Fast-track solution to put Iron Triangle back on the rails

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 24 Jun 2016 15:08

What and excellent suggestion.   I would add though that perhaps rolling stock could be sourced from Bombardier in Dandenong (VIC).   V/Locity DMU's were designed to be suitable for standard gauge, as were the similar A/City EMU's  -  the former capable of sustained 160 kmh running.

Likewise, these cars could be used on the Main South line to Wolseley and beyond to Mount Gambier, should somebody have sufficient gumption to re-open and re-gauge that railway.   Adelaide-Murray Bridge will always be slow until there is some sort of re-aligning.   But then 160 kmh running from Murray Bridge to Mount Gambier   ......

Likewise, think how V/Locity DMU's could speed up services between Adelaide and Melbourne, with improvements to the ARTC track(s) in Qestern Victoria.

What would be the cost of a new line from Seaford/Aldinga to Victor Harbour?   Similar cars could be used.   The new "straight" alignment may be cost prohibitive though.

Fast-track solution to put Iron Triangle back on the rails

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
You do mean "Western Victoria", right?

Frankly I don't think Vlocities would be suitable for the Adelaide-Melbourne run as they're not really designed for that long a journey.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
You do mean "Western Victoria", right?

Frankly I don't think Vlocities would be suitable for the Adelaide-Melbourne run as they're not really designed for that long a journey.
railblogger
Given that the interior fittings are only 'cosmetic' in what way are Vlocitys not designed for an 8 to 10 hour journey? Insufficient fuel, water, toilet tank capacity etc.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
What and excellent suggestion.   I would add though that perhaps rolling stock could be sourced from Bombardier in Dandenong (VIC).   V/Locity DMU's were designed to be suitable for standard gauge, as were the similar A/City EMU's  -  the former capable of sustained 160 kmh running.

Likewise, these cars could be used on the Main South line to Wolseley and beyond to Mount Gambier, should somebody have sufficient gumption to re-open and re-gauge that railway.   Adelaide-Murray Bridge will always be slow until there is some sort of re-aligning.   But then 160 kmh running from Murray Bridge to Mount Gambier   ......

Likewise, think how V/Locity DMU's could speed up services between Adelaide and Melbourne, with improvements to the ARTC track(s) in Qestern Victoria.

What would be the cost of a new line from Seaford/Aldinga to Victor Harbour?   Similar cars could be used.   The new "straight" alignment may be cost prohibitive though.

Fast-track solution to put Iron Triangle back on the rails
Jack Harry
Another suggested scheme by the same two that suggested a very fast train to Victor Harbour via the original "fairly flat" route via Mount Barker!
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
You do mean "Western Victoria", right?

Frankly I don't think Vlocities would be suitable for the Adelaide-Melbourne run as they're not really designed for that long a journey.
Given that the interior fittings are only 'cosmetic' in what way are Vlocitys not designed for an 8 to 10 hour journey? Insufficient fuel, water, toilet tank capacity etc.
YM-Mundrabilla
I was thinking primarly about the interior. Don't really know much about anything else.

Having said that I suppose a long-distance variant could be built...
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This has been flogged to death previously in the SA forum but I guess for the sake of people who have recently joined we could revisit the issues.

First and foremost, South Australia is broke. We don't have rivers of stamp duty money flowing into state government coffers like NSW and Victoria and we lack a large population base outside of our capital city like those larger cities on the eastern seaboard. Victoria in particular has experienced the largest population growth in the nation with over 1.2 million people moving to Melbourne in the last 15 years (the entire population of Adelaide by comparison!) so naturally there's been a lot of growth in those traditional satellite towns - reflected in the money poured simultaneously into V/line to facilitate commuting to Melbourne.

Long distance passenger trains like the Iron Triangle and the South East are really too hard and there's probably not a market anyway - track conditions are too poor (non-existent between Wosley and Mt Gambier) and I think the services have simply been gone for too long. Shorter distances like Roseworthy, the Barossa and (possibly) Mt Barker could be viable - but in that case the alignment is too slow and it's gauge isolated from Adelaide station now too.

The biggest obstacle though is the lack of money and that's not going to change any time soon.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
It was suggested in the duplicate thread by @freightgate that some sort of trial on the existing line up to Port Augusta might be something worthwhile?  Id be interested in seeing how this could work out as a test of concept, though not sure where the rolling stock would come from.  Thoughts?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
It was suggested in the duplicate thread by @freightgate that some sort of trial on the existing line up to Port Augusta might be something worthwhile?  Id be interested in seeing how this could work out as a test of concept, though not sure where the rolling stock would come from.  Thoughts?
james.au
You need to understand the capital cost and planning required to facilitate a trial.

Back In Government Railway days with abundance of resources, yeah not a problem (would be some managers pet project)
But those days are well and truly gone.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It was suggested in the duplicate thread by @freightgate that some sort of trial on the existing line up to Port Augusta might be something worthwhile?  Id be interested in seeing how this could work out as a test of concept, though not sure where the rolling stock would come from.  Thoughts?
james.au
Thoughts?

The population base is very small when compared with the eastern states.
A bus flexible service covers the intended route and is not heavily patronised.
Train travel would not give the increase of speed and comfort to get people off the buses.
City dwellers over estimate the need the country people have to visit the big smoke. (I can vouch that once living in a country town there are not many trips to Adelaide that are necessary.)
Once persons get to Adelaide they need a vehicle to do any sensible business.
There no longer suitable rolling stock so new or modified stock would be required to the "experiment".

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I have quite literally been over the route before including arguing strongly for retention of the original service.

The days of a 520 with a train of comfortable steel cars or a Blue Bird speeding across the countryside at 113kph have vanished in a mist of dreams.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It was suggested in the duplicate thread by @freightgate that some sort of trial on the existing line up to Port Augusta might be something worthwhile?  Id be interested in seeing how this could work out as a test of concept, though not sure where the rolling stock would come from.  Thoughts?
Thoughts?

The population base is very small when compared with the eastern states.
A bus flexible service covers the intended route and is not heavily patronised.
Train travel would not give the increase of speed and comfort to get people off the buses.
City dwellers over estimate the need the country people have to visit the big smoke. (I can vouch that once living in a country town there are not many trips to Adelaide that are necessary.)
Once persons get to Adelaide they need a vehicle to do any sensible business.
There no longer suitable rolling stock so new or modified stock would be required to the "experiment".

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I have quite literally been over the route before including arguing strongly for retention of the original service.

The days of a 520 with a train of comfortable steel cars or a Blue Bird speeding across the countryside at 113kph have vanished in a mist of dreams.
steam4ian
The internet has greatly reduced the need for travel to and from the country, hence the disappearance of travelling salesmen, and passenger trains. Well they used to travel by train, then by car and now they are all gone. Probably a contributing reason why large cars are no longer in demand in Australia, and they are gone too.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
It was suggested in the duplicate thread by @freightgate that some sort of trial on the existing line up to Port Augusta might be something worthwhile?  Id be interested in seeing how this could work out as a test of concept, though not sure where the rolling stock would come from.  Thoughts?
james.au

Would it be possible to use some of the rolling stock taken off the metro network just recently however this assumes SG bogies are available.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
It was suggested in the duplicate thread by @freightgate that some sort of trial on the existing line up to Port Augusta might be something worthwhile?  Id be interested in seeing how this could work out as a test of concept, though not sure where the rolling stock would come from.  Thoughts?

Would it be possible to use some of the rolling stock taken off the metro network just recently however this assumes SG bogies are available.
JimYarin
This rolling stock you talk of Is life expired (or very near to It)

Would need mega bucks spent on them modifying and refurbishing the rolling stock to be fit for purpose for the task you propose.

SA finance woes, means there Is no cash to splash around on "nice to haves"

The running cost of a rural passenger service also would burn a hole In the SA Governments budget.
  Lt. Commander Data Station Master

Location: Stobie Poll City (Adelaide).
The running cost of a rural passenger service also would burn a hole In the SA Governments budget.
Nightfire

I think that's a small understatement. More like dropping a nuke in a desolate wasteland and then throwing whatever's left into an incinerator.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
This rolling stock you talk of Is scrapped.

Nightfire
Edited for accuracy.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
The time to resurrect again any regional passenger train service n South Australia has long past.   The Australian National "flurry" of having a crack at rejuvenating regional services to Mt Gambier, Whyalla etc was really the last hurrah.   Those services which I rode out of interest were really the litmus test as to whether regional passenger rail was going to have a future or not in SA.   I considered at the time that the services were well promoted, which is often a drawback to the success of these services.  The trains had friendly staff and on-board refreshment services and they were quite reliable and comfortable.   But even so hundreds of thousands of passengers didn't come flooding back to rail in sufficient volume to give any Government administration confidence to make a a massive new investment in rollingstock and supporting infrastructure.

Since that time the economics, demographics, additional safety and regulatory requirements etc have made these services even more challenging to consider and population growth in South Australia has been basically flat or even in decline in regional areas.

Its sad they are gone and I've been desperately searching for an article I read some years ago that set out to demonstrate that loss of regional passenger train service does have a negative impact on the "viability" of regional communities but in no way could you use it as an argument for justifying their return in the South Australian context.  If I find the link I'll post it.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I would love to see regional passenger rail restored from; Adelaide to Whyalla via Port Pirie and Port Augusta, Adelaide to Broken hill via Peterborough, Adelaide to Bordertown via Murray Bridge (with possible extensions to Mount Gambier via Naracoorte), Adelaide to Victor Harbor via Goolwa and Mount barker and Adelaide to Nuriootpa via Tanunda and Gawler.

We could use the currently stored barossa wine train bluebirds, with standard gauge bogies of course, for the standard gauge trials.
For the Barossa line we could use the NRMs preserved 2000 class railcar set with a toilet and snack vending machines installed.

Alternatively for the standard gauge line trials we could hire a loco and use the GSR red sitter carriages and snack bars that are now redundant following GSRs removal of red service from Australias great trains.

The bluebirds and preserved jumbos are in an almost ready to run condition and GSRs red service rolling stock is also in a ready to run condition.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Go for it Heath.

I would suggest that, to encourage the development of a sustainable business model, a state government subsidy of about $15 per ticket sold be made available to you.
  Lt. Commander Data Station Master

Location: Stobie Poll City (Adelaide).
Heath Loxton,

Your post was all going fine until you mentioned Adelaide to Victor via Mt Barker. Who would use this service? I'm not sure if you know, the quickest way to Victor is through Seaford. The quickest way to Barker is down the SE Freeway. The train takes neither of these routes, instead going via Blackwood, Heathfield, Balhannah and Littlehampton, and then slowly making its way to Victor via bloody everywhere. Steamranger currently runs Mt Barker-Victor services, which are tourist trains only.

I think that a small regional network could maybe run. Adelaide-Whyalla via Pt Pirrie, Adelaide-Broken Hill and Adelaide-Mt Gambier ""might"" be sustainable if they only ran 3 times a week in each direction at most.

Other states may have regional rail networks, but just look at the population distribution in SA. Out of 1.5million, 1.2 live in Adelaide. That leaves 300,000 spread out in a very large area. If Mt Barker keeps growing the way it is, it will be SA's second City in no time.

What really needs to happen in SA is create a new rail corridor to Mt Barker, following the freeway alignment as much as possible. Electrify it, make it express, stopping only Mt Barker South-East, Mt Barker Centre, Mt Barker West, Hahndorf, Bridgewater, Heathfield/Aldgate/Stirling, ""maybe"" Crafers then express to town, with feeder buses out of each of the stations.

Also, the Seaford Line extended to Victor/Goolwa. New alignment via Aldinga, Willunga then Victor Harbor Road. Trains express Adelaide-Seaford, Adelaide-Brighton, the all stoppers Adelaide-Brighton and Adelaide-Tonsley. Obviously less frequent to Victor.

Of course, without any money none of that will ever happen. If regional rail ever is investigated/trialled, one or two of the platforms at ARS should be dual guage, instead of the Keswick terminal.

Oh, and here's 2c Smile
  SAR520SMBH Junior Train Controller

Heath Loxton,

Who's WE??
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Heath Loxton,

Who's WE??
SAR520SMBH
Would be interesting to hear from Heath as to who the "We" are.

His plan appears to call for the following:-
1. Using the privately owned Barossa Wine Train, whose owner was last heard of sailing around the Mediterranean Sea in his yacht!
2. Seconding NRM's recently acquired 2000/2100 DMU's and modifying them - Does anyone at the NRM even know Mr. Loxton intends seconding them?
3. Kicking ARHS of SA (SteamRanger) off their tourist line, and converting it to SG so that they can not run a steam train again.
4. Seconding GSR's red class stock which is owned by third party. I suspect they would want top dollar for them!

So Mr. Loxton's 'We' will need to have very deep pockets indeed.Shocked

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