The original plan was to built a second Harbour crossing as well as the Northwest rail link accessible to standard double decked rolling stock.
• FICTION The metro is being built to provide improved public transport to existing suburbs.Note the mention of little Hong Kong's.
• FACT Metro would represent a dramatic deterioration in passenger comfort and capacity. Metro systems characteristically operate over short distances with stations typically less than a kilometre apart. Metro is not appropriate for Sydney with its long commuting distances.
• FICTION Hong Kong MTR is primarily a rail operator.
• FACT Hong Kong MTR is primarily a property developer. They have the development rights around every new station they build – a form of “value capture” to profit a private company. The Metro is part of a dirty deal to enable MTR to turn large tracts of Sydney’s suburbs into mini Hong Kongs.
• FICTION Only a metro can provide increased capacity and service frequency.
• FACT The existing Sydney double deck trains can, and do, run at 2-3 minute intervals through the CBD, in peak hour. The Paris RER system is progressively converting all of its lines to double-deck trains running at 2 minute intervals in the peaks to increase the capacity of the network.
FICTION The metro is being built to provide improved public transport to existing suburbs.Um excuse me, Mr Gateby, your group DOES support the North West Metro, but they said it should have been built as other rail lines, ie: that can take double decks.
FACT Metro would represent a dramatic deterioration in passenger comfort and capacity. Metro systems characteristically operate over short distances with stations typically less than a kilometre apart. Metro is not appropriate for Sydney with its long commuting distances.Mr Gateby, my answers: Piccadilly Line to Heathrow Airport;
Since when is building a greenfield railway degrading PT?This is the only greenfield line even projected in New South Wales.NSW has a number of greenfield rail based projects in the last 12 years.
There is no such definition as previously posted and should such a definition be used attempted it would be based on time and hence fits in with similar systems world wide.
The rolling stock is smaller and lighter than suburban rolling stock, but larger and heavier than light rail.
What has ben stated is that the Metro technology has greater capacity than the current DD technology because the higher seating capacity on the DD chews up space and by default lowers the density of the train.
[Part in parenthesis not included]
But Sydney's double decker trains have about 40% more floor space, so more seats compared to an equivalent single decker does not lower capacity. How are we supposed to get people out of buses and cars with fewer seats? You need comfortable trains to do so for a long commute.
How are we supposed to get people out of buses and cars with fewer seats? You need comfortable trains to do so for a long commute.
I realise that I am tempting the Demons of Total Non-Comprehension, but I would like to highlight and object to Myrtone's suggestion that passengers need to be lured from buses and put on trains, because:Isn't getting people off the roads the point of building this rail link?
- Buses are amazing. They serve many purposes that trains cannot, such as feeding trains, serving lower-density areas and providing door-to-door local service across the metropolitan area. They are heavily used by commuters in Sydney, far more than in Melbourne, because buses in Sydney actually do the job they are supposed to do, in spite of a horrendously flawed route network, broken fare system and utterly hideous infrastructure deficit. But if someone can take a train instead of a bus, nine times out of ten they will.
- Buses are not cars. Another passenger on a bus is still another car not on the road.
- Comfort is secondary. We're running commuter services, not Qantas International Business Class. We don't have to be cushy and comfortable — we just have to suck less than driving, and believe me, you can make driving suck a lot more.
Isn't getting people off the roads the point of building this rail link?
There are no trams in suburban Sydney.
Buses share the road with cars, and like cars are manually steered.
Don't reduce comfort if you want to get more people on mass transit. If you currently have two passengers per square metre. You may be running a commuter service and not a business class plane, but if getting people onto trains and out of cars, don't make the passengers stand if they would get a seat on a bus, same for the people you get out of their cars. Don't make more passengers stand than before.Mate, I seriously need to know what you've been taking, because it's definitely got you properly cooked.
3. Don't reduce comfort if you want to get more people on mass transit. If you currently have two passengers per square metre. You may be running a commuter service and not a business class plane, but if getting people onto trains and out of cars, don't make the passengers stand if they would get a seat on a bus, same for the people you get out of their cars. Don't make more passengers stand than before.
1. There are no trams in suburban Sydney.And what do you think goes to Dulwich Hill via Pyrmont since early 2014, and Wentworth Park since 1997 & Lilyfield since 2000?
12. Buses share the road with cars, and like cars are manually steered.Mostly, but what about the T80 & other "T" named routes in Sydney, & Adelaide's O Bahn?
3. Don't reduce comfort if you want to get more people on mass transit.Longer distance trains such as interurban trains need to have comfort considered.
They're being brought back, which is pointless because based on current propaganda, the trams to Kingsford and Randwick will be slower than and just as crowded as the current State Transit buses plying Anzac Pde and Alison Rd.Only one line in the southeast.
I'm going to point out that four passengers per square metre is a perfectly acceptable standing density, and that standing is actually not that bad, even on a bus — standing can be quite pleasant on morning X9* and X7* buses that use the Eastern Distributor — and will now retreat back to my literature in order to recover from my latest dose of Myrtone's radiation.Imposing four passengers per square metre for a long commute where previous passenger density was less is going to seem pretty steamy. Sydney commuters seem to be used to more floor space and more seats.
How many times have you been told the trains are full now and they do not have an issue. No commuter service in the world is suffering people have to stand for 30min.If the trains are full now, there is a good case against reducing floor space, and maintaining capacity per train. We all remember that you are in Dubai, and the criticisms I mention, being in that brochure, are from those in the same metropolis where this is happening.
And what do you think goes to Dulwich Hill via Pyrmont since early 2014, and Wentworth Park since 1997 & Lilyfield since 2000?But not street running. It follows a former freight railway.
Longer distance trains such as interurban trains need to have comfort considered.If suburban trains 80 years ago had it considered and we want to get people out of their cars, why not today?
Had the NWRL been DD and feeding into existing NSL
- two lines would merge at Epping, Northern and NW services,
- then merge again at Chatswood to achieve a frequency of 20-24 trains per hour according to Mytone this is doable.
- Not forgetting some of the NSL trains start from the Central Coast, 60km north, some from Berowra (+20km away) and others between Lindfield and Hornsby.
- all feeding into a single track starting from Chatswood and running all the way to Straithfield, over 30km away.
How the hell does anyone thing this would be reliable/functional????
Only one line in the southeast.Actually SW with SE line under construction
Imposing four passengers per square metre for a long commute where previous passenger density was less is going to seem pretty steamy. Sydney commuters seem to be used to more floor space and more seats.
If the trains are full now, there is a good case against reducing floor space, and maintaining capacity per train. We all remember that you are in Dubai, and the criticisms I mention, being in that brochure, are from those in the same metropolis where this is happening.
But not street running. It follows a former freight railway.
If suburban trains 80 years ago had it considered and we want to get people out of their cars, why not today?
As I have said before, I actually care less on what they use, DD or SD automation.
As a strong proponent in the belief that that should have happened and would have been in the city's best interests, I will respond.
No more merging at Epping, I would have advocated the NWRL maintain separation to the Northern Line at Epping.
Based on my experience, I have gradually come to the consideration that in the morning peak, there probably should not be any direct services between Central Coast and the North Shore. It causes too many issues operationally and is against the mantra of 'Rail Clearways' and untangling the network.
You mention the single track between Chatswood and 'Strathfield', the second harbour rail crossing and CBD Relief line would have provided duplication to enable more functional running. While the original Shore line between Chatswood and Redfern would have operationally remained the 'main' line with a higher proportion of services, the CBD Relief would have the spare capacity to enable it to have been used as an Option B, operationally, in case anything were to block normal running on the Shore as happens not infrequently.
It's two branches, but named as one line.They're being brought back, which is pointless because based on current propaganda, the trams to Kingsford and Randwick will be slower than and just as crowded as the current State Transit buses plying Anzac Pde and Alison Rd.Only one line in the southeast.
Yet again, you are wrong. It runs IN (as on "the road") Hay St. Please check next time.And what do you think goes to Dulwich Hill via Pyrmont since early 2014, and Wentworth Park since 1997 & Lilyfield since 2000?
But not street running. It follows a former freight railway.
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