End of an Era

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I don't think its as simple as some second-hand DMU's from the UK.
don_dunstan
No, that can only deal with half of the issue.

A leaner and meaner operator addressing the issue of costs will become competitive even if your other 'three fronts' see no improvements.

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
A leaner and meaner operator addressing the issue of costs will become competitive even if your other 'three fronts' see no improvements.
justapassenger
Yeah, maybe -

V/line are already operating some of their services on standard gauge but we're yet to see if the respective state governments are interested in plunging money into something like that. There were some calculations on another thread somewhere about the basic cost. Even if you were to reduce that cost by opting for used UK DMU's I still think a figure of $10-20 million to provide a basic operational DMU 2-3 sets is probably about right; a special V/locity order maybe twice that.

Ultimately the political will combined with an actual potential market of users would need to be present.

I still haven't been able to find anything in the mainstream media about this announcement; nor has there been any releases from any government about the announcement yet - not that I've found anyway. If somebody finds something then by all means please post it here to share - I'm interested in how the story will be spun.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

I still haven't been able to find anything in the mainstream media about this announcement; nor has there been any releases from any government about the announcement yet - not that I've found anyway. If somebody finds something then by all means please post it here to share - I'm interested in how the story will be spun.
don_dunstan

I know you give me no credibility for what I say...so be it...that's your call.

But wait 4 months. Why would the media report on something that MIGHT happen in 4 months time Question

Sheesh Exclamation
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know you give me no credibility for what I say...so be it...that's your call.
The Vinelander
You're right - I place absolutely no credibility in anything you say.

But wait 4 months. Why would the media report on something that MIGHT happen in 4 months time Question
The Vinelander
Again with this delusion.

Let me repeat what happened on the last page because you obviously didn't read it - or if you did you just ignored it because it didn't fit in with your delusional schema of how the world operates: Great Southern Railway have announced that the Overland passenger train between Melbourne and Adelaide will finish for all time in December this year. Neither the South Australian nor the Victorian government have rushed to correct them, nor have they announced a replacement operator, nor have they announced that they will use a government train provider (the only one left being V/line) to take over the service.

If (and it's a very big if) your scenario is correct and the respective state governments are blackmailed into coming up with yet more funding for this dog of a service - pensioners will not be getting a meaningful discount so that's probably half the number of passengers who used that train gone to other modes. So all it will do is continue to prolong the agonising slow death that this train has endured since the airlines were deregulated in the early 1990's... what a great use of taxpayers money that will be! Especially for South Australia, who are even more flat broke than we are.

So to summarise:
  • Rolling stock and transit times nowhere near acceptable modern standards.
  • Huge subsidies of nearly $100 per passenger required to keep it going last time and the next round of funding won't even allow pensioners to get meaningful discounts; it will probably need $200 per passenger for the next round of money. At those prices we could probably fly everyone business class and still have money to spare Wink  
  • Twice a week so that it's completely useless for people along the route to rely on it.

Actually, you've convinced me. We only spent a few million last time - lets give GSR double that amount so they can run it seven days like they used to!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Sadly, Vinelander is partly right: GSR are now having a red hot go at extorting more money out of the SA/Victorian governments to keep the service as-is, as reported in the Advertiser a few hours ago - but the article seemed to talk down any reasonable expectation of a resolution.

This is NOT a good thing. As I outlined above the - sooner that olde worlde GSR service dies the sooner something better MIGHT come along.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

GSR are now having a red hot go at extorting more money out of the SA/Victorian governments to keep the service as-is, as reported in the Advertiser a few hours ago - but the article seemed to talk down any reasonable expectation of a resolution.
don_dunstan
That assumes the GSR rep quoted in the story was actually telling the truth. They were certainly lying when they said the subsidy was only $300,000 so it is logical that they also lied about trying to chase it.

If it were more newsworthy, the media would follow it up by chasing down the various companies which hold contracts with GSR (and therefore having a vested interest in the service continuing) for various services. But it's not so they won't.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Sadly, Vinelander is partly right: GSR are now having a red hot go at extorting more money out of the SA/Victorian governments to keep the service as-is, as reported in the Advertiser a few hours ago - but the article seemed to talk down any reasonable expectation of a resolution.

This is NOT a good thing. As I outlined above the - sooner that olde worlde GSR service dies the sooner something better MIGHT come along.
don_dunstan
If there was any hope from GSR that 'negotiations' would have a fruitful outcome, then why have they deleted the timetables beyond 29th December? why have they blocked the overland after that date from their booking system?
I seriously doubt that the SA Gov will do a back flip on subsidies.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
That assumes the GSR rep quoted in the story was actually telling the truth. They were certainly lying when they said the subsidy was only $300,000 so it is logical that they also lied about trying to chase it.

If it were more newsworthy, the media would follow it up by chasing down the various companies which hold contracts with GSR (and therefore having a vested interest in the service continuing) for various services. But it's not so they won't.
justapassenger
Unfortunately the SA govt didn't deny that they were 'in talks' with GSR - but the Victorian govt had nothing to say.

Also remember their media release recently projecting greatly reduced Ghan and Indian-Pacific numbers - hence the large service cuts. They must have their own projections of the Overland that they're not discussing publicly but no doubt it will be down a long way particularly with the Commonwealth pensioner subsidies finishing.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
If it were more newsworthy, the media would follow it up by chasing down the various companies which hold contracts with GSR (and therefore having a vested interest in the service continuing) for various services. But it's not so they won't.
justapassenger
You're so tough when you talk dirty - it turns me on Razz
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Start the once a week Ghan from Melbourne, both IP and Ghan cross paths heading west in Adelaide at the same time and VV heading east.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I believe that they have tried - and failed - with that one before.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I believe that they have tried - and failed - with that one before.
don_dunstan
True, with no Overland and only one Ghan and IP a week, would this change the outcome this time?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
True, with no Overland and only one Ghan and IP a week, would this change the outcome this time?
RTT_Rules
I think there were several combinations tried at various times in the 1990's and early 2000's - the true gunzels among us may be able to recount when and where they went. But yeah, that multi-city cruise type model hasn't worked before, I think it's safe to assume it still won't work.
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
GSR are now having a red hot go at extorting more money out of the SA/Victorian governments to keep the service as-is, as reported in the Advertiser a few hours ago - but the article seemed to talk down any reasonable expectation of a resolution.
That assumes the GSR rep quoted in the story was actually telling the truth. They were certainly lying when they said the subsidy was only $300,000 so it is logical that they also lied about trying to chase it.

If it were more newsworthy, the media would follow it up by chasing down the various companies which hold contracts with GSR (and therefore having a vested interest in the service continuing) for various services. But it's not so they won't.
justapassenger
WoW,

That is an interesting statement.... I trust that you have the proof. Otherwise, it may be prudent of you to brush up on the law around defamation...

Just saying......

Now back to trains....

SmileSmileSmile
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
A reprieve by the looks; South Australia Government to provide $1 million to support Great Southern Rail Overland service
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
A reprieve by the looks; South Australia Government to provide $1 million to support Great Southern Rail Overland service
nscaler69
Finally a sensible government action


Oh wait let me check the calender, it ain't april 1st again is it?? Shocked
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Cancel the fat lady - she doesn't need to sing just yet!!!

A modicum of common sense and cash funding.  Two things which seldom seem to be found on the modern railways let alone hand in hand.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I knew there would be a catch! Rolling Eyes

Channel 9 News in Adelaide said the $1m grant is over 3 years and subject to the Victoria Government also contributing a similar amount.
They reported that GSR claimed they were currently "in negotiations" with the Victorian Gov.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Money would have been better used saving the Mallee Lines Razz
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I knew there would be a catch! Rolling Eyes

Channel 9 News in Adelaide said the $1m grant is over 3 years and subject to the Victoria Government also contributing a similar amount.
They reported that GSR claimed they were currently "in negotiations" with the Victorian Gov.
Pressman
As a Victorian I sincerely hope our government doesn't tip in any money to sustain this dinosaur train - that money would be much better spent improving V/line services elsewhere.

Speaking of which, V/line used to pay GSR to keep 30-odd seats aside on the Overland for country Victorian passengers but if there's no more Red Class (as they're doing with the other trains) then they won't be able to do that any longer.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
The Victorian Gummint already pays a modest share and I suspect will continue to do so.  They do, after all, wish to retain the votes of those in the Grampians Region who are quite vocal in their demands for more, not less, in the way of regional rail service to their area.  

Of course if the overdue could run either via Geelong itself (not a derelict platform on the industrial outskirts) or via Ballarat - but that's another story Wink
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I still haven't been able to find anything in the mainstream media about this announcement; nor has there been any releases from any government about the announcement yet - not that I've found anyway. If somebody finds something then by all means please post it here to share - I'm interested in how the story will be spun.don_dunstan
I know you give me no credibility for what I say...so be it...that's your call.

But wait 4 months. Why would the media report on something that MIGHT happen in 4 months time https://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_question.gif

Sheesh https://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif

Note: I didn't have to wait 4 months for the announcement...barely 4 days....Laughing
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Victorian Gummint already pays a modest share and I suspect will continue to do so.  They do, after all, wish to retain the votes of those in the Grampians Region who are quite vocal in their demands for more, not less, in the way of regional rail service to their area.  
Gwiwer

Note to Gwiwer...

The Andrews Victorian Labor government doesn't hold an electorate west of Ballarat, therefore your comments are flawed.

Mike.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
....
Note: I didn't have to wait 4 months for the announcement...barely 4 days....Laughing
The Vinelander
You don't read things properly, they're still waiting for the GSR team to extort the same amount of money out of Dan Andrews; it's not a fait accompli. I'm hoping that the Victorian government sees through this ridiculous folly and says 'no'.

And incidentally do you know what you're actually barracking for here? A crusty old tourist train that won't have economy class OR concession fares any longer so it will be at least whopping $150 each way. $150 to sit on a dilapidated old train for eleven and a half hours eating microwave pies - four hours more than driving.

Who on earth is going to want to use that service?

Do you really think this is a good use of taxpayer money keeping this thing going until it consists of three or less carriages twice a week? And does anyone here really think that the people of Horsham are crying out for a train that comes twice a week that they have to pay over a hundred bucks to travel in either direction on? From January it will be a really, really expensive sitting-up train service - well out of the reach of ordinary travellers.

And yet people like you insist that the preservation of this train is somehow a good thing.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
....
Note: I didn't have to wait 4 months for the announcement...barely 4 days....Laughing
You don't read things properly, they're still waiting for the GSR team to extort the same amount of money out of Dan Andrews; it's not a fait accompli. I'm hoping that the Victorian government sees through this ridiculous folly and says 'no'.

And incidentally do you know what you're actually barracking for here? A crusty old tourist train that won't have economy class OR concession fares any longer so it will be at least whopping $150 each way. $150 to sit on a dilapidated old train for eleven and a half hours eating microwave pies - four hours more than driving.

Who on earth is going to want to use that service?

Do you really think this is a good use of taxpayer money keeping this thing going until it consists of three or less carriages twice a week? And does anyone here really think that the people of Horsham are crying out for a train that comes twice a week that they have to pay over a hundred bucks to travel in either direction on? From January it will be a really, really expensive sitting-up train service - well out of the reach of ordinary travellers.

And yet people like you insist that the preservation of this train is somehow a good thing.


Again, people, such as yourself who don't see an opportunity for growth of a service, but to cut it down because it's not paying in their bean-counter minds, and the rolling stock is old.

Agreed, the train should operate daily...and no doubt that will come into the consideration of the GSR talks with the Victorian government.

Concessions are withdrawn you say...from a federal government that has a little more than a year to run before it too, in all likelihood will be axed.

Before you pass judgement on the catering on the train, I travelled on The Overland last Saturday to Ararat and purchased food from the cafeteria car...may I ask when you last travelled on it Question

May I also suggest you take off your blinkers, swallow your bile, and accept your defeat graciously...and we can continue this discussion some time in 2018.

Mike.

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