50 level crossings to be removed

 
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Historian, are there any links anywhere where up-to-date photos can be seen of the works - I've tried looking but not even the Victorian government has current photos of the operations.
don_dunstan

Others have already answered.

There must be a large number of photos around - lots of locals are taking pictures. I've even seen workers on the project snapping quick photos with their phones. I've got a few myself.

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  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
LCRA have added another timelapse video today.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Au1OZSGu0
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Just before the end of the Ormond-McKinnon-Bentleigh shut, I thought I'd have a look at how they've arranged the bustitution.

First, there are separate Express and Stopping services and these have different routes. The stopping services use Grange/Jasper Roads on the east side of the line. The express services use Thomas St/Bambra Road on the west side of the line. Both Caulfield and Moorabbin have separate loading/unloading points for the two services.

At Caulfield, the loading and unloading points are, not surprisingly, in Normanby Rd on the South side of the station. The stopping service location is at the foot of the ramp to Platform 1 near the entrance to the car park. It's a relatively simple arrangement; buses pull up, let off the passengers, pull forward to the marque, load and off they go. The facilities for the express service are considerably more sophisticated. The stopping point is located about 50 metres west of the subway. Inbound and outbound express passengers are almost completely segregated. Express passengers access Platform 1 using the racecourse entrance which is just west of the subway (this has its own ramp to Normanby St). Once on Normanby St, there are segregated pedestrian walkways west to the bus stop. Outbound passengers walk on a cordoned off section of the road. Inbound passengers use the footpath. There are separate loading and unloading areas for the buses. The loading area is first and has about four marques to give some protection to the waiting passengers. The unloading area is beyond. Bus layover areas are in Normanby Rd west towards Smith St, and in Smith St itself.

(One interesting feature of this arrangement is that arriving passengers on the stopping buses use the normal entrance to Platform 1 and pass the Myki validators. As the passengers don't validate on the bus, this allows them to touch on. Express passengers don't pass any Myki validators, but they are likely to have touched on prior to arriving at Moorabbin.)

At Moorabbin, there are separate loading points for express and stopping buses in Station St (east of the station). The stopping loading point is in the new bus station south of the station entrance. The express loading point is in the station car park north of the station entrance. A fenced off walkway has been provided along the boundary of the car park to a marque at the northern end of the car park. There is standing room for about four or five buses in the car park. It appears that both services use a common unloading point in the Nepean Hwy service lane on the west side of the station. Standby buses stand in the service lane to the north of the unloading point.

The stopping service runs east along Normamby Rd, then Queens Ave, Neerim Rd, Grange Rd, Jasper Rd, and finally South Rd. The buses appear to cross the railway line and turn into the Nepean Hwy service lane to drop off. They then re-enter the Nepean Hwy, cross the line, and turn into Station St and the stopping pick up point. They then continue along Station St, turn right into South Rd and back the way they came. At Caulfield it appears they do a loop around Station St, Smith St, and Normanby Rd to reach the drop off point. The intermediate stops are: Glenhuntly: Inbound: 127 Grange Rd (cnr Rosedale Ave), Outbound 134 Grange Rd (cnr Parton Crt); Ormond: Inbound 293 Grange Rd (cnr Walsh St); Outbound roughly opposite; McKinnon: Inbound outside the McKinnon Hotel (cnr McKinnon Rd); Outbound about 50 metres south of McKinnon Rd; Bentleigh: Inbound and outbound south of Centre Rd in front of Woolworths; and Patterson: Outbound 70 Jasper Rd (cnr Mortimer St), Inbound opposite in front of the park. All stops are continuously staffed with one person each on the inbound and outbound sides. All stops have a marque.

The express service appears (I haven't completely traced it) to turn into Station St at Caulfield, then Kambrook Rd, Glen Eira Rd, Bambra Rd, Thomas St, Nepean Hwy, to the drop-off point on the west side of Moorabbin station. Then loop to Station St, pick up, turn left into South Rd, back to Nepean Hwy to retrace their steps to Caulfield.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

LCRA have added another timelapse video today.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Au1OZSGu0
mikesyd

Very interesting. Amusingly, they are working so fast that it looks nothing like that today.

(As at today, the track was complete, ballasted, and tamped all the way through. The overhead was in place and they were busy adjusting it and connecting up the substation. The signals are all in, and they were putting in the glued insulated rail joints. They are working on the concourse station buildings at all three stations. They're asphalting the platforms at McKinnon, with a pile of light poles to go in. I was told that McKinnon is a little behind schedule.)

For those playing at home...
0:10+ The works depot at the EE Gunn reserve Ormond
0:17+ Ormond looking south. The deck for the apartment block can be seen - they have now filled in most of the space between the two parts
0:21+ Ormond again, with a good look at the controversial deck Smile
0:27+ McKinnon, at the northern end of the station box
0:32+ McKinnon, looking south. Concourse this side of the road, platforms the other
0:40+ McKinnon again
0:44+ Bentleigh, looking north from above Centre Rd showing the platforms
0:48+ Bentleigh, looking south over Centre Rd
0:55+ Moving north from McKinnon towards Murray Rd
1:08+ Bentleigh, looking west over the concourse
1:19+ Moving north from Bentleigh towards the substation
1:23+ Bentleigh, hovering over the concourse looking north
1:27+ McKinnon, looking south over the concourse
1:31+ McKinnon again, looking south towards the concourse
  kapow Junior Train Controller

They had started on erecting very deep beams further north - perhaps a road access across the line?
Hi Historian. I was down in the Ormond area this afternoon and saw the works. I was under the same impression you were about those beams that have been laid just to the north of (the new) Ormond station, I thought they were for a new access road. I spoke to a couple of LXRA workers at the site and it appears that the beams are for a new building. They said the beams would be able to hold a building up to 7 storeys high - a form of value capture where there is space available. I don't have any further detail about the building because the LXRA workers didn't know either. All the beams will do is support a slab to be built on - whatever form this may take. Could be a an interesting gateway to the line in this area.
jdekorte
According to this article http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/highrises-to-soar-over-suburban-stations-to-help-fund-level-crossing-removals-20160725-gqd3gi.html the deck should be able to support a building up to 13 storeys high
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Was someone actually proactive in planning for 4  tracks on that job?

From the photo,  it sure does look like it'd fit, and if so it's a pity they weren't so from Blackburn to Ringwood.

Regards
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
LCRA have added another timelapse video today.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Au1OZSGu0

Very interesting. Amusingly, they are working so fast that it looks nothing like that today.

(As at today, the track was complete, ballasted, and tamped all the way through. The overhead was in place and they were busy adjusting it and connecting up the substation. The signals are all in, and they were putting in the glued insulated rail joints. They are working on the concourse station buildings at all three stations. They're asphalting the platforms at McKinnon, with a pile of light poles to go in. I was told that McKinnon is a little behind schedule.)

For those playing at home...
0:10+ The works depot at the EE Gunn reserve Ormond
0:17+ Ormond looking south. The deck for the apartment block can be seen - they have now filled in most of the space between the two parts
0:21+ Ormond again, with a good look at the controversial deck Smile
0:27+ McKinnon, at the northern end of the station box
0:32+ McKinnon, looking south. Concourse this side of the road, platforms the other
0:40+ McKinnon again
0:44+ Bentleigh, looking north from above Centre Rd showing the platforms
0:48+ Bentleigh, looking south over Centre Rd
0:55+ Moving north from McKinnon towards Murray Rd
1:08+ Bentleigh, looking west over the concourse
1:19+ Moving north from Bentleigh towards the substation
1:23+ Bentleigh, hovering over the concourse looking north
1:27+ McKinnon, looking south over the concourse
1:31+ McKinnon again, looking south towards the concourse
historian
This is part of a truly City Changing project that I must admit I was sceptical  would get off the ground .
Truly congratulations to the State Government and all concerned .
PS I don`t always vote ALP!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Historian, are there any links anywhere where up-to-date photos can be seen of the works - I've tried looking but not even the Victorian government has current photos of the operations.

Others have already answered.

There must be a large number of photos around - lots of locals are taking pictures. I've even seen workers on the project snapping quick photos with their phones. I've got a few myself.
historian
There's not that much around surprisingly - even the Facebook page of the Level Xing Authority is seemingly more concerned with "community events" and such things to worry too much about actual updates on the construction work.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
With such a major change to the infrastructure how is crew training being handled? Will there be a period of empty trains for crew training or will it be done 'hands off' / video etc?
  steve195 Train Controller

Just FYI, according to the latest flyer in the mail from the LXRA the first test train between Caulfield and Moorabbin will run tonight from 1am until 8am tomorrow (30/7).
  steve195 Train Controller

Historian, are there any links anywhere where up-to-date photos can be seen of the works - I've tried looking but not even the Victorian government has current photos of the operations.

Others have already answered.

There must be a large number of photos around - lots of locals are taking pictures. I've even seen workers on the project snapping quick photos with their phones. I've got a few myself.
There's not that much around surprisingly - even the Facebook page of the Level Xing Authority is seemingly more concerned with "community events" and such things to worry too much about actual updates on the construction work.
don_dunstan
That's a bit harsh. They've been adding batches of 20-30 photos every few days as well as a some videos.
  aussie48 Locomotive Driver

Location: Melbourne
Well as one who has had to catch the bus for the last 6 weeks I can only say what a great piece of organisation it was, the drivers were great.  The only glitch in the 6 weeks was Monday when Metrol managed to get 2 Frankston trains into the same road at Caulfield and locked the signals out until they could bring one back out onto platform 2.  Looking forward to an uninterrupted Monday run into the City.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Travelled down to Frankston this morning, and it was a pleasant change to be on a train rather than a bustitution.

They've done a brilliant job getting all this back up and running inside 5 weeks. As it was dark and gloomy when I traveled I couldn't make out much in the trench although I could see where some features were. You definitely notice when you are under the new Ormond deck to the north of the station. And it wasn't hard to feel when the train was on descending or ascending grades as you would expect with the line coming back up to ground level in between stations. Where there has been sheet metal piling installed, the concrete reinforcement makes an interesting stripey effect. McKinnon was opened up this morning although I believe there is still a bit to do with construction up top. Ormond & Bentleigh will open later this month. It was interesting seeing the access to platforms at McKinnon where they had a long ramp that switches back.

Re distances between stations, between Ormond - McKinnon is about as long as it once was, but because the McKinnon platforms have been shifted south (under the bridge and out the other side) this brings it closer to Bentleigh. The Bentleigh platforms start under the bridge and are north faced so when leaving McKinnon almost instantly there was a train announcement to say we were approaching Bentleigh - and this is with another hump in the line grade.

Still, the construction is interesting to look at and it will take a few trips to notice all the features of the line. I'm curious as to the function of all the blue pipes that come out of the formation at the south end of each centre platform. Also, there has been large pipe style bracing installed south of the North Rd bridge across the top of the line, one of which carries the overheads. It will be great to see the whole project finished - once the stations are done I think there's landscaping and carparks.
  jp_metrowest Beginner

Location: St. Albans
I'd like to believe that someone has already asked and been given a response to this question, why for the love of all future election promises did they not remove the Glenhuntly level crossing as well? Whenever I have had to travel (read: tolerate) the Frankston line, the tram square at Glenhuntly station is most annoying/ slow/ time-consuming part of the trip on that section between Caulfield - Moorabbin.

But now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps the LXRA aren't concerned enough with it because it's not labelled "dangerous"?

I'm just saying, it would have been more logical to remove all of the level crossings in that section, instead of removing only 3 out of 4 (technically 5 if we want to include Neerim Rd) and leaving the one level crossing that creates a longer travel time/disruption.

But hey, I'm on the Sydenham/ Subury line. What are level crossings again? Razz
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I'd like to believe that someone has already asked and been given a response to this question, why for the love of all future election promises did they not remove the Glenhuntly level crossing as well? Whenever I have had to travel (read: tolerate) the Frankston line, the tram square at Glenhuntly station is most annoying/ slow/ time-consuming part of the trip on that section between Caulfield - Moorabbin.

But now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps the LXRA aren't concerned enough with it because it's not labelled "dangerous"?

I'm just saying, it would have been more logical to remove all of the level crossings in that section, instead of removing only 3 out of 4 (technically 5 if we want to include Neerim Rd) and leaving the one level crossing that creates a longer travel time/disruption.

But hey, I'm on the Sydenham/ Subury line. What are level crossings again? Razz
jp_metrowest
I don't think anyone can give you a definitive reason as to why Glenhuntly/Neerim hasn't bee done yet or has yet to be done, but I'll give you reasons I've heard.

When the third track went through in '87 apparently the locals were given an option of having the railway go over Glenhuntly/Neerim and they rejected the idea due to aesthetics. Given the prevailing design of the period which was very brutalist concrete (like Canterbury) they probably were justified in their decision when consulted.

The other reason I've heard is related to geology of the area. As most people would be aware the area used to be a swamp centered on Caulfield Racecourse. I believe that digging under Glenhuntly/Neerim would be extremely problematic due to a very high water table.

While it would be good to have them removed, and I believe that in the future they will have to be removed, there are numerous problems that have to be overcome first.
  steve195 Train Controller

I'd like to believe that someone has already asked and been given a response to this question, why for the love of all future election promises did they not remove the Glenhuntly level crossing as well? Whenever I have had to travel (read: tolerate) the Frankston line, the tram square at Glenhuntly station is most annoying/ slow/ time-consuming part of the trip on that section between Caulfield - Moorabbin.

But now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps the LXRA aren't concerned enough with it because it's not labelled "dangerous"?

I'm just saying, it would have been more logical to remove all of the level crossings in that section, instead of removing only 3 out of 4 (technically 5 if we want to include Neerim Rd) and leaving the one level crossing that creates a longer travel time/disruption.

But hey, I'm on the Sydenham/ Subury line. What are level crossings again? Razz
I don't think anyone can give you a definitive reason as to why Glenhuntly/Neerim hasn't bee done yet or has yet to be done, but I'll give you reasons I've heard.

When the third track went through in '87 apparently the locals were given an option of having the railway go over Glenhuntly/Neerim and they rejected the idea due to aesthetics. Given the prevailing design of the period which was very brutalist concrete (like Canterbury) they probably were justified in their decision when consulted.

The other reason I've heard is related to geology of the area. As most people would be aware the area used to be a swamp centered on Caulfield Racecourse. I believe that digging under Glenhuntly/Neerim would be extremely problematic due to a very high water table.

While it would be good to have them removed, and I believe that in the future they will have to be removed, there are numerous problems that have to be overcome first.
jdekorte
Not to mention they're not in marginal electorates Rolling Eyes

Plus if the railway goes over or under, you would likely lose the sidings at Caulfield. The dead end one could be kept at ground level I guess, but the through siding that is used by the steel train every day would be lost unless they build a 4 track wide cutting / viaduct.
Hardly an impossible engineering task, but the political will just isn't there. The member for Caulfield was championing a petition to have Glenhuntly rd grade separated not long ago (after 4 years in government where is he did nothing about it).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Historian, are there any links anywhere where up-to-date photos can be seen of the works - I've tried looking but not even the Victorian government has current photos of the operations.

Others have already answered.

There must be a large number of photos around - lots of locals are taking pictures. I've even seen workers on the project snapping quick photos with their phones. I've got a few myself.
There's not that much around surprisingly - even the Facebook page of the Level Xing Authority is seemingly more concerned with "community events" and such things to worry too much about actual updates on the construction work.
That's a bit harsh. They've been adding batches of 20-30 photos every few days as well as a some videos.
steve195
You have to dig a long way through promotional material to find it though and the time-lapse videos do not actually appear to show contiguous progress (only bits and bobs). If you have any direct links to better stuff then by all means please post them.
  steve195 Train Controller

Historian, are there any links anywhere where up-to-date photos can be seen of the works - I've tried looking but not even the Victorian government has current photos of the operations.

Others have already answered.

There must be a large number of photos around - lots of locals are taking pictures. I've even seen workers on the project snapping quick photos with their phones. I've got a few myself.
There's not that much around surprisingly - even the Facebook page of the Level Xing Authority is seemingly more concerned with "community events" and such things to worry too much about actual updates on the construction work.
That's a bit harsh. They've been adding batches of 20-30 photos every few days as well as a some videos.
steve195
You have to dig a long way through promotional material to find it though and the time-lapse videos do not actually appear to show contiguous progress (only bits and bobs). If you have any direct links to better stuff then by all means please post them.
"don_dunstan"

Haven't noticed that on in the time-lapses they've got on youtube tbh.
If you go here you can go straight to the works pics: https://www.facebook.com/levelcrossings/photos/?tab=albums
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
With such a major change to the infrastructure how is crew training being handled? Will there be a period of empty trains for crew training or will it be done 'hands off' / video etc?
YM-Mundrabilla
OK I will answer my own question.
By a heap of cancellations, of course. What else did I expect?


Putting on train proof jacket and hiding down the yard.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Just a recent observation on the Ginifer and St Albans trenches of late - they're looking more like quarries with a ridiculous amount of really hard rock needing to be broken up and removed.  Nasty geology to be honest.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Just a recent observation on the Ginifer and St Albans trenches of late - they're looking more like quarries with a ridiculous amount of really hard rock needing to be broken up and removed.  Nasty geology to be honest.
Carnot
I think geology was a reason they decided to go with the road over option at Sydneyham - the expense of breaking up all the hard basalt underneath. However all that broken rock will make landscape gardeners very happy.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Just a recent observation on the Ginifer and St Albans trenches of late - they're looking more like quarries with a ridiculous amount of really hard rock needing to be broken up and removed.  Nasty geology to be honest.
I think geology was a reason they decided to go with the road over option at Sydneyham - the expense of breaking up all the hard basalt underneath. However all that broken rock will make landscape gardeners very happy.
jdekorte
Being a local I am surprised how LITTLE rock there is to be removed here !
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Historian, are there any links anywhere where up-to-date photos can be seen of the works - I've tried looking but not even the Victorian government has current photos of the operations.

Others have already answered.

There must be a large number of photos around - lots of locals are taking pictures. I've even seen workers on the project snapping quick photos with their phones. I've got a few myself.
There's not that much around surprisingly - even the Facebook page of the Level Xing Authority is seemingly more concerned with "community events" and such things to worry too much about actual updates on the construction work.
That's a bit harsh. They've been adding batches of 20-30 photos every few days as well as a some videos.
You have to dig a long way through promotional material to find it though and the time-lapse videos do not actually appear to show contiguous progress (only bits and bobs). If you have any direct links to better stuff then by all means please post them.

Haven't noticed that on in the time-lapses they've got on youtube tbh.
If you go here you can go straight to the works pics: https://www.facebook.com/levelcrossings/photos/?tab=albums
steve195
Thank-you, that's more what I was looking for-
  steve195 Train Controller

Shortlisted options for the Frankston line (pic via Herald Sun):



No surprise that rail over is the only option for the Carrum area, where the line must cross the Patterson River.
I'd be very surprised if any cuttings are dug south of Mentone. Pumping and treating all that groundwater would be very expensive and unnecessary.


Just to update the opposition's stance on level crossing removals:
Long viaducts = skyrail = bad
Short cuttings / bridges = rollercoaster rail = bad
Leaving as at grade = eternal traffic gridlock = bad
No wonder they squandered the first half of their last term in government doing nothing.


EDIT: https://your.levelcrossings.vic.gov.au has quite a lot of detail for the various proposals if you can be bothered digging around. I don't recall so much being published before final decisions were made at other locations; certainly not with CD9.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Big shutdown looming for St Albans and Ginifer level crossing removals between Oct 4 and 30.

Bendigo/Swan Hill/Echuca services will also be fully bustituted.  That's a pain.
http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/4148529/no-compensation-for-hour-long-delays/?cs=3372

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