Why not then install the rail greasing pots on both sides of the flyover to solve the problem ?I think this is what is actually happening as a temporary measure (along with speed restrictions):
V/Line might not like them but they are under so much trouble at the moment that if it fixes or improves the problem they are going to get to love rail curve lubrication in a hell of a hurry .Why not then install the rail greasing pots on both sides of the flyover to solve the problem ?I think this is what is actually happening as a temporary measure (along with speed restrictions):
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/vline-chief-theo-taifalos-resigns-as-rail-chaos-drags-on-for-regional-travellers-20160128-gmfu08.html
Although I've also heard that V/Line don't like them, so it might not be the final solution.
Latest news:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-09/vline-chief-to-be-quizzed-in-parliament-train-problems/7151152
The last line caught my attention:
"Representatives from Metro Trains, Transurban and VicRoads will also appear at the hearing, with a report expected to be tabled to Parliament in June."
I read this morning that all the rail on the North Melbourne Flyover will be ripped up and replaced. That should solve at least one of the problems.My understanding is that this is being done as a result of the wear to the rail head (it wasn't just the Vlocity wheels wearing). It's not so much a solution as a short-term fix, since if the underlying problem isn't solved, the rail head will just wear down again.
It appears that a healthy supply of new wheels has arrived and that the V Locity trains will all soon be repaired.Sixty wheelsets arrived last Sunday, I think. That should be enough to replace the wheels on five six-car Vlocity sets. Not remotely enough to replace all those taken out of service. Additional wheels will be required and they will have a lead time, so I expect the Vlocity fleet will slowly come back online over the following months.
Greasing of the line is now occurring and should also help matters.
Now maybe, just maybe, the powers at be will learn from this and be more careful with both their design and actual construction of projects such as this in future.I would be surprised. The approach seems to be to make cuts to save a few dollars now and then have to spend bucketloads later to fix the problems (by which time it's someone else's problem).
Are we sure that we are talking wheelsets and not just wheels?It appears that a healthy supply of new wheels has arrived and that the V Locity trains will all soon be repaired.Sixty wheelsets arrived last Sunday, I think. That should be enough to replace the wheels on five six-car Vlocity sets. Not remotely enough to replace all those taken out of service. Additional wheels will be required and they will have a lead time, so I expect the Vlocity fleet will slowly come back online over the following months.
Greasing of the line is now occurring and should also help matters.
Apologies, it is 60 wheels, not wheelsets. I had read elsewhere that there should have been enough to do 5 Vlocity sets, so I incorrectly extrapolated.Sixty wheelsets arrived last Sunday, I think. That should be enough to replace the wheels on five six-car Vlocity sets. Not remotely enough to replace all those taken out of service. Additional wheels will be required and they will have a lead time, so I expect the Vlocity fleet will slowly come back online over the following months.Are we sure that we are talking wheelsets and not just wheels?
I read somewhere that 60 new wheels arrived the other day. This is enough to make 30 wheelsets or enough to do 7 and a half Vlocity cars ie just over one Vlocity set.
5 x 6 car Vlocity sets (30 cars) needs 240 wheels or 120 wheelsets.
Not saying that I am right but it would be normal to just buy new wheels and push them onto the existing axles but anything is possible these days given the spin that is being spouted. Axles always used to be purchased separate from wheels as they last, more or less, for ever.
Can someone tell me if the original rail track on the flyover (which is being replaced this weekend) was manufactured by OneSteel Whyalla? I've just been reading some ill-informed tweets and I really don't think the track was manufactured in China.
Also, I came across these photos on VicSig dating back to 2014. This machine as I understand it only mills the top of the rail head? Not the sides?
http://vicsig.net/photo/20222
http://vicsig.net/photo/20221
As I foreshadowed in previous posts on the several threads that have been running on this issue, the re railing is the first of 3 to 4 locations to be done. It won't be possible to ease the radius of the curves but the profiling of rails and wheelsts supported by permanent rail lubrication will address this. I'm not sure when the grinding of rail will be done as I imagine that profile will come from the work Monash University are doing. I'm not sure if it is possible to adjust the spacer inserts to also ease the gauge slightly. That was mentioned by a poster who seems to have some understanding of this.There are a number of factors that we need to be aware of:
I'm not sure as well what is going to be the end result of what the long term impact is of having installed numerous concrete sleepers to a slightly tight gauge that goes back to the RFR days particularly on the Bendigo Line. That might have been ok for tangent track but not for curves. I'm somewhat surprised how a decision came about to have tighter gauge especially when Victoria has been slow to embrace things like rail lubrication. To manufacture hundreds of thousands of concrete sleepers with tighter gauge to me should have required extensive research and testing and evaluation.
The consequences of that if it proves to be the case could be staggering. I hope this is covered in the brief given to Monash Uni to investigate. What I hope this fleshes out is whether there has been a breakdown in the inspection regime for both the track and rolling stock. Hundreds of wheels and hundreds of metres of track don't suddenly reach the situation that it has if you have a well developed inspection and monitoring regime. This would indicate systemic areas and again as foreshadowed Metro is in a bit of bother and more critical for them because there is a set of parameters for track, rolling stock and the overhead line equipment that all come into play.
No probs Comrade.Apologies, it is 60 wheels, not wheelsets. I had read elsewhere that there should have been enough to do 5 Vlocity sets, so I incorrectly extrapolated.Sixty wheelsets arrived last Sunday, I think. That should be enough to replace the wheels on five six-car Vlocity sets. Not remotely enough to replace all those taken out of service. Additional wheels will be required and they will have a lead time, so I expect the Vlocity fleet will slowly come back online over the following months.Are we sure that we are talking wheelsets and not just wheels?
I read somewhere that 60 new wheels arrived the other day. This is enough to make 30 wheelsets or enough to do 7 and a half Vlocity cars ie just over one Vlocity set.
5 x 6 car Vlocity sets (30 cars) needs 240 wheels or 120 wheelsets.
Not saying that I am right but it would be normal to just buy new wheels and push them onto the existing axles but anything is possible these days given the spin that is being spouted. Axles always used to be purchased separate from wheels as they last, more or less, for ever.
They will need a lot more wheels to replace all that require replacing. The issue is that the amount of wear on the flange means that they would have to cut a lot out of the diameter of the wheel in order to restore the profile. Not all the wheels have enough material left before the condemning limit. As woodford said, though, this is not a quick job.
It would also be of great interest to know the background to the choice of tight gauge concrete sleepers in the first place.This fits in with a theory I would like to test. Woodford, Bevans and Kuldalai et al please consider....
Of equal interest would be to know if we are still buying and laying tight gauge sleepers/track. It wouldn't surprise me but, if not, how has the change been made?
Yes they are all very valid points. It's not that there hasn't been any prior experience with the use of concrete sleepers in Victoria. The installation of concrete sleepers on the broad gauge around Tottenham and between Footscray and Newmarket plus a section on the Geelong Line going back 30 years are examples and I think both 53kg and 60kg per meter were used.
For Australian standard rail 53Kg and 60Kg have the same head and base widths (70,0mm and 146.0mm), 50Kg rail has the same head width (70.0mm) but the base is narrower (127.0mm). In concrete sleepers the insulating pads are replaceable, for instance the sleepers used on the NE gauge conversion were made for 60Kg rail (the number is cast into the concrete of the sleeper) BUT 50Kg rail was used in at least one place by changing the insulating pads to ones that suited the smaller rail.It would also be of great interest to know the background to the choice of tight gauge concrete sleepers in the first place.This fits in with a theory I would like to test. Woodford, Bevans and Kuldalai et al please consider....
Of equal interest would be to know if we are still buying and laying tight gauge sleepers/track. It wouldn't surprise me but, if not, how has the change been made?
Is it possible that the choice of rail was wrong? To explain; if you take for example: 47kg or 53 kg rail, which are often used in Victoria, then the size of the rail head is smaller than for 60kg rail. But if you put 60kg rail on the North Melbourne Flyover, and the gauge setting of the sleepers and the rail clips is set for say.... 47kg or 53 kg rail, then the extra rail width at the rail head for 60 kg rail will automatically tighten the gauge by several millimetres. Not much, but enough to cause these problems when greasing is not performed. Also it may be possible that all the sleepers were ordered to the same state wide design specification, and that this did not take into account the different size/ weight of the actual rail.
Your thoughts please
Duncs
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