Question about 3000 class railcars

 
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Standard lengths on Gawler and Seaford are 160m for 6 cars. On Outer Harbor it is 120. There are substandard lengths which are all documented and concept designed. The most critical would be Oaklands.
What are the standard lengths for the Grange and Belair lines?
Heath Loxton
120 as I understand it, no intention of using 6 car spare on either. Note that platform lengths are painted at 10m intervals on every platform.

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  Lt. Commander Data Station Master

Location: Stobie Poll City (Adelaide).
The other day (Wed 16-12) I decided to catch the Belair train home because I was sick of the freeway (I normally catch a T863). Upon arriving at Adelaide station (at about 4:35) I look at the screen things and the 4:46 Belair train is due to depart from platform 5. When I get to platform 5, the smaller screen thing says "5:05 Gawler" and there is a 3 set waiting there. As I walk along the platform I see in the distance a single carriage, so I head down and sure enough, it said (on the screen thing) "4:46 Belair". Luckily I got there early, because people were standing until Mitcham. The train (3005) went so slowly that it got to Blackwood 5+ minutes late, luckily the 894S I required was waiting. Because the 894S left late, he (the driver) had to hold back the 866R and 868 be side people wanted to connect. I would like to congragulate Southlink for their excellent service, unfortunately the same cannot be said for TransAdelaide.
I have a few questions:
Is a peak hour train normally only one carriage?
Are Belair trains often late/slow?
Are there often two services parked on the same platform at ARS?

Thanks in advance,
Data
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Is a peak hour train normally only one carriage?
Lt. Commander Data
No. That train being short-formed would have been a result of the disruption to service caused by trains failing in the heat on Wednesday.

Are Belair trains often late/slow?
Lt. Commander Data
It is to be expected on hot days, but can happen at any time thanks to the single line route and the lack of resilience in the system. All it needs is one person on a big fatty convenience tank "mobility scooter" to make a clumsy 37 point turn (as opposed to a genuine wheelchair which can rotate on the spot) when getting off the train and the delays can spiral out of control for hours if the controllers aren't on the ball.

However, on Adelaide Metro a train has to be six complete minutes late before it is officially considered to not be on time - so never plan a connection shorter than eight minutes. This is a margin you won't find in any first world countries, and ironically also a bigger margin than the higher standards demanded (and kept) on the Adelaide Metro bus contracts despite the buses being subject to the congestion caused by Adelaide's 1960s-like car dependency.

The correct course of action when delayed over the 6 minute threshold is to complain to the passenger transport ombudsman and make use of your refund rights ... oh wait, we don't have either!

Are there often two services parked on the same platform at ARS?
Lt. Commander Data
Yes, quite often during the peaks but not uncommon at other times. Unless it's as a result of disruption and they are struggling to keep up with things, there should be plenty of announcements over the PA that "the 4:46 Belair train will be departing from the yard, or far, end of platform 5."
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast

I have a few questions:
Is a peak hour train normally only one carriage?
Are Belair trains often late/slow?
Are there often two services parked on the same platform at ARS?

Thanks in advance,
Data
Lt. Commander Data
Most peak hour trains are two or more cars, but there there are a couple of peak runs regularly scheduled to be single car, irrespective of disruption.

That 1646 to Belair is normally a single car even with things running smoothly - I pass this train every day in the west Parklands on my inbound Seaford train and it's usually a single car, full and standing.

The 0825 Salisbury to Adelaide is another example - a single car which gets crammed at Mawson Lakes at that time of day.
  Lt. Commander Data Station Master

Location: Stobie Poll City (Adelaide).
Thanks for the answers, it explains a lot, as I am not a regular rail user, and, while I am interested in PT, I'm more into the buses (like I have a choice living on a line that was shut in 1982). As far as planning a connection that is long enough so that the bus won't leave before the train gets there, that is nearly impossible at Blackwood, as connecting with the 1646 train (arriving at Blackwood at 1718) there is an 894S (leaving at 1718), a 600 to Aberfoyle Hub (leaving at 1720) and a 600 to Marion (leaving at 1721) and then no more connections until 1750 when there's another 600 or something. Luckily, in the Hills connecting buses (such as the 823, 834, 837-839, 85x, 866, 868 and 894) are required to wait for the connector from the city, and vice versa in the morning (except for the 893/4>Train). It does raise a good point though: If say, the T863 is running late, the driver will just call up the 868 or whatever and tell them to wait, but the train can't do the same. Why shouldn't different companies/ modes of transport be able to phone up and advise connections of late running, surely it's in everyone's interest to keep pad happy and meet their connections (the only exception to this is the morning peak trains which shouldn't have to wait).
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
In theory at Blackwood the 600 bus to Marion connects with the down Belair train which during the day crosses the up train at the station. I often catch the 600 bus from Blackwood to FMC but fortunately live close by.

I've not compared timetables to check how long the theoretical connection time is but the down train is usually always late.  

Meanwhile the bus driver does not want to run late and has to do a right hand turn onto the main road.  This easy while the boom gates at the adjacent crossing are still down but if he misses then of course he has to wait for the built-up traffic to clear.  So once the up train starts moving towards the crossing the bus driver is off.

If one wants to connect from a down Belair train to a 600 Marion bus one would need to preferably exit from the rearmost door and be able to run while frantically waving in the direction of the bus.  Otherwise expect a 30 minute wait.  I'm sure there are similar situations with other train>bus connections at Blackwood.

Richard.
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide

I have a few questions:
Is a peak hour train normally only one carriage?
Are Belair trains often late/slow?
Are there often two services parked on the same platform at ARS?

Thanks in advance,
DataMost peak hour trains are two or more cars, but there there are a couple of peak runs regularly scheduled to be single car, irrespective of disruption.

That 1646 to Belair is normally a single car even with things running smoothly - I pass this train every day in the west Parklands on my inbound Seaford train and it's usually a single car, full and standing.

The 0825 Salisbury to Adelaide is another example - a single car which gets crammed at Mawson Lakes at that time of day.
1S47
Apart from the 1646 to Belair there are now only two other single car evening peak workings, the 1757 to Grange and 1804 to Osborne.  The current diagrams require a total of 64 cars in the evening peak out of the total 3xxx fleet of 70.  Although diesels were displaced from Seaford and Tonsley during this year, there is little scope now for further strengthening of consists in the peak without reducing the resilience of the operation.  At the beginning of 2015 there were more single car workings on the Belair line.

Most of the empty workings to and from Dry Creek are multiple consists which are joined or split in the platforms at ARS.  This reduces the number of movements between the depot and the city, reduces the crew requirements and aids platform usage (particularly with the Convention Centre work reducing the platform lengths until mid-2016).

Alex C
  Lt. Commander Data Station Master

Location: Stobie Poll City (Adelaide).
Sorry to bring up an old topic, but this seemed like the best place to put this...

Good to see today the 16:46 BEL was run by 2 carriages, as after deciding at the last minute to get the 894S instead of T863, thought I'd have to stand as I got there at the last minute. Is this a now regular thing, or was I just lucky?
Disheartening to get overtaken by 4003 between Adel. Showgrounds and Goodwood though...

Just out of interest, was anyone here taking pics at Sleeps Hill this evening? Looked like someone was...
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
Sorry to bring up an old topic, but this seemed like the best place to put this...

Good to see today the 16:46 BEL was run by 2 carriages, as after deciding at the last minute to get the 894S instead of T863, thought I'd have to stand as I got there at the last minute. Is this a now regular thing, or was I just lucky?
Disheartening to get overtaken by 4003 between Adel. Showgrounds and Goodwood though...

Just out of interest, was anyone here taking pics at Sleeps Hill this evening? Looked like someone was...
Lt. Commander Data
Within the last month to 6 weeks the weekday diagrams seem to have been tweaked. It appears that the 16.46 BEL is now 2 car as well as all interpeak Grange services. The 1812 TONS and 1930 SFRD are now electric.  The one 3-car interpeak consist on the Gawler line has reverted to 2-car.

4003 would most likely be the 1650 to Seaford which is fast to Woodlands Park and should normally get green signals through the Keswick/Wayville area.

Alex C
  fairmont1998 Beginner

No single car consists anymore. Everything is 2+ cars.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Just curious, are there any individual build dates for each unit? Obviously 3001 would have been the first, but how many were in service by around mid 1989?

When was the first one built by Clyde delivered?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Just curious, are there any individual build dates for each unit? Obviously 3001 would have been the first, but how many were in service by around mid 1989?

When was the first one built by Clyde delivered?
ARG706
According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3000_class_railcar
The Railpage loco DMU section appears to be non-functional at the moment



The Comeng Versions where delivered from November 1987 Comeng units are 3001 to 3008 and 3101 to 3112
The Clyde versions where delivered from 1992 to 1996 Clyde units are 3009 to 3030 and 3113 to 3140
  Walter Junior Train Controller

Location: Lurking, but not very well
Just curious, are there any individual build dates for each unit? Obviously 3001 would have been the first, but how many were in service by around mid 1989?

When was the first one built by Clyde delivered?
ARG706

Catch Point for January 1989 says:
"All 20 of the new 3000 series railcars have entered service with the STA. Power cars 3001 - 3008, and non power cars 3101 - 3112 will now join the 30/2000 series 'Jumbo' cars. These 50 'modern' railcars are still well outnumbered by the 88 Redhen vintage railcars."

From Catch Point March 1989:
"The State Government has announced a $80m project to introduce a further 50 new 3000 series suburban railcars. These cars, to be built interstate, will replace the 80 Redhen railcars which are nearing the end of their lives - after 30 years! Once delivered, this will bring the total 3000 series railcars to 70, and they will join the 30/2000 series railcars - making a total of 100 airconditioned suburban railcars for the Adelaide metropolitan services."

Not sure when the Clyde ones started coming, the September 1992 Catch Point says that more have arrived so presumably some time in 1992 before late August?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
All it needs is one person on a big fatty convenience tank "mobility scooter" to make a clumsy 37 point turn (as opposed to a genuine wheelchair which can rotate on the spot)...
justapassenger
LOL. Now, now... not all of them are in a scooter because they've eaten themselves into a permanent chair. Although I'd have to agree that a significant proportion definitely have - I see one such person at my local shopping centre quite frequently loading up with cakes from the bakery... they asked her the other day "Which cake would you like?" and she responded "All of them" (not a joke unfortunately!). And the problem is that once you've become so obese that you need a scooter/wheelchair it actually makes your situation worse because you're not getting incidental exercise any longer. Oh well... testimony to the resilience of the human body that these people manage to keep on going...

On the topic of disabled access, I've noticed recently that many stations are now equipped with the special raised platform section near the driver's cab which (apparently) eliminates the need for the driver to get out and put a ramp down? I noticed a person in an electric wheelchair getting on a train completely unassisted at a Seaford line station recently so it appears to be working as intended.

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