SA to keep Overland running

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

This could be the perfect time to return regional passenger rail to the people of SA!
One major problem, the South Australian Government Is broke !
Nightfire
And if they were not, there are many areas which would be much more worthy of the expenditure than playing at trains.

Sponsored advertisement

  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Well a regional rail service to Whyalla, Broken Hill and Bordertown would be feasible now that GSR don't service those places with standard seats.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
No. Have to agree with JAP here, better to focus on other things rather than bring back public passenger rail services to regional SA.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Okay Heath, crack open your piggy bank and buy yourself a train set to run it with.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I do have a business plan from year 10 business studies, I need about 1 million dollars to return regional rail to the people of SA.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I do have a business plan from year 10 business studies, I need about 1 million dollars to return regional rail to the people of SA.
Heath Loxton
I own a startup business, and I am telling you now you will need more than $1m.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Never, ever, try and get inside the head of a female.

I would bet most that don't catch the Overland are not so much expecting a TGV, but likely, simply NOT WANTING the Overland...

I certainly do not expect the TGV between Adelaide and Melbourne, but equally that does not imply I ought to accept, or even embrace the Overland instead. I went to a state high school that was fortunate enough to generally have a quite a high socio-economic group of students/families, the student canteen was very, very good. Sitting on the Overland for ten hours eating basically my high school lunch is just not the way I will ever choose to get to Melbourne.

For me, I'd rather drop my friends wanting the train off, go home finish packing, head to airport, do lunch in the Qantas club, need nothing more than a can of Coke on the 1 hour flight, land, check in to my hotel, shower, change, go out to dinner to somewhere in Lygon Street and then head back to Melbourne city and meet my friends still arriving by train.

Very early dinner in Lygon seeing the train arrives at Southern Cross at 18:50 and is often early.

I've never tried to get into the head of a female and thankfully never will...Wink

BTW the announcement on the train says the train averages 80KPH for its journey which isn't slow by Australian standards and leads me to think there are many armchair posters in this thread who've never or rarely ever travelled on the Overland.

Mike.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Heath, there's plenty of dreamy foaming gunzels out there who would love to reinstate trains where they once ran but the issue is that the potential market for these trains has already been captured by air travel, bus or private motor vehicle. Like the present thread about the Overland, the declining use of the service is NOT an indicator of success - it's showing that people prefer other modes of transport.

As you get older you will come to realise that it's impossible to convert people to your way of thinking (most people don't have the romantic attachment to trains that most people do in this forum) and that you need to be more realistic about what can be achieved - for example, better services in metro Adelaide where the majority of South Australia actually lives - and votes. I think the argument about regional rail services in South Australia was lost about 30 or 40 years ago; why not join an on-line local public transport users group and try to help campaign for better services locally in Adelaide rather than think about bringing back rail services to country towns that don't really want them?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
BTW the announcement on the train says the train averages 80KPH for its journey which isn't slow by Australian standards and leads me to think there are many armchair posters in this thread who've never or rarely ever travelled on the Overland.

Mike.
The Vinelander
80km/h average is still way too slow, why do you say this like it's somehow a positive?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The Overland runs slower than 80 km/h average anyway.

The new crossing loops at Lara and Loverly Banks were meant to speed up the schedule, but never filtered through.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Overland runs slower than 80 km/h average anyway.

The new crossing loops at Lara and Lovely Banks were meant to speed up the schedule, but never filtered through.
Nightfire

So the announcement on-board the train is at best fudging the truth or at worst an outright lie Question

Whenever I've travelled on the Overland, it hasn't needed to cross anything at these locations as there was no cross
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
BTW the announcement on the train says the train averages 80KPH for its journey which isn't slow by Australian standards and leads me to think there are many armchair posters in this thread who've never or rarely ever travelled on the Overland.

Mike.
80km/h average is still way too slow, why do you say this like it's somehow a positive?
don_dunstan
It may seem strange, but the average is about right, even though you have trouble keeping up with the Overland along the dukes hwy between Tailem Bend and Bordertown.

The Ghan also averages about 80kph over it's journey (well that was the average before the lastest stop overs!)
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The Saturday Westbound service was 35 minutes quicker than the Weekday services, as It departed Melbourne at 0840 as oppose to 0805.

The time was lost between Manor and Gheringhap according to the timetable In the GSR book.

A timetable change sore all services depart at 0805 (extra padding In the timetable ?)
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It may seem strange, but the average is about right, even though you have trouble keeping up with the Overland along the dukes hwy between Tailem Bend and Bordertown.

The Ghan also averages about 80kph over it's journey (well that was the average before the lastest stop overs!)
Pressman
Painfully slow; if you were trying to catch it from Horsham to Melbourne it's five hours.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
80 KMH is slow, it is almost 50 MPH. The SA state limit on a roadway is 110 KMH or 68.3 MPH. So it is faster by car or bus etc than the actual train. Yes I know it said average speed as the train goes faster on the SA side of the border in most places. But just pointing out that metric speeds are not as fast as you think they are!
  vinelander Junior Train Controller

80km isn't a bad average when you consider the train hardly gets above 65km between Belair and Murray Bridge. Of course everyone would love to have a maglev between Adelaide and Melb but it isn't going to happen. I don't know if it's possible to increase the speed through the Adelaide Hills. Best to attempt increase consistent speed between Ararat and Southern Cross. I don't pretend to know how this might be achieved.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Saturday Westbound service was 35 minutes quicker than the Weekday services, as It departed Melbourne at 0840 as oppose to 0805.

The time was lost between Manor and Gheringhap according to the timetable In the GSR book.

A timetable change sore all services depart at 0805 (extra padding In the timetable ?)
Nightfire


Consistency in the timetabling...
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
For 3 services a week !

Oops sorry only 2 now.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
For 3 services a week !

Oops sorry only 2 now.
Nightfire
There is no case for wasting public money to subsidize such a travesty of a service. The Overland should be terminated forthwith. For most of the journey the scenery is boring and the journey tediously slow.

I maintain, however, that if a real service were to be provided the patronage would come. Good as the bus services are, a rail car multiple unit could be both faster and very much safer.

Decent layback seating with leg room and head rests (as in almost all European trains) on daily overnight trains would be more than competitive. V-Line trains could run via the sizeable cities of Ballarat and Geelong from Platform 9 in Adelaide to and from Spencer Street via a modification of the Western Victorian standardisation scheme at present underway and a short standard gauge line from near the Gaol loop on the northern side of the electrified lines.

Future occurrences of the traffic chaos during the recent football semi finals, with the airways racking up their prices to exorbitant levels and dozens of carloads driving for long hours on single lane roads, will invite inevitable tragedies caused by driver fatigue, drug use or inattention.

I ask again. How much longer will Australian rail services be among the worst in the world? I have driven many times to and from Melbourne since there was only the winding Mount Barker Road via the Devil's Elbow and a single lane of bitumen in a macadamized road for many miles as soon as I passed into Victoria, and I also have very many times enjoyed the comfort of an overnight Overland service which we took for granted.

The potential patronage is there. Airways may be fast airport to airport, but they are uncomfortable for most passengers, with significant on-ground lengthy and quite costly access inconveniences. They are also subject to varying prices rather than having reasonable budgetable fares. Trains deliver their passengers to city centres and suburban and country transport hubs.

Provide the services and they will be used.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland


I maintain, however, that if a real service were to be provided the patronage would come. Good as the bus services are, a rail car multiple unit could be both faster and very much safer.

Decent layback seating with leg room and head rests (as in almost all European trains) on daily overnight trains would be more than competitive. V-Line trains could run via the sizeable cities of Ballarat and Geelong from Platform 9 in Adelaide to and from Spencer Street via a modification of the Western Victorian standardisation scheme at present underway and a short standard gauge line from near the Gaol loop on the northern side of the electrified lines.

Future occurrences of the traffic chaos during the recent football semi finals, with the airways racking up their prices to exorbitant levels and dozens of carloads driving for long hours on single lane roads, will invite inevitable tragedies caused by driver fatigue, drug use or inattention.

I ask again. How much longer will Australian rail services be among the worst in the world? I have driven many times to and from Melbourne since there was only the winding Mount Barker Road via the Devil's Elbow and a single lane of bitumen in a macadamized road for many miles as soon as I passed into Victoria, and I also have very many times enjoyed the comfort of an overnight Overland service which we took for granted.

The potential patronage is there. Airways may be fast airport to airport, but they are uncomfortable for most passengers, with significant on-ground lengthy and quite costly access inconveniences. They are also subject to varying prices rather than having reasonable budgetable fares. Trains deliver their passengers to city centres and suburban and country transport hubs.

Provide the services and they will be used.
SAR526
The reality Is State Governments will not fund such a so called proper service, as there Is so few votes to be won In doing so.

Fast passenger trains would struggle to maintain a reliable timetable schedule among other goods trains (160 km/h running becomes rather pointless If the passenger train gets sidelined In a loop for 20 minutes to cross a late running grain train)

If you look around the net the likes of VicRoads Is actively planning the development of a Freeway from Burrumbeet (Ballarat) Pimpinio (Horsham) all for the aim to cater for future traffic.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The reality Is State Governments will not fund such a so called proper service, as there Is so few votes to be won In doing so.

Fast passenger trains would struggle to maintain a reliable timetable schedule among other goods trains (160 km/h running becomes rather pointless If the passenger train gets sidelined In a loop for 20 minutes to cross a late running grain train)

If you look around the net the likes of VicRoads Is actively planning the development of a Freeway from Burrumbeet (Ballarat) Pimpinio (Horsham) all for the aim to cater for future traffic.
Nightfire
That's the reality, like the Hume it will eventually be dual carriageway (almost) all the way; I haven't driven the Western Highway for a while but my understanding is that they're nearly up to Ararat already?

160km/h train would be an enormous improvement, it would probably cut the overall time down to 8 hours depending on where the higher speeds were allowed (not in the Adelaide Hills obviously!).
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.

1: Fast passenger trains would struggle to maintain a reliable timetable schedule among other goods trains (160 km/h running becomes rather pointless If the passenger train gets sidelined In a loop for 20 minutes to cross a late running grain train)

2: If you look around the net the likes of VicRoads Is actively planning the development of a Freeway from Burrumbeet (Ballarat) Pimpinio (Horsham) all for the aim to cater for future traffic.
Nightfire
1: Have we reverted to the dark ages? Has signalling no capacity to prioritize the time sensitive train over a load of inanimate freight?  At most, on this under-utilized line, there would be only a few hours delay for the wheat. That's what civilized countries require of their railways.

2: That leaves more than 300 kilometres between the ends of the divided sections – and even they have frequent horrific prangs and the resulting road closures with consequent long diversions, a couple of which I have experienced. Last I heard, the freeway extension hasn't as yet reached Stawell, and it's taking a long time getting there from Burrumbeet.

It might also be considerably cheaper for the public purse to extend a passing loop or two by an affordable few kilometres a year to allow trains to pass without stopping, and hasten the day when double track is complete. Lots of money is spent doing this for the roads.

As long as quite a few here bang on about their conviction that we should continue to spend billions to foster road transport at the expense of efficient modern railways in line with their right wing Economic Irrationalism we should seriously consider renaming it the Puff Puff Modellers' and Gunzellers' Society. Tony must be really proud of you.

It won't affect me. I'll be probably reluctantly having to live in Victoria again, and dead within a few years, but I love the city and state of my birth enough to want it to remain the innovative community that its pioneers began so well and which is being so badly let down by today's 'I'm All Right Jack' merchants with little vision. Had the pioneers like my grand parents born here 157 years ago thought like some on this list, we'd still be driving horses and traps along dirt roads.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner


1: Fast passenger trains would struggle to maintain a reliable timetable schedule among other goods trains (160 km/h running becomes rather pointless If the passenger train gets sidelined In a loop for 20 minutes to cross a late running grain train)

2: If you look around the net the likes of VicRoads Is actively planning the development of a Freeway from Burrumbeet (Ballarat) Pimpinio (Horsham) all for the aim to cater for future traffic.1: Have we reverted to the dark ages? Has signalling no capacity to prioritize the time sensitive train over a load of inanimate freight?  At most, on this under-utilized line, there would be only a few hours delay for the wheat. That's what civilized countries require of their railways.

2: That leaves more than 300 kilometres between the ends of the divided sections – and even they have frequent horrific prangs and the resulting road closures with consequent long diversions, a couple of which I have experienced. Last I heard, the freeway extension hasn't as yet reached Stawell, and it's taking a long time getting there from Burrumbeet.

It might also be considerably cheaper for the public purse to extend a passing loop or two by an affordable few kilometres a year to allow trains to pass without stopping, and hasten the day when double track is complete. Lots of money is spent doing this for the roads.

As long as quite a few here bang on about their conviction that we should continue to spend billions to foster road transport at the expense of efficient modern railways in line with their right wing Economic Irrationalism we should seriously consider renaming it the Puff Puff Modellers' and Gunzellers' Society. Tony must be really proud of you.

It won't affect me. I'll be probably reluctantly having to live in Victoria again, and dead within a few years, but I love the city and state of my birth enough to want it to remain the innovative community that its pioneers began so well and which is being so badly let down by today's 'I'm All Right Jack' merchants with little vision. Had the pioneers like my grand parents born here 157 years ago thought like some on this list, we'd still be driving horses and traps along dirt roads.
SAR526
I agree with most of what you say. Road building is the bane of Victoria and it infuriates me that everyone says that the State is broke and yet the can find the money to build a crap East-West link for $8 Billion.

However I think that the Albury Corridor and the Metropolitan system should take preference over anything West of Ararat.

Michael
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
I think you meant have the money NOT to build the East-West Link!
Even if the road was a dud, a road is better than a wet stain on a wall.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It might also be considerably cheaper for the public purse to extend a passing loop or two by an affordable few kilometres a year to allow trains to pass without stopping, and hasten the day when double track is complete. Lots of money is spent doing this for the roads.
SAR526
Consideration should also be given to the second track being a cutoff line instead of being alongside the old one in certain places, for example a direct route from Horsham to Stawell instead of making a hard left turn for Murtoa.

Straighter routes = faster end-to-end times, reduced energy usage, reduced wear and tear on rolling stock, reduced infrastructure costs for both construction and maintenance.

That particular one could be built alongside the Dukes Highway, like the potential future second carriageway of the Dukes Highway but having a much smaller footprint and therefore reducing the amount of prime agricultural land to be bought up.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.