V-Set replacement contract announced

 
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

I don't see that the Blue Mountain's commuters would be very impressed that they have to get off at Penrith and change trains, changing platforms... for starters it would add 10 minutes to a already long trip.
Won't happen anyway, the new trains are ordered.
Jim K
As i stated above, The only time it would add for the majority of patrons is the slightly slower suburban service to central.  (it will be faster since most then need to change trains at central anyway, its a long walk from platforms 1-15 to the suburban platforms)

And not having massive service gaps of 1-2 hours wouldn't be taken negatively.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I don't see that the Blue Mountain's commuters would be very impressed that they have to get off at Penrith and change trains, changing platforms... for starters it would add 10 minutes to a already long trip.
Won't happen anyway, the new trains are ordered.
Jim K

We didn't say to cancel the current services, but to add some single deck services to augment these services. Several 2 car single deck services could run in between these services providing some additional frequency in the area.
  johnboy Chief Commissioner

Location: Up the road from Gulgong
I have had to spend the last two weeks catching a mountain service to the city at all different odd times. What I noted with the exception of one train this afternoon full of school kids coming back from an excursion, none of the trains were full, always plenty of seats both in the morning and afternoon peak ... I don't see a need for any extra services west of Emu Plains.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner


Maybe having a single decked option and change trains at penrith for blue mountains services?That's a funny idea.... or are you being serious?!
I think that some single deck trains running along the blue mountains lines isn't such a bad idea. I think the Bathurst bullet is a silly idea as well. I think that the endeavour should be running shuttles all day between Lithgow and Bathurst to feed the DD electrics. It could also stop at some stations along the way that the bullet can't offer due to time issues.
simstrain
I think that the Bathurst Bullet should continue as a through service to Sydney and then return in the morning with an additional afternoon service from Bathurst and then the evening return service.  If they had additional rolling stock available, then you could certainly have a shuttle service to Lithgow, even to and from Orange.  I don't see why intermediate stations such as Tarana and Wallerawang can't be serviced by the Bullet as there would be a negligible time penalty.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

When the new trains are introduced, there should be at least an hourly service to Lithgow and half hourly to Lawson in the off peak (where a new turnback has been constructed).
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia

Maybe having a single decked option and change trains at penrith for blue mountains services?That's a funny idea.... or are you being serious?!
I think that some single deck trains running along the blue mountains lines isn't such a bad idea. I think the Bathurst bullet is a silly idea as well. I think that the endeavour should be running shuttles all day between Lithgow and Bathurst to feed the DD electrics. It could also stop at some stations along the way that the bullet can't offer due to time issues.I think that the Bathurst Bullet should continue as a through service to Sydney and then return in the morning with an additional afternoon service from Bathurst and then the evening return service.  If they had additional rolling stock available, then you could certainly have a shuttle service to Lithgow, even to and from Orange.  I don't see why intermediate stations such as Tarana and Wallerawang can't be serviced by the Bullet as there would be a negligible time penalty.
Transtopic
A study completed at the start of this confirmed that the Bullet won't extend to Orange, nor has political support despite a local push. Time for Tarana and Wallerwang PAX services was not an issue, the lack of passengers were. I have a collegue that travels Lithgow to Bathurst 3 days a week for work, she prefers the bus as it is normally just under 1 hour where the train is longer (not that the train runs when she need to). A shuttle train would be a waste of money compared to a bus.
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
When the new trains are introduced, there should be at least an hourly service to Lithgow and half hourly to Lawson in the off peak (where a new turnback has been constructed).
Transtopic
No enough PAX, in fact, Sydney Trains are still planning to de-electrify Mt Victoria to Lithgow due to high cost of maintenance v bus costs. Barrier count in 2014 shows an average of 13 people per train at Lithgow.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Dewiring the western side of the mountains is one of the stupidest decisions to ever come out of a human being.  While the maintenance is high due to the age and location, it is so hilly that it defy's commonsense to get rid of electric trains. It also causes an issue because so many NSW trainlink coach services are a normal intercity electric service to lithgow, where the coach then starts. Everywhere else in the world they are sticking up wires in these places.

The problem with the bathurst bullet running all the way to sydney is 3/4 of the journey is already covered by the electric blue mountains services.   It also takes up alot of train paths due to it not stopping, and having its higher track speed.   Just the fuel usage would be huge.

The lithgow -bathurst track has plenty of capacity, it had so much capacity that they singled the track, so adding a few more loops won't ever be an issue.  You can either have the 2 bathurst endeavour services a day, or you can have 8 shuttles to lithgow.  
Direct bathurst services should come in the form of long distance services to dubbo and broken hill (maybe parkes), so it should have 3 direct services.
  msct095 Station Master

I have had to spend the last two weeks catching a mountain service to the city at all different odd times. What I noted with the exception of one train this afternoon full of school kids coming back from an excursion, none of the trains were full, always plenty of seats both in the morning and afternoon peak ... I don't see a need for any extra services west of Emu Plains.
johnboy
From personal experience, as well as anecdotal experiences of my ex-flatmate and family, the BM trains can be quite busy on the weekend East of Katoomba. There should be stats somewhere to dig up.
  msct095 Station Master

When the new trains are introduced, there should be at least an hourly service to Lithgow and half hourly to Lawson in the off peak (where a new turnback has been constructed).
No enough PAX, in fact, Sydney Trains are still planning to de-electrify Mt Victoria to Lithgow due to high cost of maintenance v bus costs. Barrier count in 2014 shows an average of 13 people per train at Lithgow.
Jim K
Does that include transfers from regional coaches? Usually those pax have a paper/email ticket and get waved through the barriers.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

I have had to spend the last two weeks catching a mountain service to the city at all different odd times. What I noted with the exception of one train this afternoon full of school kids coming back from an excursion, none of the trains were full, always plenty of seats both in the morning and afternoon peak ... I don't see a need for any extra services west of Emu Plains.
From personal experience, as well as anecdotal experiences of my ex-flatmate and family, the BM trains can be quite busy on the weekend East of Katoomba. There should be stats somewhere to dig up.
msct095
The most crowded train i've ever been on was a weekend central-lithgow service. People were physically unable to board from granville.  This was also only 30mins after a mt victoria service. And this is someone who regularly uses the infamous 7:25am 3 car ferny grove train.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

The SMH is reporting that the new intercity fleet of Korean trains will be guardless. The train driver will assume further responsibilities because they are obviously not doing enough as it is... If you read between the lines, they will prolly disappear too...

The cheap Oscar imitations are somehow going to alert the driver when a pax has fallen through the the crack between the platform and the train, and when any other mishap occurs.

I think that the Blue Mountains, Newcastle and Illawarra lines will soon be passengerless.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I don't see that the Blue Mountain's commuters would be very impressed that they have to get off at Penrith and change trains, changing platforms... for starters it would add 10 minutes to a already long trip.
Won't happen anyway, the new trains are ordered.
Jim K

I'm sick and tired of hearing this. The reason why this is a good idea is because of how many people from the blue mountains really need to go all the way into the Sydney CBD. Offering a more frequent service to get to Penrith is not such a bad idea. Westfields is a significant attraction for people in the mountains. NRL games at Penrith. Many reasons why a more frequent connection to Penrith is required. This solution works well in the southern highlands as well.
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
I don't see that the Blue Mountain's commuters would be very impressed that they have to get off at Penrith and change trains, changing platforms... for starters it would add 10 minutes to a already long trip.
Won't happen anyway, the new trains are ordered.

I'm sick and tired of hearing this. The reason why this is a good idea is because of how many people from the blue mountains really need to go all the way into the Sydney CBD. Offering a more frequent service to get to Penrith is not such a bad idea. Westfields is a significant attraction for people in the mountains. NRL games at Penrith. Many reasons why a more frequent connection to Penrith is required. This solution works well in the southern highlands as well.
simstrain
As a infrequent but former commuter from Katoomba, the majority of Blue Mountains take the train to Central or Parramatta. Anyone that I know that went to Penrith generally drove.

If a demand to Penrith from Central is required, put on more suburban services....
Having commuters change trains at Penrith for Blue Mountains is the most bizare backward step suggested. I am glad that it won't happen.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Has there been any discussion of nominations of particular V-set cars for preservation? If so, which ones have been looked at? Are there any particular power cars/trailers that are stand outs that should be nominated for preservation based on condition and/or historic significance?
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
Has there been any discussion of nominations of particular V-set cars for preservation? If so, which ones have been looked at? Are there any particular power cars/trailers that are stand outs that should be nominated for preservation based on condition and/or historic significance?
SydneyCider
SETS maybe only organisation that maybe considering this, as the Goverment will get rid of the lot. SETS I gather don't have any double-deckers in their fleet.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Has there been any discussion of nominations of particular V-set cars for preservation? If so, which ones have been looked at? Are there any particular power cars/trailers that are stand outs that should be nominated for preservation based on condition and/or historic significance?
SETS maybe only organisation that maybe considering this, as the Goverment will get rid of the lot. SETS I gather don't have any double-deckers in their fleet.
Jim K

This government has been very good in regards to preservation. They already have a nominated S set for preservation and the V set discussion will happen once the new intercity fleet is here.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
As projected by nearly everyone in this thread - oops, the COTS design is too wide to fit the outer line. Time to modify the platforms....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/new-intercity-trains-too-wide-for-rail-line-to-stations-in-blue-mountains-20161005-grvmns.html
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

As projected by nearly everyone in this thread - oops, the COTS design is too wide to fit the outer line. Time to modify the platforms....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/new-intercity-trains-too-wide-for-rail-line-to-stations-in-blue-mountains-20161005-grvmns.html
jcouch
Best way would be to close Linden and cut the platform right back. It attracts little patronage and not that far from Woodford for car parking. Most customers who alight at Linden complete the remainder of their trip by car. The few that don't, tough luck. Not sure what is wrong with Warrimoo since OSCARS already traverse that platform and in the past also Tangaras on the way to Springwood.

There are not many obstacles in the way of OSCARS reaching Katoomba at the moment.

There is a rumor going around the stations that the Lawson turnback will be used shortly to turn back Tangaras. Who knows!!!!
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
As projected by nearly everyone in this thread - oops, the COTS design is too wide to fit the outer line. Time to modify the platforms....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/new-intercity-trains-too-wide-for-rail-line-to-stations-in-blue-mountains-20161005-grvmns.html
jcouch
Well, this is good news then.

The widening work west of Springwood should have been done years ago to allow OSCARS to progress to at least Katoomba.

As for 'short platforms', the majority of Blue Mountains stations can not handle an 8 car V set now, so why the big concern?

Labor make a mountain out of a mole hill?
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

If they are going to all this work to allow the trains past the platforms, they should just extend all the stations to at least 8 cars, and ideally to 10 cars.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

If the Korean Oscars are too wide for the BM line, then they should end their trip at Penrith, and let the V sets do the rest of the journey west. This way, the Korean Oscars will come within budget and on-time, and nobody will be red faced Embarassed. Nobody would even notice.

Alternatively, the government may consider other types of rolling stock for the BM/Central Coast/Illawarra lines:

http://www.volvobuses.se/sv-se/our-offering/buses/volvo-8900.html

With this type of rolling stock, the dream of having a guard free (and driverless) service would be realised sooner. Nobody would even notice  ...
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
If the Korean Oscars are too wide for the BM line, then they should end their trip at Penrith, and let the V sets do the rest of the journey west. This way, the Korean Oscars will come within budget and on-time, and nobody will be red faced Embarassed. Nobody would even notice.
ANR
Except that the V Sets are to be retired.

Just fix the Blue Mountains to accept 21st Century trains!
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

If the Korean Oscars are too wide for the BM line, then they should end their trip at Penrith, and let the V sets do the rest of the journey west. This way, the Korean Oscars will come within budget and on-time, and nobody will be red faced Embarassed. Nobody would even notice.
Except that the V Sets are to be retired.

Just fix the Blue Mountains to accept 21st Century trains!
Jim K
Are the ten tunnels capable of having two oscars pass through them at speed? If not, that's a costly procedure.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Are the ten tunnels capable of having two oscars pass through them at speed? If not, that's a costly procedure.
tazzer9

IMHO they'll reclassify the line to Mt Victoria, Lithgow will be DMUed.  Very little - if anything - needs to be done for this.

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