Patterson Station Name Change

 
  mariamarcelli Beginner

Location: Melbourne
Hi all
On the Frankston line between Moorabbin and Bentleigh is Patterson station.
Patterson is not a suburb but just the name of the street it goes over.
In keeping things consistent ie) Flinders Street, shouldn't it be renamed Patterson Street?
This would also avoid confusion with the suburb Patterson Lakes nearest to Carrum station on the same train line. Any other stations where this would be the case?
Maria

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  mk4c Station Master

Actually I think it is Flinders Street (and the former Spencer Street) that is the exception. All of the other stations that were named after streets had "street" or "road" dropped from the name like Bell (Preston Bell Street) and Macauley (Macauley Road) allegedly because the station names were deemed to be too long.

Theres a thread here with more detail: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373249-0-asc-s0.htm
  onyx Locomotive Fireman

The situation isn't unique to Patterson. For example Macaulay is in Kensington and located on Macaulay Road, Bell is on Bell Street Preston, and Regent on Regent Street Reservoir. There are many more stations with similar stories, and the list of stations not named after their suburb is extremely long.

As for renaming them to reflect that they're on a street? I don't think it'll happen or will be all that useful anyway. In fact most of these stations changed from being named X Street station to just X station. Some even had the suburb name attached to the station name, along with the street name. The South Morang Line had a few of these, such as Preston-Bell Street, Preston-Murray Road (now just Preston) and Preston-Regent Street.

Flinders Street is really the odd one out here, it's the only station which retained the "Street", and the only other one to have picked up a similar name is Cardinia Road which opened a few years back.

As for confusion between the suburb and the street, that's a decent point, but we also have a whole bunch of stations which are named after the wrong suburb, take North Melbourne (in West Melbourne) and Toorak (in Armadale) as examples. Especially in the case of North Melbourne, you wouldn't want to change the name as it has become strongly associated with this major interchange station.
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

Here's a list of other stations most likely named after the street it crosses through/over/under or situated near:
- Macaulay (Macaulay Rd, North Melbourne)
- Regent (Regent St, Preston)
- Bell (Bell St, Preston)
- Cardinia Rd (Officer)
- Keon Park (Keon Parade, Thomastown)
- Westall (Westall Rd, Clayton South)
- Hawksburn (Hawksburn Rd, South Yarra)
- Chatham (Chatham Rd, Surrey Hills)
- Laburnum (Laburnum St, Blackburn)
- Heatherdale (Heatherdale Rd, Mitcham)
- Westgarth (Westgarth St, Northcote)
- Batman (Batman Ave, Coburg North)
- Newmarket (Newmarket Pl, Flemington)
- Glenferrie (Glenferrie Rd, Hawthorn)
- Auburn (Auburn Rd, Hawthorn East)
- Hartwell (Hartwell Hill Rd, Camberwell)
- Alamein (Alamein Ave, Ashburton)
- Tooronga (Tooronga Rd, Malvern)
- Heyington (Heyington Pl, Toorak)

These stations have carried these names for decades, so no point changing the name to reflect the suburb it is located in e.g. (East Richmond -> Cremorne) (Newmarket -> Flemington) (Westall -> Clayton South)
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
The name of Ginnifer station on Furlong Road always struck me as weird.

A bit of research unveiled the fact that it was named after a journeyman local politician who main distinction appears to have been not actually doing much during his time in Parliament. Now I have no problem with naming things after pollies who have risen to high office or even backbenchers who have pushed an especially worthy agenda. But naming something after a person who could, at most, be described as a "seatwarmer" strikes me as unfortunate.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Patterson is a fairly recent station built in 1961 according to VicSig: http://vicsig.net/infrastructure/location/Patterson.  It was obviously named after the road that it crosses. Technically it's probably Bentleigh South but there is no suburb designation of that name.  Everyone knows it as Patterson so we may as well keep it. As far as I know the only station to have a significant name change was Museum when it became Melbourne Central.

That being said there are a few oddities around. Watergardens is named after the local shopping centre - why they couldn't have kept it as Sydenham I don't know.  And there is soon to be a Marymeade on the Mernda extension which will be named after a local Catholic high school.
  crevat Locomotive Driver

As others have pointed out Patterson is hardly unique with its name. Name changes aren't really necessary as I don't think too many people are fussed on the names of stations being completely accurate, especially if the name change would just be adding "Road" or "Street" to the end of the current name.

Just to name two examples of stations with even less "accurate" names, Jordanville station is named after a suburb that doesn't exist anymore and Burwood station isn't in Burwood. It would be pointless naming them Huntingdale Road Station and A Little South of Toorak Road Station respectively just to make them more accurate. At this stage the stations have come to be associated with those names, and I don't think there would be any real benefits to changing them.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
As far as I know the only station to have a significant name change was Museum when it became Melbourne Central.
jdekorte

Well there was Spencer Street that became Southern Cross.  And it had originally been Batman's Hill.
  I'm Barely Online Locomotive Fireman

That being said there are a few oddities around. Watergardens is named after the local shopping centre - why they couldn't have kept it as Sydenham I don't know.
jdekorte
The shopping center that's next to the station holds the naming rights to the station, like ANZ does to ANZ stadium
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
That being said there are a few oddities around. Watergardens is named after the local shopping centre - why they couldn't have kept it as Sydenham I don't know.
The shopping center that's next to the station holds the naming rights to the station, like ANZ does to ANZ stadium
I'm Barely Online
Also the railway line is on the boundary of both Taylors Lakes and Sydenham, so the station could technically be called either. Most people enter from the Taylors Lakes side.
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

Collingwood and Victoria Park are both located in Abbotsford, Then there's Keon Park - named after Keon Parade and the locality of Keon Park, which is in Reservoir while the station is in Thomastown.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The name of Ginnifer station on Furlong Road always struck me as weird.

A bit of research unveiled the fact that it was named after a journeyman local politician who main distinction appears to have been not actually doing much during his time in Parliament. Now I have no problem with naming things after pollies who have risen to high office or even backbenchers who have pushed an especially worthy agenda. But naming something after a person who could, at most, be described as a "seatwarmer" strikes me as unfortunate.
Bogong


Ginifer...one 'n' was if I recall named after Jack Ginifer who was the local MP who won the seat at the start of the Cain Government in 1982, however he died shortly after being elected so when the station was built around the same time, it was named after him.

Mike.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
And not forgetting how Bentleigh got its name.  

But really, it doesn't matter what a railway station is called, as long as everyone knows where it is.  Preferably there should be an approximation of geographical location, but (for example) you don't need to know where Patterson Road is to use Patterson station - although I still find "Watergardens" confusing.  As Shakespeare nearly had it, "A station by any other name ........"
  AzN_dj Chief Commissioner

Location: Along route 69
If you want something confusing, look at stations in London:
Acton Main Line, Acton Central, Acton Town, South Acton, West Acton, North Acton, South Acton.
Clapham North, Clapham South, Clapham Common, Clapham High Street, Clapham Junction.
Abbey Wood, Abbey Road (both nowhere near where the Beatle's famous crossing is)
Find out how many stations are named "high street". There are quite a lot.

Patterson and Patterson Lakes are not as confusing as a lot I have seen. See how many people get confused between Hughesdale, Huntingdale and Heatherdale. Thank God there isn't a station also called Heatherton.
  pawanoro Deputy Commissioner

The name of Ginnifer station on Furlong Road always struck me as weird.

A bit of research unveiled the fact that it was named after a journeyman local politician who main distinction appears to have been not actually doing much during his time in Parliament. Now I have no problem with naming things after pollies who have risen to high office or even backbenchers who have pushed an especially worthy agenda. But naming something after a person who could, at most, be described as a "seatwarmer" strikes me as unfortunate.
Bogong
I think you're a bit harsh on poor old Jack Ginifer there, he had represented that area for sixteen years in state parliament and was made a minister when the ALP was finally elected to government, not long before he passed away. If the then Liberal government had managed to build the station in less than the five years from when they announced it that it ultimately took it may have been a moot point.

The early tickets have (Furlong) under Ginifer on them, I think the special tickets for the free trips at the opening may only have Furlong on them, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Thanks pawanoro. It's interesting that the station appears to have been briefly given the more geographically descriptive name or Furlong.

Fair enough, I didn't know much about Jack Ginifer. No doubt he was a good person, but there have been many hundreds of time-serving back bench MPs who had a brief stint as a junior minister. But I think most of us would agree that for a person to get something named after them requires an exceptional contribution, whether inside politics or in the broader world.

There were lots of stations and towns in Victoria named after premiers: Healesville, Bentleigh, Serviceton, etc., or especially eminent senior ministers like Foster, Stawell, etc. But these blokes all made outstanding contributions to the state. While Ginifer may have been a nice chap, even his closest friends wouldn't claim he'd done that.

So IF we are going to name locations after state politicians, (and perhaps we shouldn't), I would prefer they were named after premiers of the second half of the 20th century who DID have an impact like Tom Holloway, John Cain (the elder), Henry Bolte, Rupert Hamer, John Cain (the younger), etc. or truly outstanding senior ministers.

Humble backbenchers with a dozen years service and a brief stint as a junior minister aren't in the same league and naming things after them appears to be more an act of political patronage than commemorating someone who contributed to the state in an important way.
  pawanoro Deputy Commissioner

I imagine the circumstances of his death, early and sudden, at 54 and only two months after resigning from the ministry and parliament had a lot to do with it. The station opened three moths later.

Regarding the tickets I found an old auction on eBay showing how some early tickets were issued as FURLONG and others as GINIFER (Furlong).

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Railway-tickets-Victoria-Ginnifer-Furlong-used-and-unused-issues-/231814019996?

There are a few politicians with stations named after them in the northern suburbs, Jewell and Anstey spring to mind, and I'm pretty sure Dennis was some local councillor. Lalor too, but I imagine he meets your requirements.


Getting back on topic there's no question Patterson station was named as such because of the road, but who was the road named for?
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Can't find anything definite, but I'm guessing that the road (and later the station), and all the other variants, were named for Sir James Brown Patterson, who became Premier of Victoria in 1893.  More about him here:  http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/patterson-sir-james-brown-4375

Happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwise.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

1. Ginifer. There's a book about the battle to get Ginifer station, but I can't find it at the moment. I believe the station was named Ginifer to honour Jack Ginifer's lengthy battle as local member to get the station built.

2. Patterson. The railways wanted to call it 'Kamiri' after a Koorie tribe. The Commissioners had a policy at the time of naming new stations with Koorie names, and, in any case, there was already a Patterson station in NSW. Kamari had been approved by the PMG and the Lands Department. The local council (Moorabbin at the time) didn't like the name and wanted it named Patterson as the locality was named. The government ultimately came down on the side of the locals and the Commissioners had to give way.

It's possible that Patterson Road was named after James Brown Patterson, but the road already had that name in 1882, so it was named well before he became premier. He also doesn't appear to have a local connection, as Patterson was MLA for Castlemaine, though he lived in Melbourne.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
1. Ginifer. There's a book about the battle to get Ginifer station, but I can't find it at the moment. I believe the station was named Ginifer to honour Jack Ginifer's lengthy battle as local member to get the station built.

2. Patterson. The railways wanted to call it 'Kamiri' after a Koorie tribe. The Commissioners had a policy at the time of naming new stations with Koorie names, and, in any case, there was already a Patterson station in NSW. Kamari had been approved by the PMG and the Lands Department. The local council (Moorabbin at the time) didn't like the name and wanted it named Patterson as the locality was named. The government ultimately came down on the side of the locals and the Commissioners had to give way.

It's possible that Patterson Road was named after James Brown Patterson, but the road already had that name in 1882, so it was named well before he became premier. He also doesn't appear to have a local connection, as Patterson was MLA for Castlemaine, though he lived in Melbourne.
historian
I believe the book you refer to was written by Tom Rigg a past station master at St Albans who campaigned for many years (with others to have St albans station ( Main RD ) Level crossing grade separated .
Tom must be be feeling very gratified that not only Main road but Furlong road is being attanded to now .
  Dr_Pepper Beginner

Location: Croydon, Victoria, Australia
Hi all
On the Frankston line between Moorabbin and Bentleigh is Patterson station.
Patterson is not a suburb but just the name of the street it goes over.
In keeping things consistent ie) Flinders Street, shouldn't it be renamed Patterson Street?
This would also avoid confusion with the suburb Patterson Lakes nearest to Carrum station on the same train line. Any other stations where this would be the case?
Maria
mariamarcelli

Burwood.  For 20 years the boundaries have changed and Burwood is several kilometres away from its namesake.  Although I'd argue that postcode boundary be changed back, rather than rename the station.

Heatherdale.  Name after a nearby road but could be confused with suburb of Heatherton.

Hawksburn.  Too close in name to Hawthorn?

Malvern vs East Malvern, they're on different lines...?  Thing is, those are accurate Smile
  Snoghort Beginner

As far as I know the only station to have a significant name change was Museum when it became Melbourne Central.

Well there was Spencer Street that became Southern Cross.  And it had originally been Batman's Hill.
Calgully
Also "Stopping Place Number 15" on the Stony Point Line became Moorradoo in 1996 (the original name of Crib Point)

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