How do they deal with a train when the engines cant pull the load?

 
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Going shopping the other day I saw a freight train definitely stopped on one of those nasty little grades with a history of catching out unprepared crews and I wondered what the procedure was today.
The Train was hauled by at least 2 loco's with the name QUBE on the nose and the wagons were either very dark blue containers or wagons and it was stopped near the 160Km post on the grade known locally as 'Tanksley Hill' just west of Bowenfels in the Lithgow Yard Box to Wallerawang section.
Bevan Wall has used the 'twin' ovebridges there for some of his excellent videos of trains crossing the sandstone viaduct as they begin to climb the grade heading West.
By the time we had finished shopping and Bill Paying, the Train was long gone by the time we headed home some 3 hours later.

What are the options available starting from sanding the road and hoping to gain traction to 'It aint gunna go and we need HELP'.

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  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Split the train

obtain assistance from  other locos either front or rear

set back to the location in the rear, stow portion of the load and try again
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Split the train

obtain assistance from  other locos either front or rear

set back to the location in the rear, stow portion of the load and try again
theanimal
Firstly I will say I am not sure if this answer is made with 'Tongue in cheek' or all seriousness as they are what has been done for the last 170 years but, 'Times are 'changin'.
In 'My Day' a Driver would contact the Station/signal box ahead and advise of the problem and that would start the wheels in motion to clear the section.
This could result in the issuance's of various Orders to allow this to happen but with nobody left on the ground today, what would the process be, who do they contact and how and what 'paper work' if any is used and who issues them?

Make the scenario of a total engine failure, Double Line Automatic section and and the only engine(s) available are at the wrong end of the section, ie at the exit of that section.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
If it was Victoria - first and foremost call a fleet of busses!

Thankfully, locomotives these days locomotives are not only generally more reliable (except N class apparently) than they used to be but virtually all freight services have at least two (and often more) locomotives. Often these trains are powered for speed rather than drag and often have the ability to crawl out of the section.

The big trouble in Victoria these days is:

  • There is nowhere to put a disabled train away.
  • There are very few facilities to terminate and reverse trains enroute to allow assistance in the rear or to allow assistance in front.
  • The train behind the failure will be a spark (or worse still) a railcar. The days of sparks assisting goods trains have long gone.
  • There is no one on the ground capable of introducing single line, wrong line or pilotman working etc.

Hence 'call the busses' and hope that the obstruction goes away of its own accord but there is little freight/passenger interaction these days as so little freight.

I recall several failures many years ago:

One was an S on the down SoP at Pascoe Vale. Under double line block the following spark was WLC at Essendon which  a relief B class from North Melbourne was easily able to pass and attach to rear of the SoP to push the train to Broadmeadows. There was the ability to do virtually anything at Essendon in those days.

Another was an R on an evening Seymour pass disabled in 4 road at Essendon (plat 3). Relief engine called from North Melbourne and disabled engine cut off train and reversed into 2 road immediately. Sparks unaffected and run via 1 and/or 3 road (plats 1 & 2) meanwhile. Relief engine arrives via 3 road and reverses onto Seymour train change crew and away it goes. Disabled R then wanders off back to North Melbourne.

Third case was a gunzel special at Oak Park - automatic signalling by this time and Tait train following the special brought to rear of special and assists in the rear to Glenroy.

These days nothing is compatible with anything else so far as couplers, brakes, power, ownership or crew capability are concerned.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Split the train

obtain assistance from  other locos either front or rear

set back to the location in the rear, stow portion of the load and try again
Firstly I will say I am not sure if this answer is made with 'Tongue in cheek' or all seriousness as they are what has been done for the last 170 years but, 'Times are 'changin'.
In 'My Day' a Driver would contact the Station/signal box ahead and advise of the problem and that would start the wheels in motion to clear the section.
This could result in the issuance's of various Orders to allow this to happen but with nobody left on the ground today, what would the process be, who do they contact and how and what 'paper work' if any is used and who issues them?

Make the scenario of a total engine failure, Double Line Automatic section and and the only engine(s) available are at the wrong end of the section, ie at the exit of that section.
gordon_s1942
Certainly not tongue in cheek, depends upon the system of safeworking in force at the location. joined the service in 1971 and still working in the rail industry.
  Throughwestmail Train Controller

Going shopping the other day I saw a freight train definitely stopped on one of those nasty little grades with a history of catching out unprepared crews and I wondered what the procedure was today.
The Train was hauled by at least 2 loco's with the name QUBE on the nose and the wagons were either very dark blue containers or wagons and it was stopped near the 160Km post on the grade known locally as 'Tanksley Hill' just west of Bowenfels in the Lithgow Yard Box to Wallerawang section.
Bevan Wall has used the 'twin' ovebridges there for some of his excellent videos of trains crossing the sandstone viaduct as they begin to climb the grade heading West.
By the time we had finished shopping and Bill Paying, the Train was long gone by the time we headed home some 3 hours later.

What are the options available starting from sanding the road and hoping to gain traction to 'It aint gunna go and we need HELP'.
gordon_s1942
Is there a signal near this location? If there is how do you know that the train was not waiting for the section ahead to clear?
  Throughwestmail Train Controller

Split the train

obtain assistance from  other locos either front or rear

set back to the location in the rear, stow portion of the load and try again
Firstly I will say I am not sure if this answer is made with 'Tongue in cheek' or all seriousness as they are what has been done for the last 170 years but, 'Times are 'changin'.
In 'My Day' a Driver would contact the Station/signal box ahead and advise of the problem and that would start the wheels in motion to clear the section.
This could result in the issuance's of various Orders to allow this to happen but with nobody left on the ground today, what would the process be, who do they contact and how and what 'paper work' if any is used and who issues them?

Make the scenario of a total engine failure, Double Line Automatic section and and the only engine(s) available are at the wrong end of the section, ie at the exit of that section.
gordon_s1942
Where you are talking about, it would all be done by radio to John Holland Network Control Centre in Mayfield West near Newcastle. In Rail Vehicle Detection area, as this area is, a Special Proceed Authority would be issued for the engines to proceed in the wrong running direction back to the train.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Going shopping the other day I saw a freight train definitely stopped on one of those nasty little grades with a history of catching out unprepared crews and I wondered what the procedure was today.
The Train was hauled by at least 2 loco's with the name QUBE on the nose and the wagons were either very dark blue containers or wagons and it was stopped near the 160Km post on the grade known locally as 'Tanksley Hill' just west of Bowenfels in the Lithgow Yard Box to Wallerawang section.
Bevan Wall has used the 'twin' ovebridges there for some of his excellent videos of trains crossing the sandstone viaduct as they begin to climb the grade heading West.
By the time we had finished shopping and Bill Paying, the Train was long gone by the time we headed home some 3 hours later.

What are the options available starting from sanding the road and hoping to gain traction to 'It aint gunna go and we need HELP'.
Is there a signal near this location? If there is how do you know that the train was not waiting for the section ahead to clear?
Throughwestmail
Firstly, I worked both ends of that section for over 30 years as a Signalman and knew the location of every signal in both directions, where Trains may have traction problems apart from failures.
Then the section used Upper Quadrant signals from Bowenfels to Wallerawang but all were removed and single aspect Colour Lights were installed but not in every location.
Both the Down and UP Auto Signals and their distant's near the old 100 Mile post were removed and NOT replaced with a Colour light signal back in the mid 90's.
So where this particular QUBE goods was standing was NOT waiting for the signal to clear as its been gone for 20 years now.

I guessed there was some sort of all purpose form like this 'Special Proceed Order' to be used for such occassions.

Thanks for that.
BTW, no busses needed for Goodies and if it was a passenger, let 'em walk, good for their health............
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Gordon,

'BTW, no busses needed for Goodies and if it was a passenger, let 'em walk, good for their health............'

There are a large number of people with these qualifications in Customer Service at Metro/PTV in Melbourne..... they are always looking for more -  perhaps you should apply (haha) :)
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

BTW, no busses needed for Goodies and if it was a passenger, let 'em walk, good for their health............
Walking might not be the best solution for a failed indian pacific.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
BTW, no busses needed for Goodies and if it was a passenger, let 'em walk, good for their health............
Walking might not be the best solution for a failed indian pacific.
tazzer96
What better way to see the beauties of the Nullabor than by using Shank's Pony, Natures Transport, hahahaha
  marvin Assistant Commissioner

Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
BTW, no busses needed for Goodies and if it was a passenger, let 'em walk, good for their health............
Walking might not be the best solution for a failed indian pacific.
tazzer96
Camel train ?

marvin the merciless martian
-----------------------------
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Camel tow.......

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