also wrong.

Rail fares are a minuscule fraction of driving costs - raising to reasonable levels is unlikely to see much shift because price elasticities are low.

The daily periodical rate is $4.62 for zone1&2 - driving from Pakenham to the CBD would cost $20-25 in operating costs alone (+parking, +depreciation, etc.).


In other news the restrictions at Sunbury have been dumped at least until the end of the year.

ZH836301
Yes. Pakenham is subsidised too. That needs to stop as well. I am against all subsidies. All persons should pay full price for their journeys.

The country people are even more subsidised and they got pissy because someone else also has something good. Not a good situation. With attitudes like that you will never fix the line.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
^That's a relieving level of honesty.

If you'll also concede users from Dandenong-Pakenham and Cranbourne (not just Pakenham) all require the same service (fast, comfortable) then we are in complete agreeance (not a popular view around here where people seem to think money grows on trees and any place with wires should get a horrid, slow stopping service).  

The service type that adequately serves inner areas,  being high frequency, high capacity, limited seating, cannot hope to provide a service suitable for distant outer suburban areas (beyond Broadmeadows, Sunshine, Blackburn, Dandenong, Mentone) which is less frequent, but with more seating and faster journey times.  The service provided to a place like Pakenham has more in common with the service type to Warragul than to inner areas like Oakleigh.

Getting outer suburban and Vline users to pay the true cost of travel makes the necessary improvements, providing quadruplication to Dandenong, economically viable (as well as allowing fairer prices for short journeys).

in a seat they have paid for with their country price
stu1818
Based on Vline's revenue against expenditure they've only paid for a quarter of a seat.

Vline users don't pay enough to claim they have the right to a seat over outer suburban users.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
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