ABS forced to defend Census website security

 
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Third World equipment managed by morons = typical Australian fiasco.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Third World equipment managed by morons = typical Australian fiasco.
Valvegear

The type we have come to know and expect.  Rail is not much better.
  2353 Chief Train Controller

Location: Brisvegas
Third World equipment managed by morons = typical Australian fiasco.
Of course it has nothing to do with the infamous Abbott 2014 budget where he cut $60million from the ABS and made them contract out their computer system http://theaimn.com/census-fail-failure-of-liberal-ideology/

.

If we want Government Services to be delivered in an appropriate and timely manner - we've got to accept that the lowest price is 'best value'  becuase clearly it isn't.  The lowest price will frequently bid low and then increase the price with 'extras' that are included by others.  The ideology that private companies can always deliver better services than the Government in not always right either; because they can't.  Look at Rail in NSW, Tasmania and NZ or public transport in Victoria for some 'on topic' examples.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
I liked the idiocy of a couple of questions.

It asks the number of people in the house on census night? no worries, fill that in.
Then it asks where you and you parents were born. no worries, fill that in.
It asks your marital status, no worries.
Person 2 - the wife. She fills in all the same i did relevant to her, again no worries.

Then......................

Person 3 the child.

It asks if the child is both of ours. Tick yes.

It then asks (as it did for mum and dad) where their mum and dad were born respectively.

But hang on, we ticked the box for the kid that said we were BOTH their parent. We've already told this stupid thing where we were born, so it should have linked the two since we clicked that box for the kid. How come the census is too retarded to join the dots?????????

It gets better.

Then is asks kids date of birth just like us. No worries
It then tells you how old they are, No worries - 4

It then it asks their marital status.

Its this point I've lost my poop and find myself yelling at the computer, THEY'RE 4 YOU EFFING NONG!!!!!!

Seriously, who writes the software for this crap?? I mean, it knew not to ask about employment details presumably due to the age, but marital status WTF??

Sure, if I'd clicked a certain type religion it should have accepted this. But with the variety of religions of what most people clicked it should have said "please stay online, the relevant Authorities will be around to see you soon".

Regards
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
davesvline - I ( and probably others) would prefer that you do not use the word "spastic" as a form of insult. A person who is spastic has a serious medical condition, and does not need any added opprobrium.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
davesvline - I ( and probably others) would prefer that you do not use the word "spastic" as a form of insult. A person who is spastic has a serious medical condition, and does not need any added opprobrium.
Valvegear
Amended accordingly.

Cheers
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Two days later and apparently the website still isn't working - tried again for the first time since Tuesday night and still get the "computer says no!" message. Getting annoyed about it and I'm sure I'm not the only one - why is it my job to keep trying to electronically submit my census when you can't even get onto their website? Not sure what I should do as an ordinary citizen, do you ring them and tell them you were among the 20 million households unable to complete it?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Two days later and apparently the website still isn't working - tried again for the first time since Tuesday night and still get the "computer says no!" message. Getting annoyed about it and I'm sure I'm not the only one - why is it my job to keep trying to electronically submit my census when you can't even get onto their website? Not sure what I should do as an ordinary citizen, do you ring them and tell them you were among the 20 million households unable to complete it?
don_dunstan
Definitely not. Let them do the worrying. If/when they tackle you, give them the simple answer, " I tried numerous times, and the fact that your equipment failed is not my problem." If they don't like that, let them threaten prosecution. I'd like to see them prove beyond reasonable doubt that you didn't make any attempts.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
Don, if the ABS asks for proof you can just point to your posts here.

Rick
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
All my mail comes to the right number, but get this:
I am currently living a street that is also the name of a suburb here in SA. That suburb has a street with my suburb's name. I constantly get mail from the address with the transposed street/suburb names. I don't seem to have had anything delivered untimely late, or have anything knowingly missing so I currently assume this is a one way error at the mail sorting room.
Aaron

Are the postcodes for both suburbs the same? If not this makes a mockery of the intended purpose of postcodes!
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Two days later and apparently the website still isn't working - tried again for the first time since Tuesday night and still get the "computer says no!" message. Getting annoyed about it and I'm sure I'm not the only one - why is it my job to keep trying to electronically submit my census when you can't even get onto their website? Not sure what I should do as an ordinary citizen, do you ring them and tell them you were among the 20 million households unable to complete it?
Definitely not. Let them do the worrying. If/when they tackle you, give them the simple answer, " I tried numerous times, and the fact that your equipment failed is not my problem." If they don't like that, let them threaten prosecution. I'd like to see them prove beyond reasonable doubt that you didn't make any attempts.
Valvegear
Also remember that these fools would like to fine you $180 per day to a maximum of $1800 (so i was told by some boffin at ABS) until you complete the census. Yeah whatever.........
Strange how they seemingly cannot fine you this amount for not voting at an election (if you're not on the electoral role then you cant be fined for not voting as no one knows you didn't).

Similarly, if you happened to be away on census night, say a holiday interstate, and return home to find the census info in your letterbox and the August 9 date has passed, well what a damn shame that is.
As Valvegear says, let them prove.  Which of course they cant.

I could send you an sms. But unless I can prove you received it, then it doesn't mean squat.

Did the ABS send the census via registered mail and get a signature from you - NO. What proof do they have that you got it?

You were interstate, and they cant prove it. Who knows, you might have had your mail pinched. The list of excuses is endless, but the fact that their way of collecting said info has gone guts up is hilarious.

Regards
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If you're interstate you should be filling in the census where you stayed on August 9. Theoretically.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Website back online according to mainstream media.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
If you're interstate you should be filling in the census where you stayed on August 9. Theoretically.
"duttonbay"
Or your host should be filling it in.
  M636C Minister for Railways

I logged in and completed the census this morning.

I still remember Tuesday...

At the end they asked for comments:

I suggested having the system work on census night would help.

Trying to explain my work in a few words was interesting.

M636C
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
If you're interstate you should be filling in the census where you stayed on August 9. Theoretically.
Or your host should be filling it in.
Valvegear
Raises another interesting (and unanswered) question in the obvious info provided in relation to confidential/private info on salary etc for adult children still living at home. I don't know their salary details nor do I want mine known.

Leave blank of fill in garbage?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Days later and still no explanation from the government about what went wrong. Fairfax is reporting the low-level "hacktivists" may have been responsible and Christopher Pyne told the media that the attack on ABS computers may have actually come from inside Australia - but they're still not sure what actually went wrong.

You really have to question where we're headed as a nation if we can't organise things like this any longer. We managed to have the census ran properly for over a hundred years - the ABS is actually enshrined in the constitution - and yet this is the first time they've managed to completely stuff it up. Is Australia turning into a failed state?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Days later and still no explanation from the government about what went wrong. Fairfax is reporting the low-level "hacktivists" may have been responsible and Christopher Pyne told the media that the attack on ABS computers may have actually come from inside Australia - but they're still not sure what actually went wrong.

You really have to question where we're headed as a nation if we can't organise things like this any longer. We managed to have the census ran properly for over a hundred years - the ABS is actually enshrined in the constitution - and yet this is the first time they've managed to completely stuff it up. Is Australia turning into a failed state?
don_dunstan
Is Australia turning into a failed state?

Short answer YES
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Sorry but I have to say this, Australia a failed state.......................... Is there any sign of anarchy, a break down of all law and order, armed vigilante groups roaming the streets............. Please live in the real world.

All that has happened was definitely forecast, a single stupid decision probably by a politician who most likely does not even know how a light switch works and therefore had NO clue on the consequences of his decision. I think you will likely find the ABS tried to tell them it would not work, but like so much modern management, they would not listen to any reason, Hence the silence, complete with frogs croaking in the back ground.

Modern management try to make out there not stupid , but why of why do they keep on giving us such blatant examples of such stupidity (Note 1).

woodford

Note 1: I have been outspoken on this topic for years, A number of managers have told me it would do me good to walk a mile in there shoes, this is still no excuse for such poor decsions.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Sorry but I have to say this, Australia a failed state.......................... Is there any sign of anarchy, a break down of all law and order, armed vigilante groups roaming the streets............. Please live in the real world.

............

Modern management try to make out there not stupid , but why of why do they keep on giving us such blatant examples of such stupidity (Note 1).

woodford

woodford
Exactly.

But  as for poor management practice I would like to know who is responsible for allowing grumpy old people anywhere near the internet in the first place? Razz
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Raises another interesting (and unanswered) question in the obvious info provided in relation to confidential/private info on salary etc for adult children still living at home. I don't know their salary details nor do I want mine known.

Leave blank of fill in garbage?
YM-Mundrabilla


Not unanswered at all. You can ask for additional forms/logins for privacy reasons.

I did my census online last night at around 9:15pm. Only took a few minutes.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Sorry but I have to say this, Australia a failed state.......................... Is there any sign of anarchy, a break down of all law and order, armed vigilante groups roaming the streets............. Please live in the real world.
woodford
I would classify countries like Erdogan's Turkey as failed states - it's actually still functioning on the surface but underneath that facade it's incredibly corrupt and dysfunctional; witness the recent failed military coup and also Erdogan trying to blackmail the European Union into getting what he wants or he'll unleash even more refugees into Europe (what a swell ally of NATO he is!).

I think there's a possibility that we're on the way to being a failed state ourselves; the first symptoms are a breakdown in the capacity of the government to deliver. One of the reasons given for the failure of the census in 2016 is the hopeless under-funding of the ABS and the unaccountable chain of responsibility with (apparently?) nobody in charge and nobody putting their hand up to take responsibility for the failure - as discussed further in this Laura Tingle article in the Financial Review (you may encounter a paywall).

One of the most interesting points from the article:

But it is worth noting that the ABS has been the subject of a long-term degradation in its capacity under both sides of politics. A sign of the neglect – even contempt – in which the bureau seemed to be held by the Abbott government was that the job of chief statistician was left empty for almost a year until it was filled by David Kalisch in December 2014.

It has lost hundreds of millions of dollars from its budget in recent years and hundreds of people over the best part of a decade. In January 2014 it sought a $300 million bailout, arguing that its financial position left it "with barely enough cash to keep the lights on"

And yet somehow Malcolm is trying to tell us that they don't know what went wrong, it's not their fault? Pull the other one. It's a consequence of public services being progressively run down and a symptom of the decline of our national governance. It's been happening since Fraser in my opinion.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Raises another interesting (and unanswered) question in the obvious info provided in relation to confidential/private info on salary etc for adult children still living at home. I don't know their salary details nor do I want mine known.

Leave blank of fill in garbage?


Not unanswered at all. You can ask for additional forms/logins for privacy reasons.

I did my census online last night at around 9:15pm. Only took a few minutes.
Graham4405
Thanks Graham - now to try and ring the bastards up (haha).
I now see it on the form but why don't they tell you that in the first place?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Sorry but I have to say this, Australia a failed state.......................... Is there any sign of anarchy, a break down of all law and order, armed vigilante groups roaming the streets............. Please live in the real world.

............

Modern management try to make out there not stupid , but why of why do they keep on giving us such blatant examples of such stupidity (Note 1).

woodford
Exactly.

But  as for poor management practice I would like to know who is responsible for allowing grumpy old people anywhere near the internet in the first place? Razz
bingley hall
Grumpy old people have as much right as anyone else to their views, many of which are likely (?) to be based on many more years of experience than your own. It will be interesting to see how you will feel in 20 odd years time, if not before, the way this place is going.

We have seen examples of the way the place is heading every day for the last week with conditions in Rio de Janeiro highlighted in the media.

It is only mugs who obey the law here. Just look at the muggings, home invasions and car jackings here in Victoria where if an offender is caught they are out on bail immediately and re offend within hours. Similarly, if you are a property developer for example you can get away with anything by simply buying the result that you want when compared with an average person who has not the resources to buy the legal system.

If you have money in Australia you can do anything and get away with it by simply buying the result that you want.

There was a time when I was going to do law at university. Thank God I didn't!  I would not be able to look myself in the eye given the stories/excuses some lawyers spin for their guilty clients and how gullible or stupid some magistrates must be to accept them. It's all a club to make money for lawyers.

I say again, whether you like it or not, the country is going to the dogs and grumpy old bastards still have the right (at the moment) to say so. Crying or Very sad
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

You really have to question where we're headed as a nation if we can't organise things like this any longer. We managed to have the census ran properly for over a hundred years - the ABS is actually enshrined in the constitution - and yet this is the first time they've managed to completely stuff it up. Is Australia turning into a failed state?
don_dunstan
That's because there is an ideology that is fashionable at the moment that says govt services (even services required by the govt itself) cost too much therefore the govt feels they have to cripple the service. The same ideology says that the private sector can do it soooo much better than the govt can do it itself. There are many examples we can quote in our own much loved rail industry that proves this last point irrevocably

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