Shuttle train could ferry commuters between Geelong and Werribee to cover Regional Rail Link gap

 

News article: Shuttle train could ferry commuters between Geelong and Werribee to cover Regional Rail Link gap

WYNDHAM City Council is pushing for a shuttle train service between Werribee and Geelong, to cover the gap created by the Regional Rail Link.

  Bethungra Train Controller

WYNDHAM City Council is pushing for a shuttle train service between Werribee and Geelong, to cover the gap created by the Regional Rail Link.
Shuttle train could ferry commuters between Geelong and Werribee to cover Regional Rail Link gap


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Sensible to push for this change. Anyone know how much it would cost for the service and would it be diesel or electric?

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  712M Chief Commissioner

Much more efficient to extend the Werribee Line through to Wyndham Vale and Sunshine so that Tarneit and WV become restricted stops.
  M636C Minister for Railways

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Sensible to push for this change. Anyone know how much it would cost for the service and would it be diesel or electric?
Bethungra
Werribee is the end of electrification on the Geelong line.

All services between Werribee and Geelong are (or were) diesel.

The problem is that the Geelong to Melbourne trains bypass Werribee.

There are still frequent electric services between Melbourne and Werribee but no direct services to Geelong from Werribee itself.

M636C
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
It's a waste of DMUs that are sorely needed to keep up with booming post-RRL patronage!

I have travelled on the 190 bus that links up Wyndham Vale and Werribee Stations - it's a reasonably short journey and the 20-minute all-day timetable is pretty decent.


In the longer term, extension of Werribee metro services to Wyndham Vale should be on the cards, along with additional stabling in that area. Until then the 190 shuttle bus will be sufficient.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
^This.

Can't afford to tie up trains carting around air when the system is already stretched.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The extension of the Werribee spark line to Tarneit and Wyndham Vale was in the original scope for the RRL project.

It was deleted due to cost overruns.  Then the whole project was delivered about $190 million under budget!

Would the $190 million be handy to put the Wyndham Vale extension back in?  Too right it would.  However, the money has gone into the Treasury coffers, never to return.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The reality is V/Line are running the push-pull set through there on a regular basis so the signal contacts don't become rusty.

V/Line originally wanted to run the Warrnambool's on the old direct line via Werribee in perpetuity to keep the signals in order, however METRO apparently wouldn't have any of it...hence the empty push-pull set does on a regular basis.

Mike.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Surely the real answer is to electrify to Geelong.

Some Siemens trains (with fewer doors) could then have more comfortable seats and a disabled toilet fitted and could run to and from Geelong via Newport, taking pressure off the Velocities.

They could be run by V/Line or Metro, whoever wants to....

M636C
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Youd need a comeng guarantee 2 get people to get metro to geelong
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Surely the real answer is to electrify to Geelong.
M636C
Any electrification to Geelong would be along the RRL line, in order to maintain as much separation as possible of Metro and V/line services. PTV's plan is to up the frequency of Werribee line services to deal with overcrowding (and hopefully finally get around to fixing the Altona Loop).

Wyndham Vale is as close as Metro sparks will go, I'd wager. That would involve a new flyover on the Melbourne side of West Werribee Junction and make use of the turnaround tracks that are used for short-starting Wyndham Vale V/line services.

There is another way though...
There's provision for 3 trains per hour as 'short starter' services from Wyndham Vale via RRL in PTV's network development plan. If you get that new flyover built at West Werribee, you could terminate those short starter services at Werribee instead - although you'd then have to completely rebuild Werribee Station with another platform to accomodate that service. No electrification required in the shorter term.

Eventually you could get an electrified 'orbital' service running Southern Cross-Sunshine-Werribee-Footscray - not a full orbital, because it would be essentially a loop around service. But it's possible - just barely. RRL is planned to have 18 trains per hour in peak - 9 to Waurn Ponds/Geelong, 3 to Wyndham Vale, 3 to Ballarat, 3 to Bendigo. Not much room for growth there.

That's going to cost lots of money for a service with exactly the same frequency as the existing 190 bus though!

Some Siemens trains (with fewer doors) could then have more comfortable seats and a disabled toilet fitted and could run to and from Geelong via Newport, taking pressure off the Velocities.
M636C

The Siemens EMU would make a decent template for an electric interurban, yes - but so would a modified Adelaide 4000 class, or the TfNSW V set replacement EMU, or any of the wide variety of off-the-shelf European interurban EMU designs.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I noticed by actually reading the above linked article that this is a proposal from the Wyndham City Council, do they intend on funding it? otherwise it's nothing but hot air.

Any electrification of the Geelong line would involve the entire length from Southern Cross via Sunshine, any rail service to operate between Werribee station and Geelong/ Lara/ Little River stations would take away precious resources from more important routes.
  M636C Minister for Railways

The Siemens EMU would make a decent template for an electric interurban, yes - but so would a modified Adelaide 4000 class, or the TfNSW V set replacement EMU, or any of the wide variety of off-the-shelf European interurban EMU designs.
LancedDendrite

But the Siemens are already there and are becoming more non-standard as each new Xtrapolis arrives.... not to mention high capacity trains.

Just fit new seats...

Nobody will miss a dozen of them from suburban service.

Run as limited stop services via Newport, particularly in the off peak, even to Werribee.

The customers would be so pleased they wouldn't notice that the Geelong service has deteriorated.

Commuters who previously caught Velocities to Melbourne from Werribee would be impressed.

Alternatively, just replace the diesel engines on Velocity cars with 1500 volt motors, driving through the existiing Voith transmission. A fairly simple control system would work.

M636C
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
It's a waste of DMUs that are sorely needed to keep up with booming post-RRL patronage!

I have travelled on the 190 bus that links up Wyndham Vale and Werribee Stations - it's a reasonably short journey and the 20-minute all-day timetable is pretty decent.


In the longer term, extension of Werribee metro services to Wyndham Vale should be on the cards, along with additional stabling in that area. Until then the 190 shuttle bus will be sufficient.
LancedDendrite
If the 190 Bus gets too slow between Wyndham Vale and Werribee, a new bus route could be developed from Lara Station and Werribee Station (maybe a separate Little River service too)

As the a bus would more or less get a clear up to 100 km/h run on the M1, easy access Into Werribee.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Any of the wide variety of off-the-shelf European interurban EMU designs.
LancedDendrite
You are referring to the double deck type with an electric locomotive at one end and a driving cab at the other, rated at maximum operating speed of 160 km/h

Though their not really an EMU as they are a fixed unit.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
You are referring to the double deck type with an electric locomotive at one end and a driving cab at the other, rated at maximum operating speed of 160 km/h

Though their not really an EMU as they are a fixed unit.
Nightfire
No, I am referring to EMUs such as the Stadler FLIRT/KISS, Siemens Desiro, Bombardier TWINDEXX, Alstom Coradia and so on. Anything that can do up to 180-200kph would do fine for the Geelong line given station spacings and EMU acceleration profiles.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
No, I am referring to EMUs such as the Stadler FLIRT/KISS, Siemens Desiro, Bombardier TWINDEXX, Alstom Coradia and so on. Anything that can do up to 180-200kph would do fine for the Geelong line given station spacings and EMU acceleration profiles.
LancedDendrite
As the ones Deutsche Bahn Regio use
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
No, I am referring to EMUs such as the Stadler FLIRT/KISS, Siemens Desiro, Bombardier TWINDEXX, Alstom Coradia and so on. Anything that can do up to 180-200kph would do fine for the Geelong line given station spacings and EMU acceleration profiles.
LancedDendrite
Moving further into foamy territory, would a lot of work need to be done regarding signalling and level crossings to allow 200km/h running on the Geelong line?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Signalling - maybe. Level crossings - definitely, most likely complete grade separation.

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