Newcastle Rail Line: Announcements

 
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

The government has gone to all this money and effort not so they can sell of the land, but rather so some of their biggest political donors can buy the land.  

In 10 years time the hieght limit will likely be more than it is now.

While the light rail idea and getting rid of heavy rail has both its pros and cons. (Personally think massive corrupt mistake)
It is the manner in which they have closed it that is alarming.
tazzer96
Which political donors? Developers are excluded from donating to political parties in NSW. McCloy donated $10,000 and got found out. Do you really think they would spend $500 million for donations which would be illegal in any case? These hasn't been that much money donated to political parties in all of Australia in a decade and you really think developers would do it for less than 1 hectare of land in Newcastle. That doesn't stack up.

Which part of closing it was alarming?

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  Northern Flyer Train Controller

The rep of Urban Growth said that they want to use 1,500 metres of the corridor, ie 60% of it.
And he just recycled a video that shows buildings of 8 to 9 stories high. Funny how these heights are lower than the current land grab height.

A video by NCC planner showed a video where Newcastle Station is, would have a DEVELOPMENT height limit of about 10 to 15 metre" zone" above the station, "after'" being brought down from "20 metres".

Live blog about rezoning: https://twitter.com/Brodie_Owen/with_replies
Newcastle Express
"Land grab height" means what other than throwing in some emotive language. The only place with 8 to 9 stories is between buildings at the western end that already have a 30m height limit. That is the land being used by the uni. By the time you get to better quality land east of Perkins Street (the only land not wedged between buildings) the height is ZERO. It's public space.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

If a rejuvenated city like that will be so packed they should put in a rail line, its the only way to move so many people.
Junction box
So packed?? It, at best, will be medium density. Why would you cut off all the connectivity in the city to extend the railway 2km for the sake of a handful of passengers. The lines into Newcastle serve very few suburbs, hence the very low passenger numbers.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Then riddle me this, why are they putting up such a fight to run the trams down Hunter Street when a perfectly good, and apparently worthless as you say, tract of land is sitting there purposedly designed for the tracks?
Showtime
Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
  coit Locomotive Driver

Location: Weston,NSW
If a rejuvenated city like that will be so packed they should put in a rail line, its the only way to move so many people.
So packed?? It, at best, will be medium density. Why would you cut off all the connectivity in the city to extend the railway 2km for the sake of a handful of passengers. The lines into Newcastle serve very few suburbs, hence the very low passenger numbers.
Northern Flyer
If we still had the Toronto and Belmont and more importantly, the Wallsend line via the university and Jesmond, maybe some serious suburb service would be achieved. Raspberry Gully could have served Charlestown, also Cessnock line. New estates everywhere and no public transport planning. We always wait till it's incredibly expensive to supply fixed infrastructure.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
Northern Flyer
Oh!  I thought the latest proposal is to open up the old rail corridor for development creating a wall of high rise buildings, which would cut off the city from the waterfront as much as the truncated rail line, but without the views.  You can't have it both ways.  

Running trams down Hunter St will remove a significant amount of street parking and is hardly conducive to increased retail trade, as it has now belatedly dawned upon many retailers.

Whether the light rail line runs along the existing corridor or along Hunter St, it cannot possibly be an economic proposition without massive subsidies, which the private operator will milk to the fullest extent.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Then riddle me this, why are they putting up such a fight to run the trams down Hunter Street when a perfectly good, and apparently worthless as you say, tract of land is sitting there purposedly designed for the tracks?
Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
Northern Flyer
That does not hold water.
The city has had buses literally in front of shops and businesses for decades (even free ones) with ten times as many stops as the light rail will have and this has not stopped Hunter St from carking it.
There is smoking gun somewhere as it makes no sense to abandon an existing dedicated corridor in search of a non existant one 10 metres away at the expense of parking and traffic management.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
Oh!  I thought the latest proposal is to open up the old rail corridor for development creating a wall of high rise buildings, which would cut off the city from the waterfront as much as the truncated rail line, but without the views.  You can't have it both ways.  

Running trams down Hunter St will remove a significant amount of street parking and is hardly conducive to increased retail trade, as it has now belatedly dawned upon many retailers.

Whether the light rail line runs along the existing corridor or along Hunter St, it cannot possibly be an economic proposition without massive subsidies, which the private operator will milk to the fullest extent.
Transtopic
All the retailers on the gold coast were very opposed to the light rail before and during its construction but now can't stop going on about how great it is.  It has massivly increased trade because people are walking past the shops, not driving past them and parking elsewhere
  tezza Chief Commissioner

The rep of Urban Growth said that they want to use 1,500 metres of the corridor, ie 60% of it.
And he just recycled a video that shows buildings of 8 to 9 stories high. Funny how these heights are lower than the current land grab height.

A video by NCC planner showed a video where Newcastle Station is, would have a DEVELOPMENT height limit of about 10 to 15 metre" zone" above the station, "after'" being brought down from "20 metres".

Live blog about rezoning: https://twitter.com/Brodie_Owen/with_replies

                                 -----------------------------------------------------

Well what a coincidence, the 1500 metres Urban growth want to use of the corridor just happens to be the distance from Worth Place to the buffers at Newcastle station. What you now need to mention is the amount of land that is allocated for other uses such as the University, open public space, roads, pedestrian crossings etc, start with;

- Worth Place to Civic Square allocated for University, 300 metres
- Civic Square (open public space)
- Merewether Street (existing road)
- Darby Street Square (open public space)
- Light rail transformer building (on corridor next to carpark)
- pedestrian crossing to Wharf Road at Crown street
- Pedestrian Crossing to Wharf Road at Brown Street
- Pedestrian crossing to Wharf Road at Perkins Street
- North/South road connection at Wolfe Street
- Market square Lawn (public open space, now extending from west of Perkins Street to east of Newcomen Street)
- Newcastle Railway Station (restored and repurposed)

When this corridor land use is taken into account we have one small block available west of Merewether Street between buildings and about a 400 metre section between buildings east of Merewether Street to near Perkins Street for development.

Out of the 2700 metre long corridor closed by Act of Parliament from Railway Street Wickham to Newcastle Station approximately 500m is being reused for building, way less than 60%

This area of corridor is also undermined and Keller Mine Void Engineering will be progressively working along the corridor when needed over the next couple of years



Newcastle Express
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Get buildings up on the old train line quick smart, the bigger the better. That way it makes it too hard for trains to ever return to Newcastle no matter how much sense it makes.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Trains return to Newcastle in March following the completion of the Newcastle Interchange, just before the NewSpace University opens. Trains currently terminate temporarily  at the Newcastle suburb of Hamilton

While we're at it, let's run heavy rail along the Darling Harbour foreshore from Central to Circular Quay,fences and all. Might as well throw in a dozen level crossings with boom gates to go with it
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Trains return to Newcastle in March following the completion of the Newcastle Interchange, just before the NewSpace University opens. Trains currently terminate temporarily  at the Newcastle suburb of Hamilton

While we're at it, let's run heavy rail along the Darling Harbour foreshore from Central to Circular Quay,fences and all. Might as well throw in a dozen level crossings with boom gates to go with it
tezza
The trains will only be terminating about 1km away from where they are now.   Not much of an improvement.
The example you gave literally happens with the current light rail on the former metropolitan goods lines and will happen with the new light rail.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Trains return to Newcastle in March following the completion of the Newcastle Interchange, just before the NewSpace University opens. Trains currently terminate temporarily  at the Newcastle suburb of Hamilton

While we're at it, let's run heavy rail along the Darling Harbour foreshore from Central to Circular Quay,fences and all. Might as well throw in a dozen level crossings with boom gates to go with it
The trains will only be terminating about 1km away from where they are now.   Not much of an improvement.
The example you gave literally happens with the current light rail on the former metropolitan goods lines and will happen with the new light rail.
tazzer96
When the trains terminate at Wickham, you will already be on Hunter Street, Newcastle's main street. Wickham was growing when it closed and was busier than Newcastle Station in the am peak. I think you will find that it will make a huge difference to the number of people who will need to use the shuttle bus.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Get buildings up on the old train line quick smart, the bigger the better. That way it makes it too hard for trains to ever return to Newcastle no matter how much sense it makes.
Lockspike
Trains will be blocked by the new interchange, 1km of Light Rail, around a dozen pedestrian walkways and 500m of green space. Trains will never be coming back. They don't need to out any more buildings on it for that piece of reality.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Then riddle me this, why are they putting up such a fight to run the trams down Hunter Street when a perfectly good, and apparently worthless as you say, tract of land is sitting there purposedly designed for the tracks?
Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
That does not hold water.
The city has had buses literally in front of shops and businesses for decades (even free ones) with ten times as many stops as the light rail will have and this has not stopped Hunter St from carking it.
There is smoking gun somewhere as it makes no sense to abandon an existing dedicated corridor in search of a non existant one 10 metres away at the expense of parking and traffic management.
Showtime
If you are a train buff it probably doesn't hold water. If you are a urban renewal expert it makes a lot of sense. During the public consultation of the light rail route over half of the submissions favored the Hunter Street route.

So what is this smoking gun? An ICAC inquiry, a upper house inquiry has found nothing even though ICAC looked at all the phone messages of the former Mayor and Liberal MP. Nothing was found on the railway line. NOTHING, not a sausage.

Can you explain what somebody is getting out of it? We now know that only 0,8 hectares of mid range land is being sold. Maybe $8 million worth. So it can't be the land value which is about 2% of the amount being spent.

Over to you for a theory.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Trains return to Newcastle in March following the completion of the Newcastle Interchange, just before the NewSpace University opens. Trains currently terminate temporarily  at the Newcastle suburb of Hamilton

While we're at it, let's run heavy rail along the Darling Harbour foreshore from Central to Circular Quay,fences and all. Might as well throw in a dozen level crossings with boom gates to go with it
tezza
I vote for the old AA railways through Civic Park, Cooks Hill and The Junction. Who needs parks, cycleways and footpaths when you can have heavy rail.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Get buildings up on the old train line quick smart, the bigger the better. That way it makes it too hard for trains to ever return to Newcastle no matter how much sense it makes.
Trains will be blocked by the new interchange, 1km of Light Rail, around a dozen pedestrian walkways and 500m of green space. Trains will never be coming back. They don't need to out any more buildings on it for that piece of reality.
Northern Flyer
Whatever, just get it done fast!
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The light rail wouldn't be bad if it was part of a larger network, or along a very dense corridor like adelaide or the gold coast. (yes it is dense, but its only 2km long)
But its looking like that even if the light rail is built, it will be so small it won't be of much use and only be for transfers.  

As i have said earlier, Both light rail and heavy rail have their pro's and cons.  But the heavy rail shouldn't have been ripped up before the light rail plan was finalised and construction ready to commence.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Then riddle me this, why are they putting up such a fight to run the trams down Hunter Street when a perfectly good, and apparently worthless as you say, tract of land is sitting there purposedly designed for the tracks?
Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
That does not hold water.
The city has had buses literally in front of shops and businesses for decades (even free ones) with ten times as many stops as the light rail will have and this has not stopped Hunter St from carking it.
There is smoking gun somewhere as it makes no sense to abandon an existing dedicated corridor in search of a non existant one 10 metres away at the expense of parking and traffic management.
If you are a train buff it probably doesn't hold water. If you are a urban renewal expert it makes a lot of sense. During the public consultation of the light rail route over half of the submissions favored the Hunter Street route.

So what is this smoking gun? An ICAC inquiry, a upper house inquiry has found nothing even though ICAC looked at all the phone messages of the former Mayor and Liberal MP. Nothing was found on the railway line. NOTHING, not a sausage.

Can you explain what somebody is getting out of it? We now know that only 0,8 hectares of mid range land is being sold. Maybe $8 million worth. So it can't be the land value which is about 2% of the amount being spent.

Over to you for a theory.
Northern Flyer
How about this for a theory
The State government under Baird is incompetent and couldn't dig a hole without cocking it up.
They have made a very bad decision, one of many, and whilst the Dog Racing and Shark nets will cost them seats so they backflipped, they wont backflip on this one as they will never win the seat of Newcastle anyway.
It's just an example of poor government and nothing more than we can expect from either side as nothing proposed or managed by bureaucrats ever evolves to be a shining success.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Then riddle me this, why are they putting up such a fight to run the trams down Hunter Street when a perfectly good, and apparently worthless as you say, tract of land is sitting there purposedly designed for the tracks?
Because having the trams in front of shops and businesses will help to activate Hunter Street and open up the old corridor for public spaces to connect the city to the waterfront. Put it down the old corridor and it is hidden away and wipes out all the public space bewteen the old station and Perkins Street. Transport is just one of many considerations.
That does not hold water.
The city has had buses literally in front of shops and businesses for decades (even free ones) with ten times as many stops as the light rail will have and this has not stopped Hunter St from carking it.
There is smoking gun somewhere as it makes no sense to abandon an existing dedicated corridor in search of a non existant one 10 metres away at the expense of parking and traffic management.
If you are a train buff it probably doesn't hold water. If you are a urban renewal expert it makes a lot of sense. During the public consultation of the light rail route over half of the submissions favored the Hunter Street route.

So what is this smoking gun? An ICAC inquiry, a upper house inquiry has found nothing even though ICAC looked at all the phone messages of the former Mayor and Liberal MP. Nothing was found on the railway line. NOTHING, not a sausage.

Can you explain what somebody is getting out of it? We now know that only 0,8 hectares of mid range land is being sold. Maybe $8 million worth. So it can't be the land value which is about 2% of the amount being spent.

Over to you for a theory.
How about this for a theory
The State government under Baird is incompetent and couldn't dig a hole without cocking it up.
They have made a very bad decision, one of many, and whilst the Dog Racing and Shark nets will cost them seats so they backflipped, they wont backflip on this one as they will never win the seat of Newcastle anyway.
It's just an example of poor government and nothing more than we can expect from either side as nothing proposed or managed by bureaucrats ever evolves to be a shining success.
Showtime
OK, so when all the conspiracy theories have been disproved, all that is left is to say you don't like the government. No actual reason, you just don't like them.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

The light rail wouldn't be bad if it was part of a larger network, or along a very dense corridor like adelaide or the gold coast. (yes it is dense, but its only 2km long)
But its looking like that even if the light rail is built, it will be so small it won't be of much use and only be for transfers.  

As i have said earlier, Both light rail and heavy rail have their pro's and cons.  But the heavy rail shouldn't have been ripped up before the light rail plan was finalised and construction ready to commence.
tazzer96
Truncation occurred in December 2013. A court case stalled progress for 12 months. Final light rail route was determined in May 2014. The removal of heavy rail has only just been completed thanks to the court case. The contract for construction of Light Rail was awarded a few months back and will start in the next month or so.

Care to explain what should have been done?
  tezza Chief Commissioner

http://tinyurl.com/zoocgn6
Newcastle Express
how is this relevent today? it is not a Property Council of Australia Hunter Division project and never was, it was formerly the Hunter Development Corporation's (HDC) project who were removed,. Urban Growth now manage it.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

At the end of the day, this whole project is flawed and pointless, which means it must have been dreamed up by bureaucrats and politicians ie people who don't live in the real world.

There can be no logical reason why you would rip out a functioning rail system that had it's entire infrastructure in place and was capable of delivering people right into the CBD from both the North and South coasts and then waste tens of millions of dollars to replace it with a disfunctional rail system that will cause traffic chaos and parking nightmares in the CBD as well as around it's terminus.

This waste of money includes construction of new lines, manufacturing of new rolling stock, construction of new terminals, rebuilding of roads, training of new staff and operators, not to mention the disruption to businesses in Hunter Street while all this goes on.

A sane man would never have dreamed up this fiasco but there are plenty on here that defend it so hello to all you in the asylum.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
What should of been done is the line should not of been closed until work was ready to start.
What politician has the balls to come out and say heavy rail should not have been removed as the revitalisation of the East end will require a high capacity people mover with pram, luggage, bicycle and surfboard capability.

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