I always choose to learn something every day!!
Can someone please explain what a "Flagship" service is and what makes it that? Is there only one up and down per day on each country service? I don't think I've heard of this on interstate services but I'm certainly prepared to stand corrected.Merriam-Webster Dictonary definition of "FLAGSHIP" is :-
I always choose to learn something every day!!
Merriam-Webster Dictonary definition of "FLAGSHIP" is :-
- The ship that carries the commander of a fleet and flies the commander's flag
- The finest, largest, or most important one of a series, network, or chain (In this case a passenger train)
Can someone please explain what a "Flagship" service is and what makes it that? Is there only one up and down per day on each country service? I don't think I've heard of this on interstate services but I'm certainly prepared to stand corrected.The term flagship service was dreamt up by some Victorian Government wxxxxr to describe the trains that met the near unachievable target travel times set by the Government of the day to the 4 RFR corridors to Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo and Traralgon . That was in the early 2000's .
I always choose to learn something every day!!
And the Flyer went from Flinders Street too, didn't it?Can someone please explain what a "Flagship" service is and what makes it that? Is there only one up and down per day on each country service? I don't think I've heard of this on interstate services but I'm certainly prepared to stand corrected.The steam hauled Geelong Flyer did it in 52 minutes in 1937 reliably every day .
I always choose to learn something every day!!
Yes the Down Flier departed Flinders St and terminated at Geelong . The afternoon Up Flyer actually originated at Camperdown for some years .And the Flyer went from Flinders Street too, didn't it?Can someone please explain what a "Flagship" service is and what makes it that? Is there only one up and down per day on each country service? I don't think I've heard of this on interstate services but I'm certainly prepared to stand corrected.The steam hauled Geelong Flyer did it in 52 minutes in 1937 reliably every day .
I always choose to learn something every day!!
Flagship was indeed a term used to designate a service that would comply with the parameters set in the RFR contracts.The RFR projects were poorly specced on the part of Government, there was this blind expectation that Private Enterprise would come up with some magical solutions to reduce travel times at marginal cost that professional engineers in house had not thought of . As a result Class - 2 track North Shore - Corio when it should have been Class - 1, ditto one track out to Kyneton and Pakenham to Moe of which one track on each line is Class - 2 . Nothing whatsoever was done within the Metro area where largely Class - 3 track in poor condition still prevails .
I recall the Thiess Alstom consortium rebuilding both the Geelong and Ballarat tracks to comply with the time the Government of the day set for it. Geelong was something like 47 minutes and Ballarat was about 62 minutes to Sunshine.
There was a nervous day or two as speed trails were done at the completion of the trackwork. Both tracks complied. However, it seems that the contract only required that at least one train a day be able to manage that timetable. Thus, Thiess Alstom left wooden sleepers in the track between Corio and Geelong as there was no gain in speed with their conversion to concrete.
At the time, many in the railways recognised that the state of the main interurban tracks was appalling. It was then accepted that, whilst it was ridiculous that contracts were written with that one public publicity style objective, the end result would be far better tracks that would also require less maintenance in the future.
Yes the Down Flier departed Flinders St and terminated at Geelong . The afternoon Up Flyer actually originated at Camperdown for some years .And the Flyer went from Flinders Street too, didn't it?Can someone please explain what a "Flagship" service is and what makes it that? Is there only one up and down per day on each country service? I don't think I've heard of this on interstate services but I'm certainly prepared to stand corrected.The steam hauled Geelong Flyer did it in 52 minutes in 1937 reliably every day .
I always choose to learn something every day!!
Flagship was indeed a term used to designate a service that would comply with the parameters set in the RFR contracts.
I recall the Thiess Alstom consortium rebuilding both the Geelong and Ballarat tracks to comply with the time the Government of the day set for it. Geelong was something like 47 minutes and Ballarat was about 62 minutes to Sunshine.
Hi MikeYes the Down Flier departed Flinders St and terminated at Geelong . The afternoon Up Flyer actually originated at Camperdown for some years .And the Flyer went from Flinders Street too, didn't it?Can someone please explain what a "Flagship" service is and what makes it that? Is there only one up and down per day on each country service? I don't think I've heard of this on interstate services but I'm certainly prepared to stand corrected.The steam hauled Geelong Flyer did it in 52 minutes in 1937 reliably every day .
I always choose to learn something every day!!
I think some may be pleasuring themselves somewhat and thinking the old Geelong Flyer was akin to a TGV...
1928 Geelong Flyer, taking 63 minutes departs Spencer Street:
http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1928country/45_46.html
1954 Geelong Flyer, taking 55 minutes departs Spencer Street:
http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1954/1954ttipage37.html
Thanks again to Mark Bau's VR website.
Mike.
Would I be correct in assuming that the B on this train would have worked through to Port Fairy, please?THANKSHi Mike,
That 1954 Geelong Flyer you mentioned, was that hauled by one of the new diesel B Class that were running at the time?
Duncan
Yes.
Would I be correct in assuming that the B on this train would have worked through to Port Fairy, please?THANKSHi Mike,
That 1954 Geelong Flyer you mentioned, was that hauled by one of the new diesel B Class that were running at the time?
Duncan
Yes.
The 1961 tt showed an 0825 departure from Spencer St with 15 minutes Refresh at Geelong, 5 minutes Refresh at Colac, followed by a further 15 minutes Refresh at Camperdown, reaching Warrnambool at 1305 and finally Port Fairy at 1355 . The Up was away from Port Fairy at 1505 Warrnambool at 1550, then 15 Refresh at Camperdown, 15 Refresh at Geelong reaching Spencer St at 2033 .Would I be correct in assuming that the B on this train would have worked through to Port Fairy, please?THANKSHi Mike,
That 1954 Geelong Flyer you mentioned, was that hauled by one of the new diesel B Class that were running at the time?
Duncan
Yes.
Difficult to know without some first hand experience.
Below is the 1954 timetable from Mark Bau's website for Geelong-Port Fairy.
http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1954/1954ttipage40.html
There was a 15 min stop at Geelong where loco's may have been changed, however as there was no refreshments on the train in those days, 15 mins would have also been to down a cup of scalding hot tea, a pie and a sticky bun.
Mike.
Yes, funeral on Monday.Passengers on these slow (as Tom Murray's prized herd of tortoises) servicesSadly, as of 24th December, it is the late Tom Murray. He had not been in good health and died on Christmas Eve.
Around 600 km day return for a single B Spencer Street - Port Fairy X R would have been good use of the loco and a major improvement over steam utilisation on the route. Not hard to imagine an engine change at Geelong (and elsewhere ??) in both directions with steam.The 1961 tt showed an 0825 departure from Spencer St with 15 minutes Refresh at Geelong, 5 minutes Refresh at Colac, followed by a further 15 minutes Refresh at Camperdown, reaching Warrnambool at 1305 and finally Port Fairy at 1355 . The Up was away from Port Fairy at 1505 Warrnambool at 1550, then 15 Refresh at Camperdown, 15 Refresh at Geelong reaching Spencer St at 2033 .Would I be correct in assuming that the B on this train would have worked through to Port Fairy, please?THANKSHi Mike,
That 1954 Geelong Flyer you mentioned, was that hauled by one of the new diesel B Class that were running at the time?
Duncan
Yes.
Difficult to know without some first hand experience.
Below is the 1954 timetable from Mark Bau's website for Geelong-Port Fairy.
http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1954/1954ttipage40.html
There was a 15 min stop at Geelong where loco's may have been changed, however as there was no refreshments on the train in those days, 15 mins would have also been to down a cup of scalding hot tea, a pie and a sticky bun.
Mike.
Passengers on these slow (as the late Tom Murray's prized herd of tortoises) services were awash with coffee and railway pies by the end of their travels . Some said it was all a plot by the then Commissioners to increase the turnover in the Refreshment Rooms beyond Geelong .
Colac Refresh was in reality the towns fourth pub and the bar turnover there was huge, as Colac only had 3 hotels servicing a population of 10,000 plus in those days.
In days of steam especially early 1950's R class steam locos were changed at Geelong, often for an A2 or even a K Class.
With the then new B class diesel electrics they ran right through, 70mph to Warrnambool and 60mph on the last section to between Warrnambool and Port Fairy. (In the last 6 months or so of Warrnambool - Koroit - Port Fairy operation the line speed was dropped as low as 50mph in the early 1970's ).
It was common practice at Geelong in those days on the Down to detach cars with the steam loco ex Melbourne and attach a fresh R withinin 10 minutes. On the Up detach steam loco ex Warrnambool and attach extra cars to the train on the Up end with a fresh steam loco in 15 minutes maximum. An this was all done whilst passengers safely occupied the train at the paltform . None of todays Nanny State nonsense .Around 600 km day return for a single B Spencer Street - Port Fairy X R would have been good use of the loco and a major improvement over steam utilisation on the route. Not hard to imagine an engine change at Geelong (and elsewhere ??) in both directions with steam.The 1961 tt showed an 0825 departure from Spencer St with 15 minutes Refresh at Geelong, 5 minutes Refresh at Colac, followed by a further 15 minutes Refresh at Camperdown, reaching Warrnambool at 1305 and finally Port Fairy at 1355 . The Up was away from Port Fairy at 1505 Warrnambool at 1550, then 15 Refresh at Camperdown, 15 Refresh at Geelong reaching Spencer St at 2033 .Would I be correct in assuming that the B on this train would have worked through to Port Fairy, please?THANKSHi Mike,
That 1954 Geelong Flyer you mentioned, was that hauled by one of the new diesel B Class that were running at the time?
Duncan
Yes.
Difficult to know without some first hand experience.
Below is the 1954 timetable from Mark Bau's website for Geelong-Port Fairy.
http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1954/1954ttipage40.html
There was a 15 min stop at Geelong where loco's may have been changed, however as there was no refreshments on the train in those days, 15 mins would have also been to down a cup of scalding hot tea, a pie and a sticky bun.
Mike.
Passengers on these slow (as the late Tom Murray's prized herd of tortoises) services were awash with coffee and railway pies by the end of their travels . Some said it was all a plot by the then Commissioners to increase the turnover in the Refreshment Rooms beyond Geelong .
Colac Refresh was in reality the towns fourth pub and the bar turnover there was huge, as Colac only had 3 hotels servicing a population of 10,000 plus in those days.
In days of steam especially early 1950's R class steam locos were changed at Geelong, often for an A2 or even a K Class.
With the then new B class diesel electrics they ran right through, 70mph to Warrnambool and 60mph on the last section to between Warrnambool and Port Fairy. (In the last 6 months or so of Warrnambool - Koroit - Port Fairy operation the line speed was dropped as low as 50mph in the early 1970's ).
Subscribers: Duncs, Pressman, TheMeddlingMonk
We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.