Electrification of V/Line lines

 
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Both are on the agenda. A $5 million study on reconnecting Upfield to Somerton as the necessary first step towards Wallan electrification has been funded in the 2016 Victorian state budget. The ALP has made a federal election commitment to funding a Baxter electrification study.

I daresay they're more likely to occur in the short term than extensions to Wyndham Vale or past Cranbourne.

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Queensland has electric trains running all the way up to Cairns, Sydney has long distance electric trains, and let's not forget The Mandurah Line in Perth which is about the same distance between Melbourne and Geelong, and Europe has long distance electric trains all over the place. Here in Australia we are so behind in terms of good public transport Infrastructure. We need to catch up or we are going to get left behind.

As far as I know, Geelong Electrification is on the cards and has been for many years. I think track duplication beyond Geelong Station should also be done at the time. I know it might not be feasible now to extend electrification to places such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour and Traralgon (Traralgon used to be electrified), but I think at the very least they should start planning for the future in regard to those lines. In the not too distant future Melbourne probably grow and swallow up those areas, so I think a bit of forward planning wouldn't go astray
dollarbill85

I've not read so much nonsense in these pages for a long time.

To clarify, Queensland has one Electric Multiple Unit...1 (that's ONE) EMU running way less than half way to Cairns, the Rockhampton Tilt train and for that ONE train, QR must maintain all the overhead wires from Gympie North (the limit of its metro sparks) to Rockhampton, a distance of around 480Km.

Why, in your opinion are we SO FAR behind the rest of the world in our PT infrastructure Question...it works perfectly well from where I travel.
We've purchased over the past 10 years and are continuing to do so... something like 300 VLocity carriages, do you suggest we scrap all these in the next say 10 or 15 years to spend even more unnecessary $$ on overheads and EMU's to Ballarat and Bendigo et al.

Yeah I can see Melbourne spreading from Sunbury to Bendigo in the next few years, all 125 Km of it....Oh look....I think I see a FLYING PIG Exclamation

Mike.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Both are on the agenda. A $5 million study on reconnecting Upfield to Somerton as the necessary first step towards Wallan electrification has been funded in the 2016 Victorian state budget. The ALP has made a federal election commitment to funding a Baxter electrification study.

I daresay they're more likely to occur in the short term than extensions to Wyndham Vale or past Cranbourne.
LancedDendrite
I did read that article. I know that Wallan was part of the former Napthine Government's network development plan, i just wasn't sure what the current government's position was on it.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Queensland has electric trains running all the way up to Cairns, Sydney has long distance electric trains, and let's not forget The Mandurah Line in Perth which is about the same distance between Melbourne and Geelong, and Europe has long distance electric trains all over the place. Here in Australia we are so behind in terms of good public transport Infrastructure. We need to catch up or we are going to get left behind.

As far as I know, Geelong Electrification is on the cards and has been for many years. I think track duplication beyond Geelong Station should also be done at the time. I know it might not be feasible now to extend electrification to places such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour and Traralgon (Traralgon used to be electrified), but I think at the very least they should start planning for the future in regard to those lines. In the not too distant future Melbourne probably grow and swallow up those areas, so I think a bit of forward planning wouldn't go astray

I've not read so much nonsense in these pages for a long time.

To clarify, Queensland has one Electric Multiple Unit...1 (that's ONE) EMU running way less than half way to Cairns, the Rockhampton Tilt train and for that ONE train, QR must maintain all the overhead wires from Gympie North (the limit of its metro sparks) to Rockhampton, a distance of around 480Km.

Why, in your opinion are we SO FAR behind the rest of the world in our PT infrastructure Question...it works perfectly well from where I travel.
We've purchased over the past 10 years and are continuing to do so... something like 300 VLocity carriages, do you suggest we scrap all these in the next say 10 or 15 years to spend even more unnecessary $$ on overheads and EMU's to Ballarat and Bendigo et al.

Yeah I can see Melbourne spreading from Sunbury to Bendigo in the next few years, all 125 Km of it....Oh look....I think I see a FLYING PIG Exclamation

Mike.
The Vinelander
Yep, it works perfectly well from where you are, so that means we must have world class OT infrastructure, especially rail. Yeah whatever!!

We've purchased over the past 10 years and are continuing to do so... something like 300 VLocity carriages, do you suggest we scrap all these in the next say 10 or 15 years to spend even more unnecessary $$ on overheads and EMU's to Ballarat and Bendigo et al.

I am not suggesting that we electrify everywhere, but where else in the world would spend $6 Million per carriage on a diesel train whose maximum speed is 100 mph? Whatever way you look at it V/Locity trains are eye wateringly expensive for what they are.

Michael
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Queensland has electric trains running all the way up to Cairns, Sydney has long distance electric trains, and let's not forget The Mandurah Line in Perth which is about the same distance between Melbourne and Geelong, and Europe has long distance electric trains all over the place. Here in Australia we are so behind in terms of good public transport Infrastructure. We need to catch up or we are going to get left behind.

As far as I know, Geelong Electrification is on the cards and has been for many years. I think track duplication beyond Geelong Station should also be done at the time. I know it might not be feasible now to extend electrification to places such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour and Traralgon (Traralgon used to be electrified), but I think at the very least they should start planning for the future in regard to those lines. In the not too distant future Melbourne probably grow and swallow up those areas, so I think a bit of forward planning wouldn't go astray

I've not read so much nonsense in these pages for a long time.

To clarify, Queensland has one Electric Multiple Unit...1 (that's ONE) EMU running way less than half way to Cairns, the Rockhampton Tilt train and for that ONE train, QR must maintain all the overhead wires from Gympie North (the limit of its metro sparks) to Rockhampton, a distance of around 480Km.

Why, in your opinion are we SO FAR behind the rest of the world in our PT infrastructure Question...it works perfectly well from where I travel.
We've purchased over the past 10 years and are continuing to do so... something like 300 VLocity carriages, do you suggest we scrap all these in the next say 10 or 15 years to spend even more unnecessary $$ on overheads and EMU's to Ballarat and Bendigo et al.

Yeah I can see Melbourne spreading from Sunbury to Bendigo in the next few years, all 125 Km of it....Oh look....I think I see a FLYING PIG Exclamation

Mike.
mejhammers1
Don't belittle me just because my source of that information got it wrong!!!

I don't know where you're living, but where I am living the public transport isn't good at all. Most of the line here is single track, most weekday services are run as a shuttle which means sometimes changing trains 3 times just to get to Parliament Station, and the bus is only every 40 minutes on weekdays, 80 minutes on Saturdays, and no service at all on Sundays.

And don't put words my mouth ok? I never suggested anything of the sort. And who's to say they can't be converted to electric traction someday? It doesn't seem to me like you even read my comment at all, because you seem to be pulling stuff out of thin air, things that I never even said.

Well that is what the future looks like, you obviously have no vision, you are one of those people who thinks things are fine the way they are. If you want to keep living like it's the 1950's go ahead, while everybody else moves forward. You're nothing but a right-wing nutbag!!! Go Home.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Queensland has electric trains running all the way up to Cairns, Sydney has long distance electric trains, and let's not forget The Mandurah Line in Perth which is about the same distance between Melbourne and Geelong, and Europe has long distance electric trains all over the place. Here in Australia we are so behind in terms of good public transport Infrastructure. We need to catch up or we are going to get left behind.

As far as I know, Geelong Electrification is on the cards and has been for many years. I think track duplication beyond Geelong Station should also be done at the time. I know it might not be feasible now to extend electrification to places such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour and Traralgon (Traralgon used to be electrified), but I think at the very least they should start planning for the future in regard to those lines. In the not too distant future Melbourne probably grow and swallow up those areas, so I think a bit of forward planning wouldn't go astray

I've not read so much nonsense in these pages for a long time.

To clarify, Queensland has one Electric Multiple Unit...1 (that's ONE) EMU running way less than half way to Cairns, the Rockhampton Tilt train and for that ONE train, QR must maintain all the overhead wires from Gympie North (the limit of its metro sparks) to Rockhampton, a distance of around 480Km.

Why, in your opinion are we SO FAR behind the rest of the world in our PT infrastructure Question...it works perfectly well from where I travel.
We've purchased over the past 10 years and are continuing to do so... something like 300 VLocity carriages, do you suggest we scrap all these in the next say 10 or 15 years to spend even more unnecessary $$ on overheads and EMU's to Ballarat and Bendigo et al.

Yeah I can see Melbourne spreading from Sunbury to Bendigo in the next few years, all 125 Km of it....Oh look....I think I see a FLYING PIG Exclamation

Mike.

I don't know where you're living,...

Well that is what the future looks like, you obviously have no vision, you are one of those people who thinks things are fine the way they are. If you want to keep living like it's the 1950's go ahead, while everybody else moves forward. You're nothing but a right-wing nutbag!!! Go Home.
dollarbill85


Where I'm living is perfectly clear by my avatar.

I made a choice decades ago to live where I do because the PT was good....now it's fantastic and getting even better...yeah I guess I had no vision at all...

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Obvious to everyone is completing electrification to stony point and to Ballarat as the first major line. Warragul would be worthy of discussion but would only be DC whereas it would be very good to put Vline on AC like Queensland.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Queensland has electric trains running all the way up to Cairns, Sydney has long distance electric trains, and let's not forget The Mandurah Line in Perth which is about the same distance between Melbourne and Geelong, and Europe has long distance electric trains all over the place. Here in Australia we are so behind in terms of good public transport Infrastructure. We need to catch up or we are going to get left behind.

As far as I know, Geelong Electrification is on the cards and has been for many years. I think track duplication beyond Geelong Station should also be done at the time. I know it might not be feasible now to extend electrification to places such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour and Traralgon (Traralgon used to be electrified), but I think at the very least they should start planning for the future in regard to those lines. In the not too distant future Melbourne probably grow and swallow up those areas, so I think a bit of forward planning wouldn't go astray

I've not read so much nonsense in these pages for a long time.

To clarify, Queensland has one Electric Multiple Unit...1 (that's ONE) EMU running way less than half way to Cairns, the Rockhampton Tilt train and for that ONE train, QR must maintain all the overhead wires from Gympie North (the limit of its metro sparks) to Rockhampton, a distance of around 480Km.

Why, in your opinion are we SO FAR behind the rest of the world in our PT infrastructure Question...it works perfectly well from where I travel.
We've purchased over the past 10 years and are continuing to do so... something like 300 VLocity carriages, do you suggest we scrap all these in the next say 10 or 15 years to spend even more unnecessary $$ on overheads and EMU's to Ballarat and Bendigo et al.

Yeah I can see Melbourne spreading from Sunbury to Bendigo in the next few years, all 125 Km of it....Oh look....I think I see a FLYING PIG Exclamation

Mike.

I don't know where you're living,...

Well that is what the future looks like, you obviously have no vision, you are one of those people who thinks things are fine the way they are. If you want to keep living like it's the 1950's go ahead, while everybody else moves forward. You're nothing but a right-wing nutbag!!! Go Home.


Where I'm living is perfectly clear by my avatar.

I made a choice decades ago to live where I do because the PT was good....now it's fantastic and getting even better...yeah I guess I had no vision at all...

Mike.
The Vinelander
Just for the record, I have previously lived in Ballan so I know what it's like there.

Just to reiterate, I never suggested that the v/locity trains be scrapped, just convert them for electric traction when required. You put words in my mouth and shot down all of my ideas implying they were stupid and couldn't possibly be done. I am sick of naysayers like you putting people down like that, and no, you have no vision when it comes to PT issues, as for where chose to call home, I couldn't care less.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Obvious to everyone is completing electrification to stony point and to Ballarat as the first major line. Warragul would be worthy of discussion but would only be DC whereas it would be very good to put Vline on AC like Queensland.
freightgate
Long distance electric services are long overdue here, but I don't think the metro rolling stock would cope with such long trips, new rolling stock would be required.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
— mejhammers1and Kuldalai are spot on here.   With over 300 V'Locity cars in the system after current contracts are concluded there is no case for electrification for Geelong and Ballarat.   The Melton Electrification will come as part of the Melbourne Metro and its very logical that the Tarneit/Wyndham Vale sections also be electrified and treated as Metro services.   Extending electrification to Wallan is also quite a logical development as well.

A study on electrification of the Geelong Line was undertaken again in 2014/2015.  I think its either the 6th or 7th time.   Cost about $1.5 billion to deliver what???   More frequent services??  Can be done now!!!   160km/hr operation???   Done right now!!!    If you're going to spend more money on the system, extend the Werribbee Line around the corner to Wyndham Vale/Tarneit as it was meant to be and develop a proper interface for V/Line/Metro as it was meant to be.   Spend more money on network upgrades and capacity improvements.   We are loading the system up with heaps of new trains but I see little real deep infrastructure improvement and upgrade except as I foreshadowed with the Ballarat Line Capacity and Reliability Improvement.

We need to fix up capacity contstraints south of Geelong.   Enhance the capacity and reliability of the Bendigo Line and bring the Shepparton Line up to a "mini RFR" standard with level crossing upgrades, upgrade of the track for 130/140 km/r DMU operations rather than string wires for the sake of stringing wires with little or no material change to the network.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Have you considered the cost of running diesel on 300 rail cars compared to reducing environmental outputs from 300 cars ?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Have you considered the cost of running diesel on 300 rail cars compared to reducing environmental outputs from 300 cars ?
freightgate

That horse has long bolted from the stable...

Who would have thought back in 2005 that the fleet would grow from about 80 individual VLocity cars to what we have now.

Mike.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

To be honest the only reason you would consider electrifying anything beyond Melton/Wallan/Wyndham Vale in the short to medium term would be an oil crisis vastly more severe than 1973.

And even then we'd probably work out a way to run the current V/Lo fleet on bio-diesel or natural gas....

As a side-note: One of the most unpleasant things about V/Lo trains is diesel exhaust fumes finding their way into the passenger compartment.  I notice it.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks freightgate.   It is because we already have the 300 VLocities in place that I don't advocate for more extensive electrification.  The window very sadly has now well and truly closed to have looked at options for say electrification versus having 300 V'Locities.   I too am staggered at how much it must be costing in fuel and maintenance to have a fleet this large.  As early as 2007 the concept of a non-powered intermediate car for V'Locity sets was developed and should have been used extensively as a way of increasing set capacity whilst minimizing capital and operating costs.   Because I'm sitting on a plane with no access I cannot quote precisely but it cost roughly $2000 per round trip in fuel and maintenance costs to operate a 6 car V'Locity versus a 4 car set using 3 powered units and a 4th unpowered unit.  There are numerous daily services operated where a 4 car set would comfortably accommodate the loading offered with room for growth with a much lower operating cost versus the only option available now which is either 3 or 6 cars.   V/Line management absolutely point blankly refused to accept this option which will cost taxpayers and Governments literally hundreds of millions over the 30 year life of these vehicles.  So making it very clear the current strategy was wrong.   But the windows closed.   So use the $1.5 billion for electrification to do network upgrades and improve network and operational performance so that the 300 VLocities can be used to their ultimate potential with 30 minute frequencies for off peak services to the likes of Bendigo and Ballarat and the Latrobe, and invest a reasonably small amount of capital to do a decent makeover of the Shepparton and invest in the new long distance fleet to replace the N sets.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Just to reiterate, I never suggested that the v/locity trains be scrapped, just convert them for electric traction when required.
dollarbill85
Please supply a few previous examples of how things went when DMUs were converted to EMUs, and the cost of the conversion project compared to procuring new build vehicles.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

— mejhammers1and Kuldalai are spot on here.   With over 300 V'Locity cars in the system after current contracts are concluded there is no case for electrification for Geelong and Ballarat.   The Melton Electrification will come as part of the Melbourne Metro and its very logical that the Tarneit/Wyndham Vale sections also be electrified and treated as Metro services.   Extending electrification to Wallan is also quite a logical development as well.

A study on electrification of the Geelong Line was undertaken again in 2014/2015.  I think its either the 6th or 7th time.   Cost about $1.5 billion to deliver what???   More frequent services??  Can be done now!!!   160km/hr operation???   Done right now!!!    If you're going to spend more money on the system, extend the Werribbee Line around the corner to Wyndham Vale/Tarneit as it was meant to be and develop a proper interface for V/Line/Metro as it was meant to be.   Spend more money on network upgrades and capacity improvements.   We are loading the system up with heaps of new trains but I see little real deep infrastructure improvement and upgrade except as I foreshadowed with the Ballarat Line Capacity and Reliability Improvement.

We need to fix up capacity contstraints south of Geelong.   Enhance the capacity and reliability of the Bendigo Line and bring the Shepparton Line up to a "mini RFR" standard with level crossing upgrades, upgrade of the track for 130/140 km/r DMU operations rather than string wires for the sake of stringing wires with little or no material change to the network.
Trainplanner
I think the line south of Geelong Station has been earmarked for future duplication, not sure of the timeframe or details.
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Unpopular opinion post here. Who says you have to scrap VLocities displaced by an Electrification? Why not simply move them elsewhere to other lines?...

Let's put it this way. Let's assume Geelong was electrified. The sets displaced could be used to enhance services on other lines. Bendigo and Traralgon in particular, thanks to the long lengths of double track.

Not presenting an opinion either way on Electrification, but the notion that VLocity units must be scrapped for every EMU built is ludicrous.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Unpopular opinion post here. Who says you have to scrap VLocities displaced by an Electrification? Why not simply move them elsewhere to other lines?...

Let's put it this way. Let's assume Geelong was electrified. The sets displaced could be used to enhance services on other lines. Bendigo and Traralgon in particular, thanks to the long lengths of double track.

Not presenting an opinion either way on Electrification, but the notion that VLocity units must be scrapped for every EMU built is ludicrous.


Well I happen to agree. Not once did I say they should be scrapped
Flygon
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Unpopular opinion post here. Who says you have to scrap VLocities displaced by an Electrification? Why not simply move them elsewhere to other lines?...

Let's put it this way. Let's assume Geelong was electrified. The sets displaced could be used to enhance services on other lines. Bendigo and Traralgon in particular, thanks to the long lengths of double track.

Not presenting an opinion either way on Electrification, but the notion that VLocity units must be scrapped for every EMU built is ludicrous.
flygon


Well I happen to agree. Not once did I say they should be scrapped
dollarbill85


dollarbill85, you did state this before:


Just to reiterate, I never suggested that the v/locity trains be scrapped, just convert them for electric traction when required.
dollarbill85
dollarbill85


Trouble is to convert a Diesel Hydraulic Railmotor to Electric traction is basically scrapping the unit.  Flygon is right you would use the Velocities elsewhere.

To convert the Velocity one has to withdrawal them from service. Then gut the train, take the motor out, redo bogies complexly, refit ti with electrical control etc.  That is a lot of expense just to keep the seats and body. It would not make economic sense.

"if" electrifying - you would build a new train fit for purpose.


Regards,
David Head
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

— mejhammers1and Kuldalai are spot on here.   With over 300 V'Locity cars in the system after current contracts are concluded there is no case for electrification for Geelong and Ballarat.   The Melton Electrification will come as part of the Melbourne Metro and its very logical that the Tarneit/Wyndham Vale sections also be electrified and treated as Metro services.   Extending electrification to Wallan is also quite a logical development as well.

A study on electrification of the Geelong Line was undertaken again in 2014/2015.  I think its either the 6th or 7th time.   Cost about $1.5 billion to deliver what???   More frequent services??  Can be done now!!!   160km/hr operation???   Done right now!!!    If you're going to spend more money on the system, extend the Werribbee Line around the corner to Wyndham Vale/Tarneit as it was meant to be and develop a proper interface for V/Line/Metro as it was meant to be.   Spend more money on network upgrades and capacity improvements.   We are loading the system up with heaps of new trains but I see little real deep infrastructure improvement and upgrade except as I foreshadowed with the Ballarat Line Capacity and Reliability Improvement.

We need to fix up capacity contstraints south of Geelong.   Enhance the capacity and reliability of the Bendigo Line and bring the Shepparton Line up to a "mini RFR" standard with level crossing upgrades, upgrade of the track for 130/140 km/r DMU operations rather than string wires for the sake of stringing wires with little or no material change to the network.
Trainplanner
In a perverse sort of way the now former discredited management at V/Line in dictating a fleet of 75 X 3 car VL sets has now ensured two short term and one medium term outcome that would seem inevitable :

1.  Short term to handle increased peak pax loadings a further order of 30 - 35  strict trailer cars to make up a final VL fleet of half as 3 car sets and half as 4 car sets - allowing operation of peak VL consists up to 8 cars on Waurn Ponds and 7 Cars on Wendouree. Any more 3 car trains would be just be criminal in terms of both capex and operating costs, and lack of operational flexibility .
2. Extension of electrification to Melton and electrification of the RRL track pair from Southern Cross to Black Forrest Rd turnback., allowing Tarneit & Wyndamvale to be served by high speed Metro sparks .
3. Any new VLP rollingstock above an ultimate V/L fleet of 250 - 260  cars will be in the form of  13 - 15  new  Inter City type trains as 4 - 5 car consists either as DMU sets, or  Push/Pull  diesel electric type  trains with 160kmh capability within the  RFR area, and 130kmh on Class 2 track beyond .
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
In a perverse sort of way the now former discredited management at V/Line in dictating a fleet of 75 X 3 car VL sets has now ensured two short term and one medium term outcome that would seem inevitable :

1.  Short term to handle increased peak pax loadings a further order of 30 - 35  strict trailer cars to make up a final VL fleet of half as 3 car sets and half as 4 car sets - allowing operation of peak VL consists up to 8 cars on Waurn Ponds and 7 Cars on Wendouree. Any more 3 car trains would be just be criminal in terms of both capex and operating costs, and lack of operational flexibility .
kuldalai

Agreed..Exclamation

I can speak from personal experience as a daily traveller of the occasions when a 6 car VLocity with a failed car (no operating engine) which when put to the test climbing the Ingliston Bank have no problems in maintaining the timetable.

As the Ingliston Bank is probably the longest and steepest haul for a VLocity, IMO a strictly non-powered car could easily be added to a 6 car set without affecting the timetable, though the other 5 cars would obviously have to work harder to make up the shortfall in power.

Mike.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
As outlined in other threads.  There have been 2 sets of performance trials of operating 2 x 2 car V'Locity units with 1 car of the 4 isolated.  Even taking account of some rolling resistance of the isolated car and its additional weight which would not be the case with a totally unpowered intermediate car, the impact on performance and fuel consumption was to quote "insignificant".   As more technical posters will be able to better elaborate than me, a lot of energy on higher speed trains like the V'Locity is overcoming wind resistance.   The V'Locity aerodynamically is very efficient so when you upgrade from the original 2 car version and add the third card there is no additional wind resistance to overcome so that then crudely translates to the ability to then add the 4th non-powered intermediate car that again doesn't need to overcome such resistance but the output of the 3 powered units can comfortably accommodate the 4th car.

Importantly the 4th car has a very large passenger capacity.  The central exhaust module in the middle of the car is not required, nor are additional toilets or disabled bays needed so you get a substantial increase in seating capacity which is why the 4 car version can easily accommodate the demand on a very large number of services that you must use  a 6 car set now.  

Especially taking into account a future upgrade of the Shepparton Line which I've referred to before as being relatively low cost to upgrade level crossings, provide a fully signalled extended loop at Nagambie and an upgrade with low profile gauge convertible concrete sleepers, an order for 35 or so intermediate cars would enable a number of current Seymour services to be extended through to Shepparton providing 8 to 9 round trips per day with a journey time of around 2 hours 5 minutes.

The intermediate car option then enables, 3, 4, 7, 8 and even 9 car configurations enabling a very flexible and adaptable fleet still all based on a common engineering platform.   How any transport operator is not able to see the enormous reduction in capital and operating cost, the flexibility in operation and the substantial increase in capacity the 4th car option would provide is beyond me.  As stated previously a 4 car set on a round trip to Geelong is roughly $2,000 PER ROUND TRIP cheaper to operate than a 6 car "all powered" set.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Unpopular opinion post here. Who says you have to scrap VLocities displaced by an Electrification? Why not simply move them elsewhere to other lines?...

Let's put it this way. Let's assume Geelong was electrified. The sets displaced could be used to enhance services on other lines. Bendigo and Traralgon in particular, thanks to the long lengths of double track.

Not presenting an opinion either way on Electrification, but the notion that VLocity units must be scrapped for every EMU built is ludicrous.


Well I happen to agree. Not once did I say they should be scrapped


dollarbill85, you did state this before:


Just to reiterate, I never suggested that the v/locity trains be scrapped, just convert them for electric traction when required.
dollarbill85


Trouble is to convert a Diesel Hydraulic Railmotor to Electric traction is basically scrapping the unit.  Flygon is right you would use the Velocities elsewhere.

To convert the Velocity one has to withdrawal them from service. Then gut the train, take the motor out, redo bogies complexly, refit ti with electrical control etc.  That is a lot of expense just to keep the seats and body. It would not make economic sense.

"if" electrifying - you would build a new train fit for purpose.


Regards,
David Head
dthead

OK, if new v/locity electric units were built, what would happen to the diesel ones? They might end up in the scrap heap too, so according to your logic either way they are screwed. And weren't they recently taken out of service for wheel wear, and now they are slowly returning to service? I'm not saying ground the whole fleet at once, they could do one 2 or 3 car unit at a time, although I am aware that the cost of which would be considerable.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

OK, if new v/locity electric units were built, what would happen to the diesel ones? They might end up in the scrap heap too, so according to your logic either way they are screwed. And weren't they recently taken out of service for wheel wear, and now they are slowly returning to service? I'm not saying ground the whole fleet at once, they could do one 2 or 3 car unit at a time, although I am aware that the cost of which would be considerable.
dollarbill85

SLOWLY being returned to service Question

Clearly you aren't a V/Line traveller Exclamation

As far as I can tell, all VLocity's on my line and other lines as well are back to a full strength in the peak of 6 cars and have been since the free peak bus replacements ended about 2 months ago.

Mike
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

OK, if new v/locity electric units were built, what would happen to the diesel ones? They might end up in the scrap heap too, so according to your logic either way they are screwed. And weren't they recently taken out of service for wheel wear, and now they are slowly returning to service? I'm not saying ground the whole fleet at once, they could do one 2 or 3 car unit at a time, although I am aware that the cost of which would be considerable.
dollarbill85
Wrong,

Please read Flygon's post.  IF electric sets were made, the displaced  Velocity sets would be used on other lines.

And I'l repeat myself they would not convert a Diesal-Hrydraulic unit to a Electric unit. It would be 90% of a totally new unit.

Regards,
David Head

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