Why are New South Welshmen more anti-rail trail than other states?

 
  Mad Panda Station Master

Location: NSW Australia
The case for Rail Trails long term economic benefit has not been assessed so why would you remove vital transport infrastructure for a small number of people who may occasionally use parts of it?  Once it is gone it is gone as SA and Vic will atest.  NSW has a more mature and business supportive approach to rail.  This is also the case in Queensland.  Sadly this is gone and Vic and SA who have become rai rustbelts. Simples
NSWGR8022

Its more about social and community benefit.  The whole economic benefit thing, for any community infrastructure, really doesn't hold up.  Its like applying accounting rules to a neighborhood park.  We all have a park close by, what is the economic benefit? I think its the wrong question. We should be asking, "what are the community benefits?"  Without community, we are nothing.  Its not always about the dollar

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  hnougher Beginner

Location: Closed portion of Main Northern Line
Here is an example of a proposed Rail Trail which is I think is doomed to fail.

There has been some push for one in the vicinity of Guyra. Small town, doing better now there is a tomato green house. Might do even better if Bauxite mine goes ahead (in which case possibly >34million tonne will be trying to use the railway to some port). Got a community exercise trail a few years back that gets maybe 10 users. No-one uses bikes because its either too hot or too cold (or at least I never see them on any street).

Railway near Guyra is pretty much flat boring landscape with maybe a sheep or cow in the first few km. Additionally from Black Mountain to Ben Lomond alone the entire distance there is a very quiet and sealed road going right beside the railway at pretty much the same gradient minus a few cuts (within 3-5m at all times). Google maps "from:Black Mountain, New South Wales to:ben lomond" in bike mode.

If I had to recommend anywhere it would be either Ben Lomond to Glencoe or Black Mountain toward Armidale. Both lovely scenery, a long single direction slope and has no good existing alternatives. No one considers them though.

Happy to be proven wrong.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

In any case we are starting to get off topic. We don't hate bike trails it is just that to get to some of these bike trails is not exactly an easy trip. They also tend to be quite steep vs trails in Victoria which are flat as pancakes and due to Victoria's small size, easy to get to.
You bet we're off topic, and dead right that rail trails in Vic are not only very different to here, but also have another working railway close by.

Take a working railway away here to turn into a rail trail and the nearest one would be the same distance away as from Melbourne to Albury...at the closest.
Grantham

So your point is that railtrails as far away from Melbourne as Albury wouldn't be successful?

Wangaratta to Beechworth and Bright. Rutherglen to Wahgunyah. Bandianna - Tallangatta.

All railtrails. All quite close to Albury. All successful. (Incidentally, not all of these are as flat as a pancake, either.)

This whole argument reminds me of the time, a couple of years ago, when the Sydney City Council suggested that there might be an opening for little hole in the wall bars and (licensed) cafes in Sydney laneways. After all, they seemed to be enormously successful in Melbourne and have completely changed how the city is being used. Oh no, cried the hoteliers. Sydney is completely different to Melbourne and what works there won't work here...
  Mad Panda Station Master

Location: NSW Australia
Here is an example of a proposed Rail Trail which is I think is doomed to fail.

There has been some push for one in the vicinity of Guyra. Small town, doing better now there is a tomato green house. ......

If I had to recommend anywhere it would be either Ben Lomond to Glencoe or Black Mountain toward Armidale. Both lovely scenery, a long single direction slope and has no good existing alternatives. No one considers them though.

Happy to be proven wrong.
hnougher
I'm unfamiliar with the area, beyond having driven the NEH a few times.

Some network theory (sorry, its a maths thing)

A rail trail is a network link.  It will be well patronised (I don't like the word fail) if the link connects to nodes.

The nodes can't be any nodes. They have to be nodes with the right attributes to appeal to the likely users of the planned link.

The well used trails in Vic connect points of interest whilst providing amenity to a diverse user group.  They also work better when they are long!  100-150km. That sort of thing.  Armidale to Guyra may be a start, but I wouldn't really know.  What i do know is that people will travel if they are good enough.  The Ovens Valley combines its scenery, history, alpine activities and so on with a rail trail. They are a small part of a bigger picture. Thats when they work.  If Guyra wants an RT or a heritage train to work, it can't be done as "one off".  There has to be bigger plan.

That sort of thinking is short supply here in NSW
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Here is an example of a proposed Rail Trail which is I think is doomed to fail.

There has been some push for one in the vicinity of Guyra. Small town, doing better now there is a tomato green house. ......

If I had to recommend anywhere it would be either Ben Lomond to Glencoe or Black Mountain toward Armidale. Both lovely scenery, a long single direction slope and has no good existing alternatives. No one considers them though.

Happy to be proven wrong.
I'm unfamiliar with the area, beyond having driven the NEH a few times.

Some network theory (sorry, its a maths thing)

A rail trail is a network link.  It will be well patronised (I don't like the word fail) if the link connects to nodes.

The nodes can't be any nodes. They have to be nodes with the right attributes to appeal to the likely users of the planned link.

The well used trails in Vic connect points of interest whilst providing amenity to a diverse user group.  They also work better when they are long!  100-150km. That sort of thing.  Armidale to Guyra may be a start, but I wouldn't really know.  What i do know is that people will travel if they are good enough.  The Ovens Valley combines its scenery, history, alpine activities and so on with a rail trail. They are a small part of a bigger picture. Thats when they work.  If Guyra wants an RT or a heritage train to work, it can't be done as "one off".  There has to be bigger plan.

That sort of thinking is short supply here in NSW
Mad Panda

Armidale is 7 hours from Sydney and 5 from Newcastle by car. The only viable users might be the local university students but tourism is not really an Armidale thing. Victoria is different because most of the trails are not that far from Melbourne. 7 hours travel from Melbourne takes you into another state all together.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

In any case we are starting to get off topic. We don't hate bike trails it is just that to get to some of these bike trails is not exactly an easy trip. They also tend to be quite steep vs trails in Victoria which are flat as pancakes and due to Victoria's small size, easy to get to.
You bet we're off topic, and dead right that rail trails in Vic are not only very different to here, but also have another working railway close by.

Take a working railway away here to turn into a rail trail and the nearest one would be the same distance away as from Melbourne to Albury...at the closest.

So your point is that railtrails as far away from Melbourne as Albury wouldn't be successful?

Wangaratta to Beechworth and Bright. Rutherglen to Wahgunyah. Bandianna - Tallangatta.

All railtrails. All quite close to Albury. All successful. (Incidentally, not all of these are as flat as a pancake, either.)

This whole argument reminds me of the time, a couple of years ago, when the Sydney City Council suggested that there might be an opening for little hole in the wall bars and (licensed) cafes in Sydney laneways. After all, they seemed to be enormously successful in Melbourne and have completely changed how the city is being used. Oh no, cried the hoteliers. Sydney is completely different to Melbourne and what works there won't work here...
historian

Those rail trails might be successful but it is more likely to do with local populations then tourists from Melbourne.

If a rail trail on the old Casino to Murwillumbah line was built it too would be more about connecting local communities rather then tourism
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Here is an example of a proposed Rail Trail which is I think is doomed to fail.

There has been some push for one in the vicinity of Guyra. ... Additionally from Black Mountain to Ben Lomond alone the entire distance there is a very quiet and sealed road going right beside the railway at pretty much the same gradient minus a few cuts (within 3-5m at all times). Google maps "from:Black Mountain, New South Wales to:ben lomond" in bike mode.

If I had to recommend anywhere it would be either Ben Lomond to Glencoe or Black Mountain toward Armidale. Both lovely scenery, a long single direction slope and has no good existing alternatives. No one considers them though.
hnougher


Dead right.  No-one is going to drive 8hrs to do a 20km bike ride, and a boring one at that.


They cater more for walkers and passive recreational activities rather than the lycra types.  Its also ironic, that all I know about rail trails, I've learnt on a Railpage Australia™!  Clearly there must be some synchronicity!
Mad Panda

All too true.  Rail Trains aren't used by real cyclists.  They are used by newbies, kids and the infirmed.  

This is the reason rail-trail projects are very hard to get off the ground.  Someone on the local council says "hey, lets do a rail trail", then hands it over to the local cycling club expecting them to organise it.  It's like saying "let's hold a dog show", then expecting the punters at the local greyhound track to organise it.

That said, there is a huge market of casual/infrequent/prospective cyclists who'd like to do more but "it's too dangerous".  Part of the reason the Otago Rail Trail is such a huge success is it's long enough to be a mutli-day challenge, but easy enough that pretty much anyone with the desire can do it.

In NSW I think there are two or three outstanding rail trail opportunities.  The best one is Goulburn-Crookwell.  Varied scenery, decent facilities, rail line completely useless and unrevivable (it was useless in operation!), good public transport access.  But most importantly it's 2hrs from the largest market in Australia with a complete absence of such facilities.  At 50km it's a fraction short.

Murwillumbah to Lismore also has potential, but IMHO would need to be connected to the Gold Coast with a similar standard facility, but preferably all the way to Brisbane (there is sort of a bike route/path some of the way already).  That's a multi-day challenge through a developed tourist area and it will attract more visitors.

The third is the New England bike route.  Today, that is potentially Armidale to Warrick.  400 odd km putting it in the Otago Rail Trail category of facility.  But it could easily be Armidale to Toowoomba if the Dirrimbandi line bites the dust.  And if the Inland Rail project goes head, much of the formation from Toowoomba to Ipswitch will be available.  I know an awful lot of ducks need to line up here, but there is the potential for there to be a Brisbane - Tamworth route, and that would be an international attraction.
  mikado5910 Chief Train Controller

Location: Kurri Kurri NSW
The question in the current state of local government in NSW is that of how these projects are financed.

I am well-versed in the planning process for the Richmond Vale Rail Trail, which has been underway for over four years. Even though there is support from Coal and Allied and some other stakeholders, and the three councils involved have agreed to take the plans forward, there are complex landholding issues and other planning concerns to be overcome before the work can commence. To complete the work to the standard which some wish to see the estimated budget is $15million. Even to a basic standard it will take several million - there is a current grant application to fill in the gaps on a pre-existing cycleway in the district with a budget of $4.3million.

The local councils don't have that much small change in their budgets, and if they are to be amalgamated under the current political process then they are facing a four-year rates freeze, so it just becomes harder. The only way it's going to happen is by grant support from government.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
In any case we are starting to get off topic. We don't hate bike trails it is just that to get to some of these bike trails is not exactly an easy trip. They also tend to be quite steep vs trails in Victoria which are flat as pancakes and due to Victoria's small size, easy to get to.
You bet we're off topic, and dead right that rail trails in Vic are not only very different to here, but also have another working railway close by.

Take a working railway away here to turn into a rail trail and the nearest one would be the same distance away as from Melbourne to Albury...at the closest.

So your point is that railtrails as far away from Melbourne as Albury wouldn't be successful?

Wangaratta to Beechworth and Bright. Rutherglen to Wahgunyah. Bandianna - Tallangatta.

All railtrails. All quite close to Albury. All successful. (Incidentally, not all of these are as flat as a pancake, either.)

This whole argument reminds me of the time, a couple of years ago, when the Sydney City Council suggested that there might be an opening for little hole in the wall bars and (licensed) cafes in Sydney laneways. After all, they seemed to be enormously successful in Melbourne and have completely changed how the city is being used. Oh no, cried the hoteliers. Sydney is completely different to Melbourne and what works there won't work here...
historian
Ummmm...you hit the nail on the head without realising.

"All quite close to Albury."
In other words, all quite close to existing rail transport. In fact there is a container terminal near there and everything. It's different if you close or lift a line that is hundreds of kilometres to the nearest existing rail transport, which was my point - lifting lines in a tiny state only a few miles from another railway line is rather less damaging.

M
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

All too true.  Rail Trains aren't used by real cyclists.  They are used by newbies, kids and the infirmed.  
....

That said, there is a huge market of casual/infrequent/prospective cyclists who'd like to do more but "it's too dangerous".  Part of the reason the Otago Rail Trail is such a huge success is it's long enough to be a mutli-day challenge, but easy enough that pretty much anyone with the desire can do it.

In NSW I think there are two or three outstanding rail trail opportunities.  The best one is Goulburn-Crookwell.  Varied scenery, decent facilities, rail line completely useless and unrevivable (it was useless in operation!), good public transport access.  But most importantly it's 2hrs from the largest market in Australia with a complete absence of such facilities.  At 50km it's a fraction short.

Murwillumbah to Lismore also has potential, but IMHO would need to be connected to the Gold Coast with a similar standard facility, but preferably all the way to Brisbane (there is sort of a bike route/path some of the way already).  That's a multi-day challenge through a developed tourist area and it will attract more visitors.

The third is the New England bike route.  Today, that is potentially Armidale to Warrick.  400 odd km putting it in the Otago Rail Trail category of facility.  But it could easily be Armidale to Toowoomba if the Dirrimbandi line bites the dust.  And if the Inland Rail project goes head, much of the formation from Toowoomba to Ipswitch will be available.  I know an awful lot of ducks need to line up here, but there is the potential for there to be a Brisbane - Tamworth route, and that would be an international attraction.
djf01
Crockwell to me is going to be limited success
Pro's
- 50km long, scenic, 2hr by car from Sydney, 3hr by train, Crockwell is a reasonably serviced town, O/N return at Crockwell.

Con's
- Nothing along the route with regard to facilities, nothing beyond Crockwell, only the fitter will do a day return, need to back track from Crockwell to get back to car/train

Murwillumbah line, should prove fairly sucess
Pro's
- Location on edge of Gold Coast and 80min drive from Brisbane, start from Condong is only 15km from Kingscliff and I'm sure a low cost off hwy bike track could be built, regardless its not the main hwy anymore, plenty of towns along route for O/N or other facilities, public transport for return, potential for GC train to terminus, ride from there to Casino and return to Brisbane via XPT (or vice verse)

Con's
- hot humid climate for the summer, GC line terminates at Varsity Lakes, needs to get to airport, limited daily return on XPT and weird hours.

Note: no need for bike access to Brisbane and impractical anyway.

Northern Tablelands - Yes would be very popular
Pro's
- Scenic for many parts, lots of towns along route, is quite long (400km) and hence a holiday destination on its own, public transport access to Armidale, not humid, camping along ROW, Granite Belt is popular tourist attraction on its own

Con's
- Line from Toowoomba to Warwick still open, once closed due to Inland the RT could achieve its full potential and enable access to rail based public transport (assuming Westie still running or commute service started), hot summers

Agree with comments to the existing range crossing to Rosewood if it was also closed and released.


The later two options to me are the best bet and to achieve their full potential both state govts need to pull there finger out and get the facilities along the route, signage, international promotion, PT connections etc etc. I'd also throw in Gundagai - Tumut - Batlow and to make it a loop Tumbarumba to WW branch as well, but need to find a way to deal with the 30km gap between the two termini. Not sure if there is enough of the old alignment to Kunama from Batlow available to be recovered as this would cut out about 5km off the hwy to Tumba, but facilities are very limited and Batlow maybe more worthwhile.

Tassie's NE line is also idealic.

But to make any of them as successful as the Otago line, you need support services. Transport operators to take you back or to the next destination, facilities, shops and accommodation along the route etc etc. If there is nothing there, there is nothing to support the RT and nothing for users to spend money on.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
In any case we are starting to get off topic. We don't hate bike trails it is just that to get to some of these bike trails is not exactly an easy trip. They also tend to be quite steep vs trails in Victoria which are flat as pancakes and due to Victoria's small size, easy to get to.
You bet we're off topic, and dead right that rail trails in Vic are not only very different to here, but also have another working railway close by.

Take a working railway away here to turn into a rail trail and the nearest one would be the same distance away as from Melbourne to Albury...at the closest.

So your point is that railtrails as far away from Melbourne as Albury wouldn't be successful?

Wangaratta to Beechworth and Bright. Rutherglen to Wahgunyah. Bandianna - Tallangatta.

All railtrails. All quite close to Albury. All successful. (Incidentally, not all of these are as flat as a pancake, either.)

This whole argument reminds me of the time, a couple of years ago, when the Sydney City Council suggested that there might be an opening for little hole in the wall bars and (licensed) cafes in Sydney laneways. After all, they seemed to be enormously successful in Melbourne and have completely changed how the city is being used. Oh no, cried the hoteliers. Sydney is completely different to Melbourne and what works there won't work here...
Ummmm...you hit the nail on the head without realising.

"All quite close to Albury."
In other words, all quite close to existing rail transport. In fact there is a container terminal near there and everything. It's different if you close or lift a line that is hundreds of kilometres to the nearest existing rail transport, which was my point - lifting lines in a tiny state only a few miles from another railway line is rather less damaging.

M
Grantham


Most, if not all cyclists arrive by car. And I'd blace good bets on the locals using those rail trails infrequently at best, with a lot of summer user probably being high country tourists.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Cyclists do not arrive by car. They ride to where they are going and so a trail near a major population base will work. If someone has to drive a distance then it will only cater to a small die hard group and is more likely to fail.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Cyclists do not arrive by car. They ride to where they are going and so a trail near a major population base will work. If someone has to drive a distance then it will only cater to a small die hard group and is more likely to fail.
simstrain
From personal experience you're wrong. Many riders drive up usually as part of holiday plans, cycle some sort of short given distance and then return home/to a campsite/caravan site the same day. Only the die hard do full 25+km trips over multiple days.

Starting to sound like any excuse will do for it not to happen.......
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
People need to differentiate between thise long distance hwy riders using extremely expensive bikes wearing lyrca and tiny tyres that is all designed for speed on sealed roads. Verus what be considered off road type bike riding.

Easy surface and grades protected from traffic  with an easy pace, something to see and frequent places to stop will attract family and those not interested in mixing with trucks. As Otago has demonstrated.

We personally have a goal of riding Otago with my kids in next 2 years or Tas NE line if they can match the support services ie bike hire and return transport. We have zero interest in riding along the New England hwy/Snowy Moutain way/ old Pac hwy at Byron with my kids.

The issue in getting to these locations is for a couple not hard to strap two bikes to any car. For a family you need trailers or big cars.

If an RT was indeed sucessfull it may actually support a Heritage train operation on a short section of preserved track or access to location using govt owned track open for other uses as you have volumes of people on popular days. Oh wait Otago again. However this is not the end goal but rather service ralated business growing from a popular attraction.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Cyclists do not arrive by car.
simstrain

And Cyclists don't use rail trails.

We personally have a goal of riding Otago with my kids in next 2 years or Tas NE line if they can match the support services ie bike hire and return transport. We have zero interest in riding along the New England hwy/Snowy Moutain way/ old Pac hwy at Byron with my kids.
RTT_Rules

See what I mean?  They are for people who aren't "real" cyclists but want to have a crack at it.

In my case, the Otago rail trail is one of the few bits of the South Island of New Zealand I haven't cycled.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
From Wiki

The Otago Central Rail Trail is a 150-kilometre walking, cycling and horse riding track in the South Island of New Zealand. A pioneering project for New Zealand, the successful cycle trail joined the New Zealand Cycle Trail umbrella organisation in 2012, having been one of the inspirations for it.[2][3]

The trail runs in an arc between Middlemarch and Clyde, along the route of the former Otago Central Railway. The trail has become a popular tourist attraction, with 10,000-12,000 users per year as a conservative estimate, and yearly (and ongoing) user increases for 6 out of the last 7 years (as of 2011).[1][4] The trail is also accepted as being, by a large margin, the biggest non-farming economic factor in the Maniototo-Alexandra area


The trail starts at Middlemarch in the east, loops north through the spectacular countryside of the Strath Taieri and the Maniototo to end at Clyde, on the banks of the Clutha River. The return journey to Middlemarch or Dunedin can be made on foot or by bicycle over the historic Old Dunstan Road, used by the early gold miners to access Central Otago. It traverses open country with little accommodation or food between the typical stops. Users need to be self-sufficient for much of each day.

However, the towns in the area have developed facilities for trail users, and companies have been developed to aid travellers on the trail, such as transporting luggage between destinations. Due to the increasing numbers of pubs now available on the track route, the trail has also been nicknamed the 'Ale Trail' instead of 'Rail Trail'.[7] (the part I'm looking for)

To enjoy the scenery, the engineering involved in building the railway and the towns and people along the way, 5–7 days should be allowed to walk the Trail or 3–5 days to cycle it.[7] The trail starts at 201 metres (660 ft) above sea level in Middlemarch and rises at its highest point to 618 metres (2,028 ft) between Ranfurly and Oturehua. On the journey it passes through three tunnels and over several large viaducts. A torch (flashlight) is advised for the tunnels. The trail is well maintained and signposted. Toilets are available at several points and the contours are best described as easy, having been built to allow steam trains to climb the gentle inclines even in winter, with frost on the rails.[8]

The trail passes through or past several small towns. Mountain bikes can be rented from outlets in Middlemarch, Ranfurly, Alexandra and Clyde. Some of these cycle shops will also provide transport for riders and bikes, and will move luggage. The trail is very popular, and accommodation should be booked well in advance during busy periods such as long weekends and holidays.


The trail is used by 10,000-12,000 users per year as a conservative estimate (14,000 in other estimates)[2] and up to 80,000 further (mostly local) users of part sections.[4] The Poolburn Gorge section was the most popular, with around 24,000 yearly users.[1] Trail patronage is counted using electronic counters, with the numbers at four remote locations extrapolated to estimate the whole trail usage, as not all riders ride the full trail.[1]

The users of the trail have been shown as approximately 9% guided tour customers, 50% independent travellers (renting a bicycle) and 41% New Zealanders bringing their own bicycles.[9]

A business evaluation has credited the trail with supporting around 1,000 full and part-time jobs,[10] and having created 200 additional or part-time jobs.[6]

Annual maintenance and development costs for the trail have been estimated at somewhat over $316,000

Maintenance costs of $316kpa is chicken feed for an an attraction that brings that many people to the region.


This for a route 150km long at the smeg end of NZ. I think the previous posters suggestion of a trial on the New England from Armidale to Warwick (300km) would be more popular.

Rail trails are more than just bike riders, hikers and horse riders.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11384063.htm

Back to the original post...I saw part of a news item (I normally avoid news like the plague) about building a tram line in Adelaide, it quoted the price of the tramway (and I quoted earlier a similar price for the most recent light rail) of $30,000,000 per kilometre. If you remove track, promising to replace it if traffic warrants it will be at least this expensive. Not a great move when the nearest railhead might be 300km away, as is the case in NSW. Even junk track can be made serviceable for one one thousandth of that price if you count the line closest to me that has recently been reopened at a cost of $30,000 per km (closed between 1970 and 2000).

M
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Cyclists do not arrive by car. They ride to where they are going and so a trail near a major population base will work. If someone has to drive a distance then it will only cater to a small die hard group and is more likely to fail.
From personal experience you're wrong. Many riders drive up usually as part of holiday plans, cycle some sort of short given distance and then return home/to a campsite/caravan site the same day. Only the die hard do full 25+km trips over multiple days.

Starting to sound like any excuse will do for it not to happen.......
speedemon08

That is also a very small amount of people. The successful ones take advantage of significant local populations. The other thing we don't really have in Sydney is the cycling population that Melbourne and even places like Geelong have. You see people on bikes everywhere in those places. You just don't see that amount of people riding bikes in Sydney. We are more of a walking and swimming city.
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
The Land Newspaper last week has another article:
http://www.theland.com.au/story/3843432/tumbarumba-united-against-rail-trail-plans/?cs=1
Mention rail trail to Tumbarumba’s Bobby Burgun and you’ll get a cool reception.

Feel-good promises of tourists gazing around the sights of his 1000-acre property “Wattledale” doesn’t cut it for Mr Burgun. Nor does tourists buying coffee at local shops, or the predicted “spend” in the local economy.

He runs 1200 sheep and reckons he’s been “harassed” for 12 years about the disused rail line cutting through his property. Mr Burgun remembers when trains actually plied the lines, reckoning it’s been about 45 years since the last one rolled by. He’s the third generation of his family to farm “Wattledale”, says he’ll be the last, and says his main gripe is the bio-security risk opening up the rail line to the public will pose to the place.

“Imagine if I had disease on the place, I’d be quarantined for possibly years,” he said.

He said 23 properties would be affected on a 23km stretch of the disused line and 21 of those landholders had organised themselves into a committee to fight a proposal to rehabilitate and open it up to the public. “It cuts right through the middle of my place,” said Mr Burgun.

“There’s hobby farmers, there’s large farms and it’s a risk,” he said. He said rail trail proponents wanted a five-metre corridor along the length of the line. “At one stage they said ‘we’ll provide the materials and you can fence it’, I’ve got plenty of my own fencing to do.”

Mr Burgun said he would eventually be looking to sell “Wattledale” and he believes, no matter what happened on the property after he’s gone, the trail would devalue it.

Stephen and Julie Roe run 1800 Angus breeders on “Bunloit” along the line that cuts through their enterprise and they’re not happy with the proposal either.

NSW Farmers believes farmers wear all the risks when it comes to rail trails, for questionable reward. NSW Farmers president Derek Schoen believes the government must engage with farmers and recognise their opposition to the Tumbarumba-Rosewood pilot trail.

“There must be clear mechanisms for government to engage such strong opposition,” he said. Unless farmers supported the project no money from the public purse should be committed to it, he said.
The Land
It is another narrow-minded thought of farmers who believes they have a claim of ownership of some-sort over the 5 metre wide corridor through their property and believes that people with bikes and hikers will bring 'diseases' and that it will cost him in fencing.

Fact is that since 1974 farmers just started to assume using property when the railways appeared not to use it. There were fences which slowly disappeared by age and stock just roam over it as it was one big paddock.

So with we can't have a rail trail and the Government is sure that rail will not return, make the farmers pay for the land then....
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
This Group/Facebook page was established not so much to bring trains back to the Main Northern Line (as they prob know that it won't happen), but it was formed to protest Rail Trails going by the media in 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/savethenorthernrailline/

Really? They need to move on. I have travelled and stayed in many places north of Armidale. Besides being cold in Winter, it would be ideal for a Rail Trail from Armidale to Queensland. The same goes for entire Casino-Murwillumbah line. Don't just make part of it, make the entire line.

If I was still young and fit, I think it would be a fantastic holilday to cycle the couple hundred kilomteres of gentle sloping grade, camping at villages en route.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This Group/Facebook page was established not so much to bring trains back to the Main Northern Line (as they prob know that it won't happen), but it was formed to protest Rail Trails going by the media in 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/savethenorthernrailline/

Really? They need to move on. I have travelled and stayed in many places north of Armidale. Besides being cold in Winter, it would be ideal for a Rail Trail from Armidale to Queensland. The same goes for entire Casino-Murwillumbah line. Don't just make part of it, make the entire line.

If I was still young and fit, I think it would be a fantastic holilday to cycle the couple hundred kilomteres of gentle sloping grade, camping at villages en route.
Jim K
Jim,
I'm sure you could do it at your own pace. Otago is quoted at 3 to 5 days for 150km. With so many (pub) stops along the way you have plenty of time to turn check out all the facilities and take your own pace.
  Mad Panda Station Master

Location: NSW Australia
This Group/Facebook page was established not so much to bring trains back to the Main Northern Line (as they prob know that it won't happen), but it was formed to protest Rail Trails going by the media in 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/savethenorthernrailline/

Really? They need to move on. I have travelled and stayed in many places north of Armidale. Besides being cold in Winter, it would be ideal for a Rail Trail from Armidale to Queensland. The same goes for entire Casino-Murwillumbah line. Don't just make part of it, make the entire line.

If I was still young and fit, I think it would be a fantastic holilday to cycle the couple hundred kilomteres of gentle sloping grade, camping at villages en route.
Jim K
At Bright VIC, there is a business that hires out ebikes to folks such as yourself! I recommend going there for the steak, wine and trout!  In any event, a roll down an old rail line on an e-bike is great fun too!
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
At Bright VIC, there is a business that hires out ebikes to folks such as yourself! I recommend going there for the steak, wine and trout!  In any event, a roll down an old rail line on an e-bike is great fun too!
Mad Panda
This is great stuff, ebike for rail trails so those physically challenged can also access.
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
This Group/Facebook page was established not so much to bring trains back to the Main Northern Line (as they prob know that it won't happen), but it was formed to protest Rail Trails going by the media in 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/savethenorthernrailline/

Really? They need to move on. I have travelled and stayed in many places north of Armidale. Besides being cold in Winter, it would be ideal for a Rail Trail from Armidale to Queensland. The same goes for entire Casino-Murwillumbah line. Don't just make part of it, make the entire line.

If I was still young and fit, I think it would be a fantastic holilday to cycle the couple hundred kilomteres of gentle sloping grade, camping at villages en route.
At Bright VIC, there is a business that hires out ebikes to folks such as yourself! I recommend going there for the steak, wine and trout!  In any event, a roll down an old rail line on an e-bike is great fun too!
Mad Panda
Sounds wonderful. I hope that something happens in NSW for the the Grandkids future and not leave rotting tracks on land that no one will use except farmers who just assume it is theres to use.
  Mad Panda Station Master

Location: NSW Australia
Here is an example of a proposed Rail Trail which is I think is doomed to fail.

............


Dead right.  No-one is going to drive 8hrs to do a 20km bike ride, and a boring one at that.


They cater more for walkers and passive recreational activities rather than the lycra types.  Its also ironic, that all I know about rail trails, I've learnt on a Railpage Australia™!  Clearly there must be some synchronicity!
All too true.  Rail Trains aren't used by real cyclists.  They are used by newbies, kids and the infirmed.  

djf01
Whoa there!!  Real cyclists???  There's no such thing!!  Like talking about real joggers, real walkers, real drivers or swimmers!

They are used by the community. Period.  As such, it is generally community groups advocating for rail trails. Not cycling bodys per se

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