New VLP Timetable January 2017

 
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

For the extra Warrnambool weekday train is the 1700 down leaving Geelong at 1700 or Melbourne at 1700 or arriving into Warrnambool at 1700?

What does that train do between it arriving into Geelong in the morning until it leaves in the afternoon?
beanzs27
Under the Mulder regime  VLP  planned a 1545 Weekdays Down Warrnambool ex Southern Cross , ex Geelong 1700 ish and arriving in Warrnambool at 19 10 . On the Up that was proposed as an 0745 ex Warrnambool arriving Geelong  1000 and Southern Cross at 1110 . 1321 Down was altered to 1240 and late afternoon Up also ran earlier .

Now for some obscure reason it is only planned as a Warrnambool - Geelong loco hauled return on Weekdays, still as 0745 ish ex Warrnambool and  1700 ish on Down ex Geelong .  Non sensical really as ties up two sets am and PM peak any way so may as well run through to / from Melbourne (express Geelong / Footscray)  .  Who knows  VLP runs the operation to largely suit the operators playing trains, not to meet passenger requirements .  The oldies are just going to love changing trains at Geelong, when it is totally avoidable .  VLP should look at running  Warrnambools express via Werribee except at peak hours in peak direction to free up paths on RRL . Would make Warrnambool trains 15 minutes faster than using circuitous RRL route via Tarneit .

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  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

PTV Feedback lists proposed times for extra  services to  Warrnambool,  Maryborough & Shepparton in January 2017 tt  change .

1.  Weekday Warrnambool  extra now appear to be through trains to Southern Cross (originally announced as Geelong - Warrnambool services.)
Up  proposed as  0905 ex Warrnambool crossing 0720 Dn @ Camperdown and arriving Sourthern Cross at    1233
Down proposed as  1713 ex Southern Cross crossing 1750 Up @ Warncoort and Up Goods @ Camperdown  arriving Warrnambool @  2054
A standard timetable is proposed for  Saturdays & Sundays  : (with additional Midday Up & Down Sunday trips)  
Dn  0700  (arr Warrnambool  1046)  1300  (arr 1630)  1900 (arr 2230)
Up  0740  (arr Sthn Cross  1106)  1130  (arr 1457)  1730  (arr 2057)
Sunday Warrnambool  coaches  Warrnambool - Geelong continue as now ( 1610 train ex Melb/ 1720 Coach ex Geelong arr Wbool 2000; and  1210 Coach ex Wbool/1552 Train ex Geelong arr  Stn Cross  1654)
Weekday train coach  Sthn Cross train 1622  / Geelong coach 1745  Colac arr  1912  continues as now .

2. Maryborough - Weekdays .
Additional  0917  Dn  to run as double consist VL split at Ballarat; half to Wendouree as now,  half to Maryborough arr  1138.
Existing 1552  Up Ballarat altered to originate at Maryborough at 1459 and arrive Sthn Cross at 1714   .  

3.  Shepparton -  Weekdays

Two Options are considered for the PM Down services  :

Option 1  -  Dn services at  1431 and  1822   Option 2 -  Down services at  1531 and  1651

Weekends -  a common Weekend timetable is proposed with additional midday Up & Down services .

Down ex Sthn Cross at  0912  1212  1832    Up ex Shepparton at  0830  1230  1630

Comment :  

1. Set back pass crosses are messy and time consuming . As such a new remote loop as at Warncoort needs to be put in ASAP at Boorcan to replace the archaic arrangements at  Camperdown .

2. The Sunday Up coach from Warrnambool to Geelong would be best altered to depart around an hour later , as with a train at  1130 and a coach / train at  1210, the coach will be empty .  

3. VLP/PTV need to alter the Weekday am Up Sheppartons to attract more patronage. The existing 0515 Up carries less than a coach load beyond Seymour.  A better Up am timetable would be an 0600 ex Shepparton forming the 0654 Up Seymour, and the second train out of Shepparton between 0800 - 0830 .  
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
1. Set back pass crosses are messy and time consuming . As such a new remote loop as at Warncoort needs to be put in ASAP at Boorcan to replace the archaic arrangements at  Camperdown .

 
kuldalai
Is Boorcan the preferred location for a crossing loop.

Between Oswells Road and Boorcan Road, or closer to the former Timboon Junction ?

1200 metres ?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

A cheap and nasty Up platform, at least 2 carriages long, could be built at Camperdown by January, probably for less than $200,000. (NSW has one-door platforms.) Later works could include:
- extending and improving the new platform.
- extending the loop to at least 800m, closing the Church Street crossing.
- improving the signalling to Warncoort standard.

It's better sitting at a platform than waiting in a remote loop. It also means that, in the case of passenger trains, assuming they are stopping at Camperdown, both trains only have to stop once rather than one having to stop twice to effect a cross. Further extensions to the loop, if required, could be accommodated by building an overpass/underpass at the Camperdown-Lismore Road crossing.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
A cheap and nasty Up platform, at least 2 carriages long, could be built at Camperdown by January, probably for less than $200,000. (NSW has one-door platforms.) Later works could include:
- extending and improving the new platform.
- extending the loop to at least 800m, closing the Church Street crossing.
- improving the signalling to Warncoort standard.

It's better sitting at a platform than waiting in a remote loop. It also means that, in the case of passenger trains, assuming they are stopping at Camperdown, both trains only have to stop once rather than one having to stop twice to effect a cross. Further extensions to the loop, if required, could be accommodated by building an overpass/underpass at the Camperdown-Lismore Road crossing.
kitchgp
Any platform would require a pedestrian level crossing installed, would probably have to be the length of the trains stopping there else someone in the bureaucracy would go insane, and probably some amount of shelter.

I'm trying to think of a recent example of a "cheap" platform being built. Epsom comes to mind, but that has Myki Readers, a carpark, and the total costing of $7.7 million includes upgrades to Eaglehawk. I still doubt you'd get it done for anywhere close to $200,000.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
I can understand the argument for Boorcan loop over a second platform at Camperdown. A pedestrian crossing and platform + shelter for maybe 1 train to stop at a day seems a bit overkill, even if you went for a 'minimum-viable' option. By that I mean no gates on the ped crossing (that's a DDA nightmare), plonking down a prefab bus shelter and build the platform as an earthen berm with a concrete panel face and crushed rock surface instead of asphalt. It'd look positively third-world! I reckon with private contractors it'd end up costing about $200K, but given that the Government (and government contractors) would be involved, even if you didn't try to gold-plate it you'd end up throwing ~$600K at such a structure.

It also doesn't make the short passing loop at Camperdown any better for freight either - that would cost extra. For the budget to modernise Camperdown loop and install a Claytons platform you could definitely put in a greenfields 1200m signalised loop at Boorcan.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The option of a new longer remote controlled loop with 900m standing room  (a duplicate of Warncoort is what is needed) just on the Up side of Camperdown between 193.5 and 195.0  kms would be the location to go for , as the track is level, no curves and the nearest level crossings are at 191.5 and 196.5 kms . So that is the ideal Camperdown location, away from the station . This would then give loop spacings of around 50 mins between Warncoort , Camperdown and Warrnambool .

At locations such as this crossing loops away from stations are the way to go as no second platforms and disability access issues . In the case of Camperdown the distance between the lx at the Up and down ends limits loop length to around 450m, and for future freight trains ideally 900m is required, and lx in middle of town crossing loops are a no/no.

NB:  VLP incorrectly state the available crossing length at Warncoort as 650m when in fact it is 900m available train length for crossing purposes . The distance between departure signals on both roads on each road is 650m which is irrelevant for crossing purposes . i:e: Opposing trains each up to 900m in length can enter the two roads and be in clear of the fouling points when pulled up at the Departure Home signals .  Warncoort Loop cost around $ 9m from scratch . It was designed to allow for the Warrnambool container trains up to 900m to both cross there overnight .  But that has never happened; the Down crosses the am Up Pass at  Camperdown, and the Up freight crosses the 1912 Down Pass at Warncoort .

With the new timetable the crosses beyond Geelong will be  :

Camperdown  0600 Up Pass with Dn Freight,   0905 Up Pass with 0720 Down Pass,  1713 Dn Pass with Up Freight
Warncoort  1912  Dn Pass with  Up freight
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

As mentioned above, close the Church Street crossing. Looking at a map there probably be more trains than cars through it. The maintenance savings would be greater than the cost of running a protected pedestrian crossing.
  NR1 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Warrnambool
With V/Line already tight on spare loco hauled carriages, where are they planning on getting the sets for the extra Warrnambool/ Shepparton services? Can I guess some inter urban services still see the odd N set? Which could therefore be replaced by the new order of v/locitys, if that's so...
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
With V/Line already tight on spare loco hauled carriages, where are they planning on getting the sets for the extra Warrnambool/ Shepparton services? Can I guess some inter urban services still see the odd N set? Which could therefore be replaced by the new order of v/locitys, if that's so...
NR1
There's a few N Sets that are used for Geelong Peak services which could be released.

V/Line dont mind running Shepparton trains as H Sets the whole way as I understand it, so probably more H Sets on the Seymour line in the future.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With V/Line already tight on spare loco hauled carriages, where are they planning on getting the sets for the extra Warrnambool/ Shepparton services? Can I guess some inter urban services still see the odd N set? Which could therefore be replaced by the new order of v/locitys, if that's so...
There's a few N Sets that are used for Geelong Peak services which could be released.

V/Line dont mind running Shepparton trains as H Sets the whole way as I understand it, so probably more H Sets on the Seymour line in the future.
TOQ-1
The utilization of the bg  N car sets is pretty slack and can be tightened up to cover the extra Warrnambool trip .  Also VL set 60 and later will be in service by then to cover loco hauled runs . Shepparton is to be an extension of  either the 1531  Dn or  1631  Dn  Seymour  so no extra set actually  required . (Dn Ety Cars Seymour - Shepp early am can be amex.) If 1631 Dn will just go through as loco hauled.  If 1531  then VLP would transpose the 3 Sprinters from the 1531 with the loco hauled on the 1631 . If Shepp runs as 1531 Down then the second Shepp Down goes to 1851 and that will be to do with having an available set to run that second Down Shepparton service . (Most likely the 1606 Up Shepp arriving 1835 then forming the 1851 Dn Shepparton.)

With the Warrnambool most likely  1713  Dn will be the 5N and the 1912 Down a 4N . In the morning the 0630 Up as the 5N and the new 0905 Up as the 4N  .  (0600 Up needs 5N from Geelong inwards.) Originally extra Weekday Warrnambool trips were to be Geelong - Warrnamboo only l, but now rightfully they are to go right through to/from Melbourne .

It is understood that some minor alterations and re-commissioning of existing roads in Warrnambool Yard is to be undertaken prior to the end of 2016  to allow two sets to be stabled overnight at Warrnambool .  Presumably similar arrangements are being made to stable two sets overnight at Shepparton .
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Current V/Locity order from the 2015 budget is 21 carriages (VL60-66).

On top of that there is an order from the 2016 budget of a further 27 carriages (VL67-75).

All to be delivered by mid 2018 confirmed by V/Line on social media.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Current V/Locity order from the 2015 budget is 21 carriages (VL60-66).

On top of that there is an order from the 2016 budget of a further 27 carriages (VL67-75).

All to be delivered by mid 2018 confirmed by V/Line on social media.
SamTheMan79

is this likely to be the final order for Vlocity stock or does Vline expect to place further orders to cover more demand?  I would like to see a replacement for the long distance services still loco hauled with the ability to add and remove cars as required.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Current V/Locity order from the 2015 budget is 21 carriages (VL60-66).

On top of that there is an order from the 2016 budget of a further 27 carriages (VL67-75).

All to be delivered by mid 2018 confirmed by V/Line on social media.

is this likely to be the final order for Vlocity stock or does Vline expect to place further orders to cover more demand?  I would like to see a replacement for the long distance services still loco hauled with the ability to add and remove cars as required.
bevans

I'd say yes, that would be the last V/Locity order.

The 2016 Budget announcement-



http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/more-tracks-and-trains-and-more-reliable-regional-rail/
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
New 1713 Warrnambool service was supposed to utilize the local Traralgon pass 1737 Down 0803 Up which ironic-lee has been a Vlocity since the accident at Larpent. This service will shunt at Warrnambool and then redock for the 0905 service.
1631 Seymour will run to Shepparton as H set and return empty cars, possible crossing 1822 Down service at Murchison East.
0631 Shepp to Sp St still formed by empty N set from Seymour.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Current V/Locity order from the 2015 budget is 21 carriages (VL60-66).

On top of that there is an order from the 2016 budget of a further 27 carriages (VL67-75).

All to be delivered by mid 2018 confirmed by V/Line on social media.

is this likely to be the final order for Vlocity stock or does Vline expect to place further orders to cover more demand?  I would like to see a replacement for the long distance services still loco hauled with the ability to add and remove cars as required.
bevans

Given that there will be a clear demand for locomotive hauled rolling stock for at least another 20 years, this is now an urgent issue.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Given that there will be a clear demand for locomotive hauled rolling stock for at least another 20 years, this is now an urgent issue.
Duncs

Completely agree.  A taskforce in V/Line should be established with representation from the public and other areas of the government including tourism etc which should then provide into into what the next generation of long distance loco hauled services should look like.  It should all be placed on the table including first and second class, dining, kiosk and club cars etc.  The focus should be moving the services into the 21 century not replacing what happens now.  The decisions should be the result of vision by interested parties.

Travelling should be a positive experience for long distance services on both BG and SG lines.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
It should all be placed on the table including first and second class, dining, kiosk and club cars etc.  
bevans
I think your expectations are far too high. I'd expect First and Economy Class, onboard wifi as a maybe, and charging points in the carriages. Maybe a buffet kiosk, maybe vending machines.

These trains run at a very large subsidy, no point also wasting capital on luxuries.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange

Given that there will be a clear demand for locomotive hauled rolling stock for at least another 20 years, this is now an urgent issue.
Completely agree.  A taskforce in V/Line should be established with representation from the public and other areas of the government including tourism etc which should then provide into into what the next generation of long distance loco hauled services should look like.  It should all be placed on the table including first and second class, dining, kiosk and club cars etc.  The focus should be moving the services into the 21 century not replacing what happens now.  The decisions should be the result of vision by interested parties.

Travelling should be a positive experience for long distance services on both BG and SG lines.
bevans
There is no real need to have first-class trains sets in Victoria.
Over a past number of years, first-class trains have been phased out.
The main aim for Transport for Victoria is to get larger amount people from point a  to point b.

Transport for Victoria should be looking at the following:
  • The condition of the railway tracks : Category one tracks as the minimum standard and which trains can run at run at the maximum speed of 250km/HR.
  • Electrification of railway lines of the following lines: Geelong, Bendigo, Gippsland and Ballarat lines with new rolling stock.
  • Then the existing stock from these lines can be used for long distance train journeys such as for the Albury services.
  • An introduced of a cafe carriage could be good for longer train trips.
  ewok111 Beginner

40 minute frequency is not happening on the Geelong line in January 17 but should be happening in a later changer in 17.  As far as I know the Warrnambool services will continue to Melbourne and not change at Geelong.  It was discussed but I don't think it will be happening.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

40 minute frequency is not happening on the Geelong line in January 17 but should be happening in a later changer in 17.  As far as I know the Warrnambool services will continue to Melbourne and not change at Geelong.  It was discussed but I don't think it will be happening.
ewok111
It has been announced  :

1.  12 extra one way Warrnambool trips each week  :
Weekdays  0905  Up and  1713 Down, Sundays  all now as through trains  Warrnambool - Melbourne.
Sundays  1130 Up and  1300  Down
2. Geelong    28 extra evening trips over 7 days +  26 extra day time trips on Weekends giving a 40 minute frequency between 0700 & 1900 on Weekends.

Warrnambool + 12  Evening Geelong +  28  Weekend daytime Geelong +  24  =  64  extra one way trips .

Evening Geelong  28 / 7 =  4 trips per evening .  So expect  after 1900 on all nights to go to 40 minutes till 2300 hrs .
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Warrnambools  and weekly night extra services (on all tracks) are correct but extra weekend services to Geelong probably wont happen until mid 2017 due to driver shortage.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Warrnambools  and weekly night extra services (on all tracks) are correct but extra weekend services to Geelong probably wont happen until mid 2017 due to driver shortage.
gomer
Crazy.... Another fine example of lack of foresight by those within Government, PTV and V/Line.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Warrnambools  and weekly night extra services (on all tracks) are correct but extra weekend services to Geelong probably wont happen until mid 2017 due to driver shortage.
gomer
I you are correct another damning endightment on VLP senior management in recommending extra services but not having planned and acquired / trained adequate staff resources to run them in time .  Another failure no doubt we can thank to VLP management along with the V/locity wheelwear , lx activation issues, Z car bogie replacement fiasco .  What a pedigree .

Meanwhile we still wait for a new fulltime VLP CEO after 8 months, and the VLP Board to recommend a new EFFECTIVE senior management structure for VLP.  The Minister has the patience of a Saint  !!!!

The extra VLP Weekend 40 min daytime frequency needs to be in place before the start of the 2017 AFL season on the Geelong Line as some 6 car sets were reported to be carrying over 900 pax on a consist designed for a maximum loading 600 with standees .
  712M Chief Commissioner

In the interim is there a possibility of lengthening these trains to 9 cars? With the rear 3 cars for Tarneit/Wyndham passengers only.

The platforms are already there and plenty of rollingstock sitting idle on weekends.

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