50 level crossings to be removed

 
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I didn't realise that the crossing just north of St. Albans station has now been grade separated. But there will now be no public level crossings between the CBD and Sydnam. So I'm sure there will be more trains between city and Watergardens.
Myrtone
The crossing just north of St Albans is Main Road.

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  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
I didn't realise that the crossing just north of St. Albans station has now been grade separated. But there will now be no public level crossings between the CBD and Sydnam. So I'm sure there will be more trains between city and Watergardens.
The crossing just north of St Albans is Main Road.
railblogger
Isn1t there a level crossing adjacent to Diggers Rest station still as well ?
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
But that's between Watergardens and Sunbury, only served by VLine trains back in 2010. The point is that no more level crossings between the CBD and Watergardens means trains can run more frequently on this railway except on the most recent extension.
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Level crossings do not have any effect on how many trains can run.
That is achieved by signals being placed closer together.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Level crossings do not have any effect on how many trains can run.
That is achieved by signals being placed closer together.
gomer
The number of trains through a particular crossing has an effect on how long the boom gates are down. The longer they are down the more traffic can accumulate.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Level crossings do not have any effect on how many trains can run.
That is achieved by signals being placed closer together.
gomer
The Dandenong line Is maxed out, road authorities won't permit any more trains to run In peak periods, due to amount of time level crossings are blocked.

The elimination of the 9 level crossings on the Dandenong line has more to do with traffic congestion relief for the cross roads and pedestrians.
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I can tell you now if Metro had more trains and pathways they would run the trains in the peaks regardless of how many level crossings there are. What severely stops traffic are the Vline services running slow behind metro services causing the booms to stay down for opposing trains.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I can tell you now if Metro had more trains and pathways they would run the trains in the peaks regardless of how many level crossings there are. What severely stops traffic are the Vline services running slow behind metro services causing the booms to stay down for opposing trains.
gomer
They do. They're currently 15 trains in the busiest hour on the Dandenong line when they can run 24.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
When a train approaches a level crossing, the lights start flashing and the audible warning sounding. The barriers close 7 seconds later, this cycle must be complete a certain amount of time before the arrival of the fastest train. This factor alone limits the frequency of trains that can pass over the level crossing in a given amount of time. Only grade separated trackage has the capacity for as many trains per hour on each track as the signalling allows.

Might the electrification to Melton be used as an opportunity to remove every level crossing between Sunshine and Ardeer, or even Adreer and Melton? Since there are no (public) level crossings between Sunshine and the CBD, this would mean that more trains more frequently on the Melton line.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Might the electrification to Melton be used as an opportunity to remove every level crossing between Sunshine and Ardeer
Myrtone
There are no road level crossing between Sunshine and Ardeer !

But assume you mean Sunshine and Deer Park West ?
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
There seem to be two road level crossings between Ardeer and Deer Park. Those were the ones I mean. But I suppose there are also many pedestrian only level crossings. These put the same limits on headways between trains as road level crossings do. So these also need to be removed to run trains at the maximum frequency.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
There seem to be two road level crossings between Ardeer and Deer Park. Those were the ones I mean. But I suppose there are also many pedestrian only level crossings. These put the same limits on headways between trains as road level crossings do. So these also need to be removed to run trains at the maximum frequency.
Myrtone
As is usual, our resident troll has absolutely NFI about what they are talking about.

Dave
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."
  a hat with a toucan Station Master

There seem to be two road level crossings between Ardeer and Deer Park. Those were the ones I mean. But I suppose there are also many pedestrian only level crossings. These put the same limits on headways between trains as road level crossings do. So these also need to be removed to run trains at the maximum frequency.
Myrtone
They are just pedestrian crossings, they help add more trains if removed. After doing some research i have found that the Fitzgearld road level crossing cannot be removed because its too close to the ring road. And please Tehdocta, can you explain why he is trolling? You know, to help someone with an iq of nothing (aka me)?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
There seem to be two road level crossings between Ardeer and Deer Park. Those were the ones I mean. But I suppose there are also many pedestrian only level crossings. These put the same limits on headways between trains as road level crossings do. So these also need to be removed to run trains at the maximum frequency.
They are just pedestrian crossings, they help add more trains if removed. After doing some research i have found that the Fitzgearld road level crossing cannot be removed because its too close to the ring road. And please Tehdocta, can you explain why he is trolling? You know, to help someone with an iq of nothing (aka me)?
a hat with a toucan
Why do you say that? The railway can be sunk with the retaining wall that supports the Ring Road bridge extended.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
They are just pedestrian crossings, they help add more trains if removed. After doing some research i have found that the Fitzgearld road level crossing cannot be removed because its too close to the ring road.
a hat with a toucan
It can be removed !

By diverting the road and Intersection (with Forrest Street) away from It's present alignment / location, onto a new alignment with a grade separation.
  a hat with a toucan Station Master

They are just pedestrian crossings, they help add more trains if removed. After doing some research i have found that the Fitzgearld road level crossing cannot be removed because its too close to the ring road.
It can be removed !

By diverting the road and Intersection (with Forrest Street) away from It's present alignment / location, onto a new alignment with a grade separation.
Nightfire
Of course! I forgot you could realign the road!
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Which way would the road be diverted? Eastward or westward?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Which way would the road be diverted? Eastward or westward?
Myrtone
Looking at the location I guess it would be diverted eastward.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."
LancedDendrite
Well said. This can be ascribed to so many things in the rail industry.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
For everyone's information, I discovered that the Level Crossing Removals Project has now got its very own website. It's actually quite informative and you can click on boxes for every project currently underway, or about to commence, and find out what's happening.

From what I've seen on through various other websites and newsletter:

- Major Work on the Main Road Project (St Albans) will be commencing on Monday with no trains stopping at St Albans for a month while current station buildings are demolished.  Service relocation for this project and Furlong Rd has been taking place all year up to this point.

- Service relocation work will be accelerating on the North Rd/McKinnon Rd/Centre Rd project with signalling equipment being installed in the Bentleigh Station carpark, and other service relocation works taking place.  Also, vegetation removal is also taking place up and down the line - they are making a special effort to remove and preserve the palm trees near Bentleigh Station with the aim of putting them back when the project is finished.

Here is a link to the new Level Crossing website: http://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/home
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
I've seen it. Among the level crossings listed are Moreland road, Brunswick and Bell street, Coburg. When I think of a way to remove those, the way would be to drop that entire section of railway, also removing crossings at Munro, and Gaffney streets, so eliminating the steep gradient to the North. How about we not just dig a cutting but also seal it over in this case?

Removal of the Moreland road level crossing may well pave way for a tram extension, possibly replacing the bus route on west of the railway.

The removal of the Toorak road crossing might also make way for another tram extension.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
And please Tehdocta, can you explain why he is trolling? You know, to help someone with an iq of nothing (aka me)?
a hat with a toucan
Firstly, please, can you get my nick right, this is not the first time you have misspelt it, I am beginning to think it is deliberate.

From the ever reliable Wikipedia, the definition of an internet troll is: "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[size=1][1][/size]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[size=1][2][/size] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[size=1][3][/size] often for their own amusement."

Myrtone fits this perfectly, by constantly posting personal opinions which have been constantly and repeatedly shown, by multiple posters, to be wrong, but then continues to argue his position despite having been categorically proven to be wrong.

Examples where Myrtone has continued to argue (well beyond the point where they have been well and truly shot down in flames) include: DD trains for Melbourne; Bypass of the Upfield line to avoid Royal Park; The decision to have a different rolling stock/operational regime for the NWRL in Sydney; His constant argument that there should only be one railway station per suburb, whilst totally disregarding the individual traffic demands of each suburb which might create the need for multiple stations; That level crossings do not reduce line capacity on rail corridors (unless there are external political pressures, which exist on the Dandenong line, but not out west, where he is arguing about at the moment).


There may be others which I haven't seen. Each and every one of these arguments has been shot down, by multiple posters (at least five or six on each and every occasion) with totally sound and rational arguments, yet Myrtone  keeps coming back and arguing his point, totally ignoring the arguments that have been put in front of them.

That is arguing for no other reason than to argue, and that fits the definition of trolling.



Dave
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Myrtone fits this perfectly, by constantly posting personal opinions which have been constantly and repeatedly shown, bymultiple posters, to be wrong, but then continues to argue his position despite having been categorically proven to be wrong.
thadocta

In many cases, they might think they have proven me wrong, but haven't. In some cases I have used other sources to back them up but others won't trust those sources.

His constant argument that there should only be one railway station per suburb, whilst totally disregarding the individual traffic demands of each suburb which might create the need for multiple stations; That level crossings do not reduce line capacity on rail corridors (unless there are external political pressures, which exist on the Dandenong line, but not out west, where he is arguing about at the moment).
thadocta

Okay, this is actually misunderstood. I was thinking of a general rule, there may be exceptions. One station per suburb, except in large suburbs is a general rule. I did later say that having closer stations might not be a problem if some trains stop at some and others stop at others. Or maybe some suburban stations could be closed at less busy times, like Flagstaff.

More to the point, there is a totally sound and rational argument that level crossings do in fact reduce the effective line capacity; As mentioned above, the crossing must be activated and road/footpath traffic stopped a certain amount of time before the fastest train arrives. Can't anyone see why the headway between trains must be significantly longer than this timeframe? If you ran trains at the same frequency over a level crossing as on the city loop during peak periods, then road would be closed off for an entire peak period. Imagine arriving at a crossing at the beginning of peak hour, and waiting until the end of the peak period (two hours) for them to open. It has been crystal clear to me since childhood that level crossings limit the frequency of trains that can be run. If you want to run trains at even the minimum headway the current signalling system allows, say for an entire day, all crossings between the railway and and road, tramway, or footpath, must be on different levels, otherwise the gates or barriers would be closed all day.

There may be others which I haven't seen. Each and every one of these arguments has been shot down, by multiple posters (at least five or six on each and every occasion) with totally sound and rational arguments, yet Myrtone  keeps coming back and arguing his point, totally ignoring the arguments that have been put in front of them.
thadocta

I'm not convinced they are actually sound and rational, it's like being made to believe the sky is purple when I can clearly see it's light blue. And others have ingored things I've pointed out. If this were wikipedia, it would probably be called disruption or even point of view (POV) pushing, and "a hat with a toucan" would be suspected to be a sockpuppet of mine, which he is definitely not. And if this were the wikipedia community, upon learning tha he is not, they would suspect him to be a meatpuppet, which he is also not.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
I rest my case with the troll's latest reply, more argument for the sake of argument.

Dave

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