3801 Boiler

 
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
In my earlier post regarding the UP844 experience and reference to some excellent youtube clips of the restoration and the actual work team one of the issues related to corrosion and trying to minimize or eliminate it in addition to water treatment, is gaining a very thorough understanding of how the boiler etc is thoroughly dried after each outing to ensure moisture laden boiler lagging etc doesn't cause deterioration.  They also showed some very good examples in relation to the location and end point of various drain pipes etc intended to ensure that water and moisture that does accumulate is captured and directed away from where it could cause long term damage.   It all sounds obvious and logical but it was clear the guys at UP were thinking about the overall long term future of the locomotive, rather than fixing it for immediate operation.

Similarly a youtube clip related to the inspection and certification of the all welded boiler of the UK built Tornado and the benefits of a modern all welded boiler versus the boiler inspector's experience of inspecting and recertifying existing refurbished boilers was very interesting, notwithstanding that tornado did have boiler issues!!!

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  a6et Minister for Railways

In my earlier post regarding the UP844 experience and reference to some excellent youtube clips of the restoration and the actual work team one of the issues related to corrosion and trying to minimize or eliminate it in addition to water treatment, is gaining a very thorough understanding of how the boiler etc is thoroughly dried after each outing to ensure moisture laden boiler lagging etc doesn't cause deterioration.  They also showed some very good examples in relation to the location and end point of various drain pipes etc intended to ensure that water and moisture that does accumulate is captured and directed away from where it could cause long term damage.   It all sounds obvious and logical but it was clear the guys at UP were thinking about the overall long term future of the locomotive, rather than fixing it for immediate operation.

Similarly a youtube clip related to the inspection and certification of the all welded boiler of the UK built Tornado and the benefits of a modern all welded boiler versus the boiler inspector's experience of inspecting and recertifying existing refurbished boilers was very interesting, notwithstanding that tornado did have boiler issues!!!
Trainplanner
In looking at the variables that exist in each of the 3 countries that have been primarilly mentioned Australia, England & the U.S there is one thing seperating two of them from the other.  England is the odd one out as they as you & others point out have regular & if I read things correctly Steam is still used on a daily basis in many areas, whereas in the U.S & Australia, its very much confined to special & therefore irregular workings.

In regular service, Loco's are kept in steam between shifts & only knocked out for repairs, washouts & the like that require the fire to be dropped, even weekend working when not required for over 24 hours they were generally knocked down as the traffic slowed, only those engines required prior to the commencement of the next round of working were kept in steam, as it also meant keeping staff on duty to maintain them in the light steam scene, none had the water dropped for those periods either.

It would certainly be of benefit when there are long periods between operation for the water to be dropped from the boilers, & would be the case where ever they operate.    One other thing in regard to steel is the improvements in steel over the years, I remember a docuementary that investigated various theories with the Titanic sinking, that included testing samples of steel that was found from that era & the steel works that supplied the steel for Titanics hull, this docco was around 10 or more years ago, when different density & other tests were carried out on the steel they found a huge amount of impurities in it.

They added that steel of that quality had it been used in the Titanic itself would be a cause/reason why the strength of a floating iceberg was able to rip the hull open as easy as it did.  Comparing that steel to what is produced these days, showed how far the steel industry has come with strength & longevity.  Welded boilers have been very much the norm now for some time, owing to the advances in the steel quality as well as welding technologies as well.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In my earlier post regarding the UP844 experience and reference to some excellent youtube clips of the restoration and the actual work team one of the issues related to corrosion and trying to minimize or eliminate it in addition to water treatment, is gaining a very thorough understanding of how the boiler etc is thoroughly dried after each outing to ensure moisture laden boiler lagging etc doesn't cause deterioration.  They also showed some very good examples in relation to the location and end point of various drain pipes etc intended to ensure that water and moisture that does accumulate is captured and directed away from where it could cause long term damage.   It all sounds obvious and logical but it was clear the guys at UP were thinking about the overall long term future of the locomotive, rather than fixing it for immediate operation.

Similarly a youtube clip related to the inspection and certification of the all welded boiler of the UK built Tornado and the benefits of a modern all welded boiler versus the boiler inspector's experience of inspecting and recertifying existing refurbished boilers was very interesting, notwithstanding that tornado did have boiler issues!!!
Trainplanner
Any links, please, so that we are all reading/commenting on the same clip?
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
There's an old saying with boiler Water which I don't know where I heard, "It's not what your putting in that matters, it's what's in the Boiler that matters."

So if you are using a Tannin based Water Treatment which seems to be the most commonly used for loco Boilers There are 4 important readings taken when testing Boiler Water, Ph, Alkalinity, Tannin & Totally Disolved Solids.  If you can keep these in the required range all your problems should disappear.
Tannin was the common treatment put into all steam loco's during NSWGR days, 36cl were also required to have brikets placed in tenders at set locations. A small box was fitted to the coal backhead that was filled by the boilermakers for the fireman to put in at the specified points when taking water.  Not all locations had people that were able to add the tannin treatment to the supply into the overhead tanks.
a6et
For the treatment to be effective it needs to be added EVERY time the tank is filled, regardless of Water Quality.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
There's an old saying with boiler Water which I don't know where I heard, "It's not what your putting in that matters, it's what's in the Boiler that matters."

So if you are using a Tannin based Water Treatment which seems to be the most commonly used for loco Boilers There are 4 important readings taken when testing Boiler Water, Ph, Alkalinity, Tannin & Totally Disolved Solids.  If you can keep these in the required range all your problems should disappear.
Tannin was the common treatment put into all steam loco's during NSWGR days, 36cl were also required to have brikets placed in tenders at set locations. A small box was fitted to the coal backhead that was filled by the boilermakers for the fireman to put in at the specified points when taking water.  Not all locations had people that were able to add the tannin treatment to the supply into the overhead tanks.
For the treatment to be effective it needs to be added EVERY time the tank is filled, regardless of Water Quality.
NSWGR 3827
Agreed, on the VGR we mix treatment consisting of Water, Tannin, Liquid Sodium Hydroxide and Powdered Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda). This is mixed up into bottles and added at the approx rate of 1 per 1000 gallons of water every time the loco takes water. And we test for PH, P Alk, Tannin and TDS once a week where possible.

BG
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Having operated the boilers at Belgrave over several decades, also having seen (and been shocked by) the photos of the inside of other non-Victorian boilers; I have to endorse the remarks of Adam Black about boiler treatment. No matter how pure the water you get is, it will always need treatment for loco boilers (and any boiler, for that matter). The process of producing steam extracts only pure water from the feed water (whether tap, dam, tank, springs, creeks, etc), and what remains in the boiler is some form of mud. The boilers at Belgrave are in excellent condition, requiring minimal work to maintain. We tend to dose the locos daily, maybe a half serve twice daily, but not necessarily every time we fill the tanks; the thing is to get the chemicals in. Weekly testing of boiler water drives the quantities to be used, with adjustments according to what's found. Differing waters may result in different requirements, and that may be seasonal.

A contrast is seen in the UK, where they don't seem to worry too much about treatment. Their boilers often don't even make it to the 10 year mark without major repairs, and those that do seem to require major plate repairs/replacement.

Without knowing the details, I understand other steam locos in Victoria get reasonable treatment, and they don't seem to need major works regularly. Hopefully NSW takes the trouble to do likewise; an investment there may save an awful lot of trouble later.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Having operated the boilers at Belgrave over several decades, also having seen (and been shocked by) the photos of the inside of other non-Victorian boilers; I have to endorse the remarks of Adam Black about boiler treatment. No matter how pure the water you get is, it will always need treatment for loco boilers (and any boiler, for that matter). The process of producing steam extracts only pure water from the feed water (whether tap, dam, tank, springs, creeks, etc), and what remains in the boiler is some form of mud. The boilers at Belgrave are in excellent condition, requiring minimal work to maintain. We tend to dose the locos daily, maybe a half serve twice daily, but not necessarily every time we fill the tanks; the thing is to get the chemicals in. Weekly testing of boiler water drives the quantities to be used, with adjustments according to what's found. Differing waters may result in different requirements, and that may be seasonal.

A contrast is seen in the UK, where they don't seem to worry too much about treatment. Their boilers often don't even make it to the 10 year mark without major repairs, and those that do seem to require major plate repairs/replacement.

Without knowing the details, I understand other steam locos in Victoria get reasonable treatment, and they don't seem to need major works regularly. Hopefully NSW takes the trouble to do likewise; an investment there may save an awful lot of trouble later.
hbedriver
When I commented re the Tannin & the brickets for 36cl what needs to be remembered that with the way things are now in comparison to regular steam working that I was referring to its quite different.   Not every location had people that would go to add the tannin in the overhead tanks, thing was that I often wonder why the 36 needed the brickets while no other steam locomotive was required to put them in the tank when water was taken.  

Heading north from Enfield on steam, water was taken at Gosford where the treatment was carried out, I am not sure about Tuggerah, but Cockle Creek was not treated although the supply at Sulphide was. Ease of access from the Workshops opposite I would suggest.

To Goulburn, Campbeltown had Tannin Treatment then Moss Vale  None at Mittagong but not sure of Talong.  The wonder of Moss Vale was that it was the dayshift fuelmans job, the wonder boy that I copped on one trip to Goulburn on a 59c one Saturday was, after investigations owing to the engine priming badly going up Exeter looking at the water gauge the water was the colour of a dark burgundy wine, steaming across to Wingello it started to prime again, a stop at Wingello advising control of the problem & talking to Goulburn Chargemen after which we were advised to drain the tender & replace the water at Talong the driver filled his billy with the water & was given to the Chargeman at Goulburn..  Approachig Talong we saw it was attended & the ASM was aware that we would take water & both injectors were opened to drain the water to 1/4 & then I took water the driver blew the boiler down & departed with a full tank of water, no problems were experienced the rest of the trip although we were half expecting a priming episode at Marulan.
The upshot of the investigation came back was the fuelman had forgotten his daily duty of supplying the tannin to the O/head feeder & it wasn't until Saturday that he remembered so being conci he put six days supply into the tank.

Thats the sort of thing we had to put up with, thing also was that in many locations in the bush, many of the tanks & water supplies only had testings & checks done based on reports of water problems & travelling equipment personel were sent out to the problem areas if outside their routine inspections.

Today, every bit of tests & checks need to be carried out much more regularly than we had on the engines, as such its vital to be more pre active owing to costs in this day & age.  To get an engine in the condition that I witness these days was a luxury back then, & generally the only time we got a real good engine in every capacity was after they were released from Workshops after overhauls. The only other way was when a Bathurst allocated engine was brought to Enfielf for shops or to be set aside, in the case of 36cl as one or two chargemen would roster them to Goulburn as the engines always came into the depot in good mechanical order, as BX had a fitter there recognised as the best valve setter in the state.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
At last, some pleasing news about the 3801 Boiler Overhaul , this is from the RTM, and it has been posted on Facebook

"Local contractor appointed to repair locomotive 3801 boiler
Transport Heritage NSW today announced the successful contractor to complete a critical stage in the locomotive 3801 overhaul project.
Goulburn based firm K and H Ainsworth Engineering has been appointed to repair 3801’s original boiler following an extensive competitive tendering process.
Transport Heritage NSW CEO Andrew Moritz said the appointment reaffirms the organisation’s commitment to returning this iconic steam locomotive to heritage service.
“Today’s announcement means 3801’s boiler will be transported from Chullora to Goulburn with work to commence shortly thereafter,” said Mr. Moritz.
“The repair work is significant and will involve manufacturing processes never attempted in Australian standard gauge railway preservation.”
Hydraulic riveting machinery along with hand riveting will be required to connect new flanged plates to the existing boiler. The correct fitting of the hundreds of components that make up the boiler requires a great deal of skill and reliance on vital technical information, left to us by our predecessors in the NSW railways.
“For over a decade we have invested heavily in developing the traditional skills necessary to repair heritage boilers,” said K and H Ainsworth Engineering Managing Director, Ken Ainsworth.
“We are humbled by the confidence placed in us by Transport Heritage NSW, it is without doubt the most interesting project that we have been involved with.”
In addition to today’s contract signing, applications close this Sunday for two new full time tradesperson positions working on the 3801 project." - this should have been done in the first place might I say

Kind Regards
  M636C Minister for Railways

At the risk of appearing to flog a dead horse, a boiler that could have been repaired nine years ago is finally being repaired.

Apart from the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in the mean time with no result, we have lost any revenue that might have been made from maybe seven years of operation of 3801.

One reason we'll have to wait for 3830 is that the same contractor was thought to be favoured for that repair before the poorer condition of 3830's boiler became known.

M636C
  a6et Minister for Railways

At the risk of appearing to flog a dead horse, a boiler that could have been repaired nine years ago is finally being repaired.

Apart from the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in the mean time with no result, we have lost any revenue that might have been made from maybe seven years of operation of 3801.

One reason we'll have to wait for 3830 is that the same contractor was thought to be favoured for that repair before the poorer condition of 3830's boiler became known.

M636C
M636C
M, from my perspective the whole issue is nothing short of a debacle, & that's putting it mildly.

3 38cl are still in existence, aside from the Dorrigo scrap pile.  The issue in reality goes beyond just 3801 & 3830, the amount of money that has been outlaid over the years on those two loco's is crazy, & neither of them are running, which raises a question or many really, how much is going to be spent on this single boiler to get one engine back into service, & when will that happen? The German boiler is then to be repaired at how much expense, & what of 3830?  Likewise how much destruction has taken place with 3820?  Surelly these 3 loco's should be looked at with the objective of having the 3 of them servicable not just those 3 either.

The 3 36cl namely 09, 16 & 42 need to also be seriously looked at along with the spare boilers that were provided, are they still in existence? Having each of those engines in operating conditions, means NSW has a fleet of main line loco's capable of operating with decent loads, along with speed capabilities also, 3526 could then be basically a back up for variety as needed.

I know the usual cry about cost & money will be raised but again I wonder how much would have been left over from what has been spent so far on basically 2 engines, 01 & 30?  Had a proper set up with people who knew what they were doing, along with a proper program with objectives been looked at rather than a type of ad hoc situation, these loco's should have been running at this moment.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
It says that K and H Engineering was established back in 1989, so that means they would have been around when the original tendering process was underway for 3801's Boiler, does anyone know if they put a tender in at the time, or were they sought out?
Kind Regards
  a6et Minister for Railways

It says that K and H Engineering was established back in 1989, so that means they would have been around when the original tendering process was underway for 3801's Boiler, does anyone know if they put a tender in at the time, or were they sought out?
Kind Regards
lsrailfan
Not sure if they were around or tender for the boiler, but I understand that Ipswich workshops along with another Sydney company put in tenders as well, sure there were others in Oz, one may have been the company that did the new boiler for 3265 but not sure on that.

I guess they, ORH have learnt lessons from this, & with the above report it actually augurs a bit better for the future especially as they are advertised for 2 new full time tradesmen to work on the project.  That really is a big step forward for the future. However, if they really want to make a real statement for the future of rail heritage in NSW they should seriously look at the doing up of the LES & make it the primary base for overhauls for steam loco's.

Not only that but make it the base for the primary operational fleet rather than Thirlmere, mainly for the simple reason it would eliminate the need to run empty cars to Sydney to commence the workiing out of Central, also to take the carriages back to Thirlmere. I understand that still goes on, & means that there is a need to pay for the use of the rails for 2 empty car workings, money saved would be better spent on maintenance & the like.
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
It says that K and H Engineering was established back in 1989, so that means they would have been around when the original tendering process was underway for 3801's Boiler, does anyone know if they put a tender in at the time, or were they sought out?
Kind Regards
lsrailfan
That should be K and H Ainsworth Engineering.  Yes, they were around in 2007 and my understanding is that they submitted a tender for the new boiler, but were overlooked in the tender evaluations.

Happy boilering,

John
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
It says that K and H Engineering was established back in 1989, so that means they would have been around when the original tendering process was underway for 3801's Boiler, does anyone know if they put a tender in at the time, or were they sought out?
Kind Regards
Not sure if they were around or tender for the boiler, but I understand that Ipswich workshops along with another Sydney company put in tenders as well, sure there were others in Oz, one may have been the company that did the new boiler for 3265 but not sure on that.

I guess they, ORH have learnt lessons from this, & with the above report it actually augurs a bit better for the future especially as they are advertised for 2 new full time tradesmen to work on the project.  That really is a big step forward for the future. However, if they really want to make a real statement for the future of rail heritage in NSW they should seriously look at the doing up of the LES & make it the primary base for overhauls for steam loco's.

Not only that but make it the base for the primary operational fleet rather than Thirlmere, mainly for the simple reason it would eliminate the need to run empty cars to Sydney to commence the workiing out of Central, also to take the carriages back to Thirlmere. I understand that still goes on, & means that there is a need to pay for the use of the rails for 2 empty car workings, money saved would be better spent on maintenance & the like.
a6et
a6et,

Refer my response re K&H Ainsworth.

Unfortunately ORH (RailCorp) didn't apparently learn anything.  The incoming Lib/Nat Government decided to eliminate them and hand their portfolio over to the RTM, along with many pieces of silver.  The RTM responded by reconstituting itself as THNSW.  They have been trying to excavate themselves out of the 3801 boiler debacle ever since, with at least one hand tied behind their back and hobbles on their ankles.  It appears they are nearing success (at least with 3801, and assuming no further boiler surprises are found).

Perhaps in late 2017, or more realistically early 2018, we will have one C38 in trafficable condition.

My main worry is that sooner or later the goose (NSW Gov't) will stop laying golden eggs, and THNSW will have to morph back into the poor old RTM (if that is possible).  There will then be insufficient funds to run TrainWorks and a reasonable fleet of operational steam/diesel locomotives.  

Happy steaming,

John
  a6et Minister for Railways

It says that K and H Engineering was established back in 1989, so that means they would have been around when the original tendering process was underway for 3801's Boiler, does anyone know if they put a tender in at the time, or were they sought out?
Kind Regards
Not sure if they were around or tender for the boiler, but I understand that Ipswich workshops along with another Sydney company put in tenders as well, sure there were others in Oz, one may have been the company that did the new boiler for 3265 but not sure on that.

I guess they, ORH have learnt lessons from this, & with the above report it actually augurs a bit better for the future especially as they are advertised for 2 new full time tradesmen to work on the project.  That really is a big step forward for the future. However, if they really want to make a real statement for the future of rail heritage in NSW they should seriously look at the doing up of the LES & make it the primary base for overhauls for steam loco's.

Not only that but make it the base for the primary operational fleet rather than Thirlmere, mainly for the simple reason it would eliminate the need to run empty cars to Sydney to commence the workiing out of Central, also to take the carriages back to Thirlmere. I understand that still goes on, & means that there is a need to pay for the use of the rails for 2 empty car workings, money saved would be better spent on maintenance & the like.
a6et,

Refer my response re K&H Ainsworth.

Unfortunately ORH (RailCorp) didn't apparently learn anything.  The incoming Lib/Nat Government decided to eliminate them and hand their portfolio over to the RTM, along with many pieces of silver.  The RTM responded by reconstituting itself as THNSW.  They have been trying to excavate themselves out of the 3801 boiler debacle ever since, with at least one hand tied behind their back and hobbles on their ankles.  It appears they are nearing success (at least with 3801, and assuming no further boiler surprises are found).

Perhaps in late 2017, or more realistically early 2018, we will have one C38 in trafficable condition.

My main worry is that sooner or later the goose (NSW Gov't) will stop laying golden eggs, and THNSW will have to morph back into the poor old RTM (if that is possible).  There will then be insufficient funds to run TrainWorks and a reasonable fleet of operational steam/diesel locomotives.  

Happy steaming,

John
c3526blue
Scary isn't it?  The LES has the potential to off an income stream as a flow on advertising & promotion of what could be a mini York museum, offering gold coin donation tours of the shops & promotion of the use of rail in the history of NSW, showing the works off & the work on locomotives by means of viewing platforms.

But such things would not fit the boffins as it would seem to be sensible.
  M636C Minister for Railways


The 3 36cl namely 09, 16 & 42 need to also be seriously looked at along with the spare boilers that were provided, are they still in existence? Having each of those engines in operating conditions, means NSW has a fleet of main line loco's capable of operating with decent loads, along with speed capabilities also, 3526 could then be basically a back up for variety as needed.

I know the usual cry about cost & money will be raised but again I wonder how much would have been left over from what has been spent so far on basically 2 engines, 01 & 30?  Had a proper set up with people who knew what they were doing, along with a proper program with objectives been looked at rather than a type of ad hoc situation, these loco's should have been running at this moment.
a6et
I would think that 3616 would be a good subject for restoration.

Apart from the Giesl ejector, which had a distinctive sound, 3616 had relatively new cast steel cylinders with larger piston valves and was said to be able to haul 38 class loads when properly handled.

I seem to recall that the RTM had a couple of spare 36 class boilers, and changed the boiler on 3642 some years ago. Assuming that the boiler taken FROM 3642 were to be repairable, there should be at least one spare now.

The ARHS ACT have a 36 boiler which I think has been steam tested (although I may be wrong there). My recollection was that ARHS ACT wished to fit that boiler to 3616 or 3609 were they to be given the locomotive to run once restored.

While speaking of Eveleigh, there are four 36 class boilers there as stationary boilers, presumably not used in the last 40 years or so. If one or more of those were suitable for restoration, it might be replaced by a boiler from 3616 or 3609 assuming they were in worse condition.

There was at least one spare 59 class boiler at the RTM I recall seeing. One of the two remaining oil burning 59s at Goulburn might be restored to operation. These would be easier to refuel on trips to remote locations, using the road tankers used by many operators these days. And the firebox of a 59 is much easier to inspect externally at least than a 36...

M636C
  a6et Minister for Railways


The 3 36cl namely 09, 16 & 42 need to also be seriously looked at along with the spare boilers that were provided, are they still in existence? Having each of those engines in operating conditions, means NSW has a fleet of main line loco's capable of operating with decent loads, along with speed capabilities also, 3526 could then be basically a back up for variety as needed.

I know the usual cry about cost & money will be raised but again I wonder how much would have been left over from what has been spent so far on basically 2 engines, 01 & 30?  Had a proper set up with people who knew what they were doing, along with a proper program with objectives been looked at rather than a type of ad hoc situation, these loco's should have been running at this moment.I would think that 3616 would be a good subject for restoration.

Apart from the Giesl ejector, which had a distinctive sound, 3616 had relatively new cast steel cylinders with larger piston valves and was said to be able to haul 38 class loads when properly handled.

I seem to recall that the RTM had a couple of spare 36 class boilers, and changed the boiler on 3642 some years ago. Assuming that the boiler taken FROM 3642 were to be repairable, there should be at least one spare now.

The ARHS ACT have a 36 boiler which I think has been steam tested (although I may be wrong there). My recollection was that ARHS ACT wished to fit that boiler to 3616 or 3609 were they to be given the locomotive to run once restored.

While speaking of Eveleigh, there are four 36 class boilers there as stationary boilers, presumably not used in the last 40 years or so. If one or more of those were suitable for restoration, it might be replaced by a boiler from 3616 or 3609 assuming they were in worse condition.

There was at least one spare 59 class boiler at the RTM I recall seeing. One of the two remaining oil burning 59s at Goulburn might be restored to operation. These would be easier to refuel on trips to remote locations, using the road tankers used by many operators these days. And the firebox of a 59 is much easier to inspect externally at least than a 36...

M636C
M636C
Having worked on 3616 a couple of times it certainly was a big improvement over the standard pigs, although I found two other standard ones nearly as good 51 & 64. the latter being the only one I ever worked on to Goulburn with a full load that the coal was still reacheable in the tender without stretching after shunting Berrima.

I am sure that there were several brand new boilers at some point that were discovered at Chullora in the vicinity of the boiler shops when it was closed, this was after the move out of Enfield. It did not include the two boilers that were used as stationary boilers at the same location, nor the ones at Eveliegh.

The other aspect with 09 was that it was given an overhaul at Eveliegh that was listed as medium but ended as Heavy overhaul as it was to be the last one prior to withdrawal & then to the RTM.  It went West for a very short time then to Enfield prior to withdrawal & the positioning of it at Petersham.

In each case, much would depend on the condition of them all, & would be good to see a full inspection carried out on them. 42 had a cracked frame which was discovered during the Goulburn overhaul, which they said was the cause of rough riding, which rubbish as even after its being returned to service it was no better in riding capabilities than before.   Depending on the frames, it would be good to see both 09 & 16 taken in to shops & stripped for inspections, with the aim to get them eventually back into traffic, this would provide more opportunities to train up staff for these loco's & into the future.

Having an oily back in service would be nice, though I am glad I will not be working on the stinking thins, especially with headaches they can create when working hard.  I am pretty sure that when they were allocated SOG & before going to BM for stationary boilers they used a primary Deisaline mix for fuel oil, whether they had any additives is an unknown.  Once they were down to 2 serviceable oilies they were placed at Grafton as it limited the needs for a large quantity of suitable fuel for them at more than that location.

Given the right coal, the 59's were a better loco to fire than a 38cl so much so that they were able to retain steam on long downhill grades for long periods, problem was that without due care in watching the fire rather than just the gauge the fire could go out especailly in the front corners.  I loved them going to Glbn as once you left Campbelltown & the couple of drifting dips before you hit the grades past Douglas Park you were steaming all the way to MV, & were by far the easiest to maintain steam in.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
For anyone that hasn't seen the most recent Roundhouse magazine, THNSW has developed at least the broad guidelines of a plan for the future of the fleet beyond the engines currently operational or in the workshops.  The guiding principle of this plan would be to have multiple engines per class operational into the future in order to always have one available.  

3203, 3214, 3609, 3616 and 3820 are the locos that have not been recently operational that are currently considered candidates for operation beyond 2017 should they be required.  3820 is on the list should MAAS decide not to return 3830 to service.  A second 36 is the most likely candidate in the near term as THNSW have three spare 36 class boilers.
  jsaunders Station Staff

Location: Windsor, Brisbane
http://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/single-post/2016/10/24/Firebox-gets-removed-from-locomotive-3801

'GALLERY: Watch the inner firebox of locomotive 3801 being removed to allow for sand blasting and inspection. These images were captured last week at the K and H Ainsworth Engineering facility in Goulburn NSW.'

Good to see regular updates from THNSW.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
http://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/single-post/2016/10/24/Firebox-gets-removed-from-locomotive-3801

'GALLERY: Watch the inner firebox of locomotive 3801 being removed to allow for sand blasting and inspection. These images were captured last week at the K and H Ainsworth Engineering facility in Goulburn NSW.'
jsaunders
Pity they weren't captured 5-10 years ago...
  Thunda Junior Train Controller

Unfortunately not every boiler operated in Victoria in the last 10 years has received adequate boiler water treatment. This pipe had only been in service for 5 years. Rest of the boiler internals show scale and corrosion too......


[img]https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5760/30708989145_ba7f2d1bb8_o.jpg[/img]
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The pic shows perfectly the need for proper treatment.
The two besetting problems in a boiler are acid corrosion, and rust.
Acid corrosion is easily countered by using sodium hydroxide ( caustic soda) in measured doses to keep the pH around 9 (the pH scale has 7 as neutral, 1 or under is very strongly acid, and 14 is very strongly alkaline).
Rust is ferroso-ferric oxide (Formula Fe3O4 - the "Fe" being Iron and the "O" being oxygen) A mixture of tannin and sodium sulphite is a very good oxygen scavenger by forming harmless compounds and leaving little or no oxygen available to work with the iron to make rust.
  M636C Minister for Railways

http://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/single-post/2016/10/24/Firebox-gets-removed-from-locomotive-3801

'GALLERY: Watch the inner firebox of locomotive 3801 being removed to allow for sand blasting and inspection. These images were captured last week at the K and H Ainsworth Engineering facility in Goulburn NSW.'

Good to see regular updates from THNSW.
jsaunders
Regular updates were needed for the last ten years.....

I was surprised how much the boiler looked like the now politically incorrect German Boiler, even to the same shade of grey paint.

I really can't believe that a new boiler built and tested in a factory that has built many boilers now in service was incapable of use on the locomotive it was designed for, even if some modifications were required.

M636C
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

It would certainly seem more sensible to modify the frame to make the boiler fit rather than waffle around for another 5 years with nothing at all.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It would certainly seem more sensible to modify the frame to make the boiler fit rather than waffle around for another 5 years with nothing at all.
Showtime
Not a sensible suggestion to try and modify a cast steel under frame which are now unobtainable.

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