C510 on 3GX1

 
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Crystal Brook as a location only has a loop about 400m from memory. Past the departure its double track to Coonamia which is about 20km away.

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  NOELWB Locomotive Driver

Crystal Brook yard has two tracks and a grain silo siding. The yard loop is approximately 1km long and the grain siding possibly 700 meters. The picture above is of the duplicated main immediately north of the yard and the two bridges referred to in a previous post. There is also a balloon loop off the eastern main line about 1 km north of Crystal Brook to serve another grain facility. Only one of the bridges is in use even though they both have track. The unused one was built in the 1880s? but was used relatively recently when the newer one was undermined by a flood, hence the two tracks.
The ARTC network map shows a siding as well as a loop at Port Germein. The loop is at least 2km long. The siding I have no knowledge of.
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT

using the link I draw your attention to the two bridges.  What is the background to these as they appear to be both rail bridges but with only one connected to the network?
x31
X31,

The western bridge is the original narrow gauge bridge. It has been there from the late 1800's. It was in use through to when the Broken Hill - Port Pirie line was standardised. When the line was standardised, a new bridge was built for the standard gauge track.

In the early 1970's, the new bridge was damaged in a flood and a train was derailed. Track was temporarily (re)laid across the old bridge. The old bridge acted as a diversion until the new bridge was re-built.

I do not believe that the old bridge has been re-used since.

I was at the 'brook last September and had a good look at the old bridge. It is a lovely bridge with beautiful steel work. Seems to be in good condition but I doubt that it would be suitable for today's tonnages.

Cheers

Dan

UPDATE:
The standard gauge bridge was destroyed in a flood and consequent derailment in October 1975.

Cheers,
Dan
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
To avoid some of the confusion about the layout at Crystal Brook please refer to this link http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR079.pdf

The photo posted by NSWGR8022 is taken looking north from approx. the 20.634 km mark and shows the southern end of the double track section that runs through to Coonamia and should not be confused with the Crystal Brook Loop.

Port Germein layout can be seen on this link http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR081.pdf

SA_trains is correct about the western bridge over the "brook" it is the original NG bridge from the old NG Port Pirie to Broken Hill line.
  GeordieLadinOz Station Master

We are talking about a shunt move of 10-20 wagons twice a week here and you're wanting to put in $1m plus of taxpayer funded infrastructure in at Crystal Brook to accommodate it.

If there's a grain train in the siding when SCT wants to do their shunt, SCT will just sit down on the main line blocking access to the network for other operators - you seem to think that bending over backwards for SCT is OK, but it's fine to disadvantage other operators.

$1m to put in 1 kilometre of track in a yard environment?  ARTC have clearly lost the plot.

I am not advocating for SCT or any operator.  I am simply suggesting an additional track in the yard at Crystal Brook is a most sensible approach.  it IS the role and job of ARTC to make the network available to operators.

How am I bending over backwards for SCT and how does my suggestion to expand Crystal Brook disadvantage other operators? if anything it actually advantages other operators by:

1. Removing the need for SCT or any other operator to shunt at PG and therefore delaying trains.
2. it provides additional infrastructure at CB for any operator. Not just SCT.
3. it frees up track capacity between CB and PG for those moves.

Other advantages include:

1. Lessening of track access fees for SCT
2. Reduction in carbon emissions
3. Reduction in fuel use.

The mere fact this has not already been done is enough for me to think ARTC network planning and customer service is not doing their job.
x31

Back in this area of the world in 2012, it averaged $250k per turnout; that is material and installation costs. Not sure of the costs of rail and sleepers these days but the associated works would take it very close to the $1M dollar mark. That may seem exorbitant to you but that is what these things cost. Add to that the disruption to the operators during the construction and it is ultimately an expensive exercise.

Also noting that this appears to be a recent change that SCT seem to have instigated themselves, ARTC will not have a crystal ball to predict operators short notice changes. At the end of the day Spencer Junction is only an hour up the line and is more than adequate for what SCT are now doing at Port Germain, especially when until recently they used to do it there. For all any of us know this practice could end next week and return to Spencer Junction and then it would be a wasted $1M.

I am sure ARTC will listen to operators and schedule any network changes if there is a strong business case, not on a whim!

Maybe you should give ARTC a call and advise them of what they should be doing in the next few years, I suggest advising them to duplicate the track between Coonamia and Port Augusta! Smile
  M636C Minister for Railways

Maybe you should give ARTC a call and advise them of what they should be doing in the next few years, I suggest advising them to duplicate the track between Coonamia and Port Augusta! Smile
GeordieLadinOz
The track layout around Port Pirie is a relic of the days of break of gauge.

North of Coonamia the line follows the route of the CR standard gauge which met the SAR line at Solomontown

East of Coonamia the line follows the old SAR narrow gauge line to Broken Hill as far as Crystal Brook.

Just North of Red Hill the line makes a sharp right turn from the 1937 SAR broad gauge that headed straight to Port Pirie to head for Crystal Brook (which had been converted to standard gauge in 1969-70).

Since the line is double track North of Crystal Brook, it would seem sensible to head straight for Port Germein from Warnertown with a double track deviation cutting out the diversion into Port Pirie and the speed restriction on the sharp curve at Coonamia. From the highway at Warnertown you can see Port Germein anyway....

There is a long straight from Port Germein to Mambray Creek, and extending the double track to there would be relatively cheap.

That should allow a lot of trains to pass without stopping.

M636C
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
One that went without notice and completely relevant to this thread.  SCT have installed a new siding at Port Germein which has now been comissioned by ARTC. 22/9/2015.

Now SCT have additional space to work with.

Port Germein Goods and SCT Siding Operating Procedure

The following operating protocols will apply for movements into and out of the existing Port Germein Goods Siding and the newly installed SCT siding:

OVERVIEW

The points leading to the sidings are secured with switchstands provided with point indicators as described in the ARTC Addendum to the Code of Practice for the Defined Interstate Network.

The points are secured by an electric (HLM) point lock and are rodded to a derail at the clearance points of the sidings.

A small control box secured with an ‘S’ lock is mounted on the side of the location cases adjacent to the points, and contains push buttons as follows:

Release Button (Green Pushbutton):

Releases the points provided the correct conditions (as detailed) exists.
Cancel Button (Red Pushbutton):

Cancels the release and locks the points

In addition the following indicating lights are provided:

Release Available (Yellow Light):
Indicates that a release can be operated.

Points Released (Green Light):
Indicates that the points have been released and are available to be operated.

Points Locked (Red Light):
Indicates that the points are normal and locked.

The points and electric point locking are interlocked with the signalling at Port Germein which ensures that a release cannot be obtained unless below conditions are met:

1. The Absolute Home Signals are at ‘Stop’.
2. Route Locking (up to 4 minutes maximum) has expired after a train movement has occupied the main line or crossing loop
3. The points track is clear.

MOVEMENT TERMINATING SIDING:

On arrival the movement shall be brought to a stand on the Crossing Loop. The driver or qualified worker shall:

1. Obtain permission from the ARTC Network Controller to operate the points.
2. Open the Control Box and observe that the points are locked.
3. Confirm that the ‘Release Available’ light is illuminated.
4. Press the ‘Release’ button and observe that the ‘Points Released’ indicating light is steady.
5. Unlock the point lever and operate the points for the movement to enter the siding.

Immediately the movement has entered the siding the Driver or qualified worker shall:

1. Restore the points for the Crossing Loop and lock them.
2. Observe that the ‘Points Locked’ indicating light is displayed and if not Press the ‘Cancel’ button.
3. Close and lock the door on the Control Box and advise the Network Controller.

MOVEMENT DEPARTING SIDING:

The Driver or qualified worker shall:

1. Obtain permission from the ARTC Network Controller to operate the points.
2. Open the Control Box and observe that the points are locked.
3. Confirm that the ‘Release Available’ light is illuminated.
4. Press the ‘Release’ button and observe that the ‘Points Released’ indicating light is steady.
5. Unlock the point lever and operate the points for the movement to depart the siding.

Immediately the movement has entered the Crossing Loop the Driver or qualified worker shall:

1. Restore the points for the Crossing Loop and lock them.
2. Observe that the ‘Points Locked’ indicating light is displayed and if not Press the ‘Cancel’ button.
3. Close and lock the door on the Control Box and advise the Network Controller.

RELEASE OF POINT LOCKING DURING FAILURE:

In the event that a release cannot be obtained in the normal manner the Network Controller shall arrange for a signal maintenance fitter to attend and release the points for a movement to enter or depart the siding. Prior to releasing the point locking the Fitter shall contact the Network Controller and obtain the Network Controllers permission to release the point locking.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
SCT may have paid for it (?), but ARTC installed it.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Snipped information out
bevans
I wonder what SCT thinks about controlled information (that is, only provided to network operator and their users) regarding their siding being pasted on the internet?


For Bing, you are indeed correct. It is owned and paid for by SCT, but was constructed by ARTC. Control of the point releases is held by ARTC.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Snipped information out
I wonder what SCT thinks about controlled information (that is, only provided to network operator and their users) regarding their siding being pasted on the internet?
seb2351
@seb2351 you are incorrect.

This is NOT SCT specific information.  This information is publicly accessible information already available on the Internet.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Snipped information out
I wonder what SCT thinks about controlled information (that is, only provided to network operator and their users) regarding their siding being pasted on the internet?
@seb2351 you are incorrect.

This is NOT SCT specific information.  This information is publicly accessible information already available on the Internet.
bevans
That's fine. I will raise this issue externally with SCT management and ARTC.

Cheers
Seb2351
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Snipped information out
I wonder what SCT thinks about controlled information (that is, only provided to network operator and their users) regarding their siding being pasted on the internet?
@seb2351 you are incorrect.

This is NOT SCT specific information.  This information is publicly accessible information already available on the Internet.
That's fine. I will raise this issue externally with SCT management and ARTC.

Cheers
Seb2351
seb2351

Tell them I said hi. SCT are a quality organisation whom deserve recognition for what they have achieved.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
With regard to the notice covering the public network and the operating procedure does this mean the siding can be remotely controlled from ARTC?

1. Obtain permission from the ARTC Network Controller to operate the points.
2. Open the Control Box and observe that the points are locked.
3. Confirm that the ‘Release Available’ light is illuminated.
4. Press the ‘Release’ button and observe that the ‘Points Released’ indicating light is steady.
5. Unlock the point lever and operate the points for the movement to enter the siding.
ARTC Public Network Maintainer

Remotely and local or just local?

Good to see SCT building out there options.
  V-Setcommuter Locomotive Fireman

Location: Blue Mountains
Even the RailCorp/Sydney Trains/NSW Trains and other operators Weekly Notices, SAFE Notices, rules and procedures, forms, etc. are now published publicly (RailSafe) and can be easily found by a quick Google search.

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