Future of V/line

 
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
With V/lines current problems would it be best for Metro to buy out and take over V/line??

Would things get done quicker? Would trains run on time?

or would it be best for V/line to re brand themselves??

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The mind boggles! Rolling Eyes
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Rebranding would achieve absolutely nothing at huge expense. Most people don't care how sleek a train service looks until it meets their expectations in terms of convenience and performance.

As for metro buying them out, it seems plausible that they would find corners to cut that allowed them to run things closer to schedule. Who knows at what expense though.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The V/line brand can be rebuilt by making some much needed changes at the top. Before this can happen we need an independent group to review the current situation between Metro, RRL, DOI and Vline to establish where the root causes lay.  OInly after this will the government be in a position to act on some much needed recommendations.

However, I am not sure the government would want this type of report as it is likely to point to shortfalls in the department responsible.

I personally would not want Metro anywhere near Vline.  The cost to all of us Victorians for entertaining the way Metro does its business is rapidly growing and if anything I would not merge Metro with Vline. Not at all.

What I would do is electrify Stony Point and hand that to Vline and then refocus Vline on regional services with a new innovations group being created within Vline to start planning for greater passenger numbers and infrastructure investment.  The idea of running Vlocities for all services needs review as this is not viable.  A new series of loco hauled rollingstock is required for Geelong (If you are not going to electrify) and longer journeys. My preference is still to electrify Geelong and quickly.

V/line also need to get moving on running trains back to Drydale, Maryborough to Bendigo, Geelong to Maryborough.  This should be the medium term focus of Vline handing back any metro services.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
V/Line is a service delivery organisation. That means it needs to focus on improving its existing services with the resources it has. If it wants to have a vision beyond that, it has to articulate it to the Government and to all Victorians. That means justifying why it needs more funding, how it is going to get it and how it will be used. At the moment the long-term planning is handled by PTV and DEJTR (the current home of the Transport bureaucracy). Perhaps we need to wait and see what the Regional Network Development Plan will say.

I myself think that V/Line relying on fickle State governments for capital works funding isn't sustainable in the long run, regardless of who owns it. V/Line has had a really good run over the ~15 years in attracting capital funding for large projects like Regional Fast Rail and Regional Rail Link. The bad news is that there is still a need for a project like an RFR Mk 2 in order to get the regional commuter lines up to the standard that the original RFR was envisioned to bring. The good news is that it can be done in smaller chunks: more passing loops, partial (re)duplication, stabling, new signalling, new and upgraded rollingstock and so on, but it will need consistent funding.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
V/Line is a service delivery organisation. That means it needs to focus on improving its existing services with the resources it has. If it wants to have a vision beyond that, it has to articulate it to the Government and to all Victorians.
LancedDendrite

The next logical question is "has it?"

Has Vline put to the Government a 5 year plan?

Does Vline have a 10 year plan?

Vline delivers service via coaches also which if you read the latest "glowing annual report" shows a drop in coach passenger numbers. is there a plan to improive the coach services via rail over the next 10 years?

What Vline is not doing well enough is "hubbing" customers in and out of Ballarat via rail services.  To do this we need to convert the Ballarat to Ararat line to SG in line with the Mildura SG conversion and integrate trains to the west of the state.  This is a no brainer.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
On Ararat, am I right in thinking that there are only three services per day (each way)?  If yes, then SG to Ararat, some extension to the western areas (at least Horsham) and scrapping the Overland subsidy and redirecting it are no brainers to me....  (subject to rolling stock availability)
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
With V/lines current problems would it be best for Metro to buy out and take over V/line??

Would things get done quicker? Would trains run on time?

or would it be best for V/line to re brand themselves??
vlocity27

No, no, no & no Exclamation
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Apart from a gigantic waste of money printing new stationery, business cards, timetables et al, and repainting all locomotives and rolling stock, and making new signs minus the V Line logo for stations, bus stops etc., rebranding would achieve precisely nothing. It would be the same tired old management under a new disguise, and nothing would change.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Seems the railways operated far better when run under the same department (ie Victorian Railways) than what they do now with the DoI, V/Line, and Metro to name a few. Too many cooks spoil the broth perhaps.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Given the current performance of Metro and how they have let their tracks deteriorate, why would one want them to run V/Line ?   What  V/Line needs is a complete new broom through the Senior Management with a can do attitude, with a culture that is pro active and looks to do more with what it has got in terms of extra trips with existing rollingstock and staff resources by operating the railway more efficiently.  VLP is currently a very lazy fat  operator that runs the railway in a manner that potentially offers $ m  savings through professional smart operational management .  

Planning seems to be largely the responsibility of PTV rather than the Operators .
  bacoss Station Staff

Please Please Please

Don't let Metro anywhere near it !!!
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
You would only merge Vline and metro trains if metro was a credible operator which they are not. They have proven time and again they are ear for the money.

Metro have consistently breeched load limits for people without a care in the world. Why ?

Because there is no Accor tabulation on thep Arto D the government. If you merged the entities you would have twice the poor culture and management. You may as well shut the entire system down.
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
V/Line is a service delivery organisation. That means it needs to focus on improving its existing services with the resources it has. If it wants to have a vision beyond that, it has to articulate it to the Government and to all Victorians.

The next logical question is "has it?"

Has Vline put to the Government a 5 year plan?

Does Vline have a 10 year plan?
bevans
Bit hard to draw up any kind of five year plan (you can forget ten years!) when said plan is dependent on government funding.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bit hard to draw up any kind of five year plan (you can forget ten years!) when said plan is dependent on government funding.
michaelgreenhill

A 5 year plan is essential for any registered business let alone a corporation turning over millions and millions of dollars. (especially where large scale assets are involved and the financing of those assets).

A corporation registered under the act with a board who are responsible for multiple year planning.  There would have to be a least a 3 year plan probably 5 with maybe a forecast for 10.

The shareholder of the business is irrelevant in some respects (being a government or not) there still needs to be fiscal governance within the business. Vline Corprotation I am reasonably certain would also be subject to audit.

The treasury would also have a number out to 5 years for Vline Corporation.
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
CEO of V/Line has resigned, effective immediately:

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/statement-on-vline-2/
  Divine3801 Station Staff

With V/lines current problems would it be best for Metro to buy out and take over V/line?? Would things get done quicker? Would trains run on time? or would it be best for V/line to re brand themselves??
vlocity27

It's unlikely you have travelled on metro trains or very rarely ever do, especially in peak hour.

The best solution is responsible government direction, the values including, accountability and innovation are missing, restoring all these practices and professional conduct that the Victorian railways have had in the past will uplift Victoria's transport system to the exceptionally high class it once was.

Today we are buried in bureaucracy, complacency, ignorance, a persistent culture of distorting the facts and vested interests dictating the direction of financial resources provided by the passengers, tax and transport fares.

If you are a regular traveller on the regional line beyond Pakenham you will be shocked if they are able to implement their plan.

The main focus, to provide a professional service to passengers and customers is no longer a priority, neither is it proactive in service delivery and reactive to situations and most of all, the lack of communication to passengers who pay to travel.

I advise you to research the history of our suburban rail operations, start with researching the rate of disruptions and cancellations, then find out reasons for them. Effectively guaranteed you will amass enough knowledge and wisdom to make an instant reconsideration of your initial statement.

Metro is a reflection of Brumby's callous disregard, and is evidently a terrible burden for Victorians, he branded myki upon us as well.

V/line's failures is a representation of a government's refusal to take responsibility, where a situation occurs resulting from failure to conduct proper processes to ensure these preventable incidents from happening, none or inadequate action is taken to rectify the issue.

Tracing the complicated tangled web of privatisation, it all comes back to the individuals in parliament we vote in.

Most people know the common problem, know the solution, but the ungrateful individuals voted in refuse to correct this issue and take steps to traject this crisis back from the destitute state it is currently at.

Meanwhile, the free travel does wonders for tourists, but leaves a bitter taste for regular commuters. Passengers consist of working people, and school children. After the end of the month, is punctuality going to be maintained? Now we hear it is potentially going to stretch through the months

As much as people need to continue being employed, it is also just as critical for our younger children and teenagers to attend school and develop education, punctuality is critical and essential for them to maintain their livelihoods and society to develop. Note how many incidences have occurred where Monash University made extraordinary decisions to delay exams resulting in public transport delays, reasonable, but extraordinary all the same, all the same it is very considerate of the faculties to take these steps. Past government silence on this issue is a tolerance of this constant chaos.

It is above all imperative people have the correct information they need when an incident occurs, and place permanent long term measures to prevent them from happening again. They haven't got time to be gambling with their chances, it is a burden and generates additional stress. Everybody is having a very difficult life depending on a service that is continually frustrating everyone, back to their cars.

The continued lack of action to rectify this entire breakdown of responsible management and no adaptive approaches centered on providing service quality and punctuality for our citizens will implode our rail system.

Our society is taking more residents every week has large numbers of move into this state, yet we still hear from private operators and the government that everything is being done accordingly to accommodate, and claim that the network can accommodate.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just on the Ararat post of mine above, iv been having a look at the SG options.  if ever it was done, would it be a new SG track into Ballarat joining the BG tracks and creating a DG platform, or DG from Wendouree?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Just on the Ararat post of mine above, ive been having a look at the SG options.  if ever it was done, would it be a new SG track into Ballarat joining the BG tracks and creating a DG platform, or DG from Wendouree?
james.au
The preferred  passenger option for the North West would be as follows  :

Broad gauge  VL  Southern Cross - Ballarat -  Wendouree .
Standard gauge VL    Geelong - Ballarat -  Ararat - Horsham  & Geelong - Ballarat - Maryborough - Inglewood - Bendigo.

So pax interchange same platform at Ballarat between bg & sg trains .(both platforms at Ballarat dg.)

Small sg  VL  fleet based at Geelong or  Ballarat .

Trackwise  :

Broad gauge -  Southern Cross - Warrenheip .
Dual gauge -  Warrenheip - Ballarat (both platforms) & Ballarat - Wendouree  &  Geelong - North Geelong, also Eaglehawk - Bendigo.
Standard gauge  -  North Geelong - Warrenheip ,  Wendouree - Ararat,  and  Ballarat  North to Maryborough, Inglewood and  Eaglehawk .
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks kuldalai.  Informative.

Though what would be the benefit of the Inglewood-Bendigo conversion?  

One other thing, doing this would allow the Overland to access Ballarat.......
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

Obviously the people that run vline or metro for that matter don't use the trains so why would they care

Doyle
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
With V/lines current problems would it be best for Metro to buy out and take over V/line??

Would things get done quicker? Would trains run on time?

or would it be best for V/line to re brand themselves??
vlocity27


Or a third solution: introduction of two tier rail system for the commuter belt and Merge the V/Line commuter service with Metro trains and call them PTV trains or Victoria Railway or Victoria rail and shorten it  and call it Vicrail Wink

On the Traralgon line:

Metro type service:
Example of stopping pattern :Melbourne stopping all stations to Dandenong

Outer suburban/country train service:
Example of stopping pattern :Melbourne limited stops to Dandenong and then all stations to to Traralgon * with option of some trains ending in place like Pakenham

On the Bendigo line:

Metro type service:
Example of stopping pattern :Melbourne stopping all stations to Watergradens


Outer suburban/country train service:
Example of stopping pattern :Melbourne limited stops to Watergradens and then all stations to Bendigo

Please read page 15: http://economicdevelopment.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/1189324/Bendigo-Metro-Rail-recommendations-report.pdf

• Bendigo trains operating every 20 minutes peak/40 minutes inter peak • All peak services operate through to Epsom or Eaglehawk • Inter peak services commence at either Epsom or Eaglehawk, with a shuttle service augmenting the non-through line if required from page 15

Both of these should have electrification done and run interurban multiple unit (IMU) trains  sets (for example what they have on the Gold Coast Line)
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
or would it be best for V/line to re brand themselves??
vlocity27
I think they should re-brand it to Victorian Railways. This would mean they wouldn't need to spend $$$ on glossy new logo and stationary designs - they could use the lovely old Blue and Gold one with the wings Laughing

BG
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Thanks kuldalai.  Informative.

Though what would be the benefit of the Inglewood-Bendigo conversion?  

One other thing, doing this would allow the Overland to access Ballarat.......
james.au
Conversion of  Inglewood -  Eaglehawk and then dg into Bendigo would allow sg  pass service to operate cross country from Geelong via Ballarat - Maryborough and  Inglewood to  Bendigo .  Also sg access for freight to the national sg network would be provided to industry and railway workshops at both Ballarat and Bendigo.

Yes as long as it survives  "The Overland" could then run via North Shore and Ballarat to  Horsham and Adelaide .
This loco hauled train is very old now and obly carries like  35,000  pax per annum  (at its peak it carried over 550,000 pax per annum).  As such to survive GSR has to acquire two new 5  car  push/pull type sets running a daylight service 7 days a week both ways with an accelerated 10 hour schedule .  

Given the current age of the train one has to question the wisdom of Victoria in continuing to subsidize such a dinosaur to provide a slow archaic rail passenger service 2 times a week to Stawell, Horsham, Dimboola and Nhill  ? used by a handfull of pax  ;  when  VLP would potentially be able to provide either a sg shuttle from Ararat connecting there with through bg to , or sg  Ballarat -  Horsham with bg connection at Ballarat to Melbourne at potentially lower cost .
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
Just for everyones knowledge I was just suggesting ideas and wanted to hear others. Along with everyone's thoughts.

In know way would I ever encourage Metro to take over V/line hahah.

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