V/Line to squeeze Albury assets to boost reliability

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 19 Oct 2016 14:36
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
130 of the 330 seats being occupied?


Allan says the operator can get away with this because, on average, just 130 of the 330 seats on each Albury service is occupied.
News Item

if this is true the passenger numbers may have fallen away.


V/Line to squeeze Albury assets to boost reliability

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  Carnot Chief Commissioner

130 of the 330 seats being occupied?


Allan says the operator can get away with this because, on average, just 130 of the 330 seats on each Albury service is occupied.

if this is true the passenger numbers may have fallen away.


V/Line to squeeze Albury assets to boost reliability
bevans
Of course, when you run a service that is simply so unreliable, numbers will fall.  If the price of petrol skyrockets again, that might bring a few people back on-board.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
130 of the 330 seats being occupied?


Allan says the operator can get away with this because, on average, just 130 of the 330 seats on each Albury service is occupied.

if this is true the passenger numbers may have fallen away.


V/Line to squeeze Albury assets to boost reliability
Of course, when you run a service that is simply so unreliable, numbers will fall.  If the price of petrol skyrockets again, that might bring a few people back on-board.
Carnot

With a spare set available reliability issues will reduce therefore increasing overall service delivery...however the condition of the track on the NE...is another story altogether.

Mike.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A couple of points, the Albury train is currently 5 cars and a power van NOT 4 a stated in the article.

The track is now not to bad and there is a good chance the rain will be close to time.

As already mentioned the service has been seriously unreliable which is almost certainly why the passenger numbers are down. I no longer travel on it as one simply cannot rely on running at all.

As I have already mentioned in other posts the VLIne management have had no answers for any questions on the NE lines problems, I have little faith in anything they say, they appear to simply have NO IDEA on how to run a SG passenger service.

If the above article is any indication of VLines hold on the Albury line issue then god help us.

woodford
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

130 of the 330 seats being occupied?


Allan says the operator can get away with this because, on average, just 130 of the 330 seats on each Albury service is occupied.

if this is true the passenger numbers may have fallen away.


V/Line to squeeze Albury assets to boost reliability
bevans
Anyone know what the patronage for the XPT along the albury-Melbourne section for comparison.  The ticket price might be a bit higher but the faster service would offset that.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
A couple of points, the Albury train is currently 5 cars and a power van NOT 4 a stated in the article.

The track is now not too bad and there is a good chance the rain will be close to time.

If the above article is any indication of VLines hold on the Albury line issue then god help us.

woodford
woodford

I've been looking for an opportunity to post some brief feedback on a recent XPT daylight & overnight trip to/from Sydney 2 weeks ago.

Woodford, sorry man, despite reassurances from those you speak/spoke to who did the latest maintenance on the NE...the NE line rides like cr@p.

The XPT from Broadford and right through to Albury on both East and West lines the train when attempting to travel at its correct speed of 130KPH, but usually less, pitched and swayed like a drunken sailor over several extensively long sections and often it was almost impossible to walk through the cars due to the rocking and swaying.

Travelling north after Albury, the track improves remarkably and the train can hold 160KPH with minimal swaying.

How the NE track is now after all this recent rain...who knows...

Mike.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A couple of points, the Albury train is currently 5 cars and a power van NOT 4 a stated in the article.

The track is now not too bad and there is a good chance the rain will be close to time.

If the above article is any indication of VLines hold on the Albury line issue then god help us.

woodford

I've been looking for an opportunity to post some brief feedback on a recent XPT daylight & overnight trip to/from Sydney 2 weeks ago.

Woodford, sorry man, despite reassurances from those you speak/spoke to who did the latest maintenance on the NE...the NE line rides like cr@p.

The XPT from Broadford and right through to Albury on both East and West lines the train when attempting to travel at its correct speed of 130KPH, but usually less, pitched and swayed like a drunken sailor over several extensively long sections and often it was almost impossible to walk through the cars due to the rocking and swaying.

Travelling north after Albury, the track improves remarkably and the train can hold 160KPH with minimal swaying.

How the NE track is now after all this recent rain...who knows...

Mike.
The Vinelander
There are some sections that are not as good as they could be, one of these is the East line between Winton and Benalla, but there are no  very long sections of poor track. Both lines vary in how they travel, one must remember the line is basicly a freight line (carrying some VERY heavy trains) with a few passes on it and inspite of what you may think work is on going on the line.

A last point I have no hesitation one walking down the cars (VLine N sets) and it is quite rare to be thrown around. I do not know about the current state of the XPT sets, but I was surprised at the great difference on ride quality between the N sets and the Sprinters (Note 1), the latters ride being MUCH better.

Note 1: I regularly transfer to the local pass at Seymour on the way down to Melbourne, so one gets a taste of both sets in quick sucession.

woodford
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Both ARTC sg tracks are supposed to be maintained by ARTC to Class - 2 standard suitable for 115kmh for loco hauled pass and 130 kmh for  XPT .  Freight wise as axle loads increase the speed lowers from 115kmh to 80 kmh .
So the line is supposed to be maintained to those standards, unfortunately it is still afflicted with too many speed restrictions for all the reasons previously outlined here including poor drainage, fouled ballast etc .
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Benalla, VIC
I can't see this move being very popular for travelers on the NE line - a very long crowded trip on the busier trips of the week (such as morning Up services and evening Down services especially on weekends and holidays/major events, and midday Up and Down on Saturday and Sunday respectively).

Now whenever having to travel to the area I drive exclusively due to the crowding more so than the unreliability - and that's even before the carriage removal.

EDIT: I read a post above querying how busy the XPT was in the NE Vic section of the journey. I find it seems to be busier on overnight trips while not as many travelers during the day. The Saturday evening ex Melbourne seems to be the busiest by far with many journeys being completely full in Economy and First Class for much of the Victorian part of the journey.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I can't see this move being very popular for travelers on the NE line - a very long crowded trip on the busier trips of the week (such as morning Up services and evening Down services especially on weekends and holidays/major events, and midday Up and Down on Saturday and Sunday respectively).

Now whenever having to travel to the area I drive exclusively due to the crowding more so than the unreliability - and that's even before the carriage removal.

EDIT: I read a post above querying how busy the XPT was in the NE Vic section of the journey. I find it seems to be busier on overnight trips while not as many travelers during the day. The Saturday evening ex Melbourne seems to be the busiest by far with many journeys being completely full in Economy and First Class for much of the Victorian part of the journey.
Contrillion
A couple of points..........

First When have VLine taken any notice of what passengers in the NE have though, the first thing this new CEO needs to understand is VLine DOES have a SG passenger service, this is something the current management does not appear to understand.

Second point, Kuldalai and Trainplanner can shoot me down if required, from what was said in the past of what they were going to do was create a 4th set by taking one car from each of the existing sets add another car and a power van and make up 4 4car sets and use the extra set for another service. This would have likely been a reasonable idea. It sounds like now this has been cut down to 3 car sets, that would make 5 3 car sets from the existing 3 5 car sets. If this is the case VLine is completely INSANE, where in the hell is VLine getting its information from it certainly can not be from the Albury line services.

Now these people,are not stupid but they certainly giving a real excellent simulation of being stupid, what do they think they are doing!

woodford
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I can't see this move being very popular for travelers on the NE line - a very long crowded trip on the busier trips of the week (such as morning Up services and evening Down services especially on weekends and holidays/major events, and midday Up and Down on Saturday and Sunday respectively).

Now whenever having to travel to the area I drive exclusively due to the crowding more so than the unreliability - and that's even before the carriage removal.

EDIT: I read a post above querying how busy the XPT was in the NE Vic section of the journey. I find it seems to be busier on overnight trips while not as many travelers during the day. The Saturday evening ex Melbourne seems to be the busiest by far with many journeys being completely full in Economy and First Class for much of the Victorian part of the journey.
A couple of points..........

First When have VLine taken any notice of what passengers in the NE have though, the first thing this new CEO needs to understand is VLine DOES have a SG passenger service, this is something the current management does not appear to understand.

Second point, Kuldalai and Trainplanner can shoot me down if required, from what was said in the past of what they were going to do was create a 4th set by taking one car from each of the existing sets add another car and a power van and make up 4 4car sets and use the extra set for another service. This would have likely been a reasonable idea. It sounds like now this has been cut down to 3 car sets, that would make 5 3 car sets from the existing 3 5 car sets. If this is the case VLine is completely INSANE, where in the hell is VLine getting its information from it certainly can not be from the Albury line services.

Now these people,are not stupid but they certainly giving a real excellent simulation of being stupid, what do they think they are doing!

woodford
woodford
Confirming currently 3 x 5 car sets running 3 return trips Weekdays which can be done with two sets if the rolingstock is maintained properly.

So 15 existing carriages + 1  ACN ex  bg are being re configured to 4 x 4 car sg sets, plus a fourth powervan is being created unbelievably from a former SA sleeping car .

That gives two sets to run 3 return trips and two sets spare, or  3 sets to run 4 return trips and one set spare. Extra trips would be an 0900  Up and 1530 ish  Down .
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks Kuldalai.  I was waiting for you to outline the actual consist configuration before commenting back to woodford.   This might sound bleedingly obvious but I don't think the message is really getting through to people making the decisions around this.

YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE SPARE SETS IN THE WORLD BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PROACTIVE AND PREVENTATIVE BASED MAINTENANCE REGIME BACKED UP WITH VERY TIGHT CONTRACT MANAGEMENT YOU"LL STILL RUN OUT OF TRAINS.

I won't labour the point too heavily in this thread but if you want to to refer to the NE Standardisation thread you can volumes of posts related to all the issues that have contributed to the very poor service offering on the Albury line which not that long ago was the flagship corridor in terms of patronage and reliability.

V/Line's new CEO has an extensive maintenance and asset management background as I understand it and I sincerely hope amongst his many challenges that there is a strong focus on the reliability and performance of both the fleet and assets.

The maintenance regime for the standard gauge sets was based on engaging a "flying" gang to service the fleet and there were numerous instances of car faults not being attended to with the standby set then being required only to discover that it too was defective because of defects not being rectified.   No point in having standby sets sitting in a $20 million depot if they are not attended to immediately.   These sets prior to development of this 4th consist ran only modest kilometres and equally significantly the hours of availability for maintenance is huge compared to many other passenger operations details of which are in the NE thread.

It will be extremely embarrassing if trains continue to be defected because of the basic fundementals around maintenance and disciplined approach to operations are not addressed.

Turning to seating capacity, V/line and the department of the day did an enormous amount of patronage forecasting that determined set configuration and capacity.   IF patronage rebounds brought about by a more reliable service then there will be flack about capacity even though that's not a concern just now.

At the current time there are no immediate proposals to operate the 4th daily service.   After spending $15 million "refreshing" the fleet and developing the 4th consist I'd be relaunching the service with the additional daily trip to demonstrate that there is a serious commitment to significantly address the poor service offering over the past 6 years.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Many thanks for the information.

Still 4 car sets, at least they have a spare spare, ie when one is undergoing work there is STILL a spare set, 4 car sets though Sad.

Back in the bad old days when the line was BG, one fridays to sunday it was not uncommon to find less than 20 or 30 seats availible after Benalla on the morning service to Melbourne, particularly during the football season. On weekday services one would generally find all the forward facing seats taken in the unreserved car (car E) by Benalla, for a tall person this was I may say real bad news due to the lack of leg room in the 2nd class cars. I did not class the evening services back home to be a problem as long as one was on the platform early, when one had clear choice of seat and could take one of the few seats that had a decent amount of leg room.

Where VLine got 130 passengers on a train I wonder, perhaps they should look back to the days when the service was half decent.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Thanks Kuldalai.  I was waiting for you to outline the actual consist configuration before commenting back to woodford.   This might sound bleedingly obvious but I don't think the message is really getting through to people making the decisions around this.

YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE SPARE SETS IN THE WORLD BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PROACTIVE AND PREVENTATIVE BASED MAINTENANCE REGIME BACKED UP WITH VERY TIGHT CONTRACT MANAGEMENT YOU"LL STILL RUN OUT OF TRAINS.

I won't labour the point too heavily in this thread but if you want to to refer to the NE Standardisation thread you can volumes of posts related to all the issues that have contributed to the very poor service offering on the Albury line which not that long ago was the flagship corridor in terms of patronage and reliability.

V/Line's new CEO has an extensive maintenance and asset management background as I understand it and I sincerely hope amongst his many challenges that there is a strong focus on the reliability and performance of both the fleet and assets.

The maintenance regime for the standard gauge sets was based on engaging a "flying" gang to service the fleet and there were numerous instances of car faults not being attended to with the standby set then being required only to discover that it too was defective because of defects not being rectified.   No point in having standby sets sitting in a $20 million depot if they are not attended to immediately.   These sets prior to development of this 4th consist ran only modest kilometres and equally significantly the hours of availability for maintenance is huge compared to many other passenger operations details of which are in the NE thread.

It will be extremely embarrassing if trains continue to be defected because of the basic fundementals around maintenance and disciplined approach to operations are not addressed.

Turning to seating capacity, V/line and the department of the day did an enormous amount of patronage forecasting that determined set configuration and capacity.   IF patronage rebounds brought about by a more reliable service then there will be flack about capacity even though that's not a concern just now.

At the current time there are no immediate proposals to operate the 4th daily service.   After spending $15 million "refreshing" the fleet and developing the 4th consist I'd be relaunching the service with the additional daily trip to demonstrate that there is a serious commitment to significantly address the poor service offering over the past 6 years.
Trainplanner
1. Currently as 5 car sets they are  PCJ,ACN,BRN,BN, BDN,BN x 3 sets .  As 4 car sets they will be  PCJ,ACN,BRN,BDN,BN.

2. Agree with 4 x 4 car sets properly rotated and  maintained a 4th  return trip should be offered on Weekdays.
With correct rotation two sets will be available overnight in Melbourne for PPM, one set in Melb daylight from 0700 to early evening, and  a second set in Melbourne from midday to 1500 ish .

3. V/Line could help itself with reliability with such low tech solutions like internal patio bolts (fitted with a common keyed lock) on all internal doors of N/Z cars .  Then when you get a defective door, you secure it shut with the patio bolt, but the train can still run; instead of the current nonsense of a whole train being cancelled because of one defective door . (H cars are all fitted with emergency manual locks so that one set of defective doors does not immobilize a whole train -  VLP never learns : its NOT rocket science  !!!)  

4. Also VLP use the HEP all wrong on the North East .  One should use the HEP from the loco in one direction, and the HEP from the PCJ in the other .  By using both  HEP sources on a regular basis the HEP operation is proven to be more reliable.  Use the HEP only on the loco and when you go to use the PCJ the operation will not be reliable, use the PCJ as the HEP source full time and when you fire up the HEP on the N class you will get problems .

5. VLP cannot think outside the square, why spare sets why not spare carriages or a mix of both .  In days gone by Vicrail had spare carriages by rotation for the bg country services and the sg  Spirit of Progress  (SOP)  in addition several Z cars were modified to be able to run on either gauge at short notice by a simple change of bogies.

6. It would help sg reliability  immensely if short time/immediate sg repairs could be done at CMD and this is easily achieved by providing third rail access from the adjacent running line into a couple of roads at CMD .

7.  VLP management basically hate their standard gauge train set, and regard it as a distraction, secondly as Albury is an Inter City service and VLP regards all longer distance pax as a nuisance,  just look at the current dumbed down slower services with lots of extra stops .  What most at VLP management would like is for Inter City to go away so they can just play with their brand new V/Locity broad gauge train set in 3 or 6 car consists running stopping all station services on clockwork timetables on the 5 Inter urban corridors .
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks kuldalai.  I have long been a proponent of having two business units under the V/Line brand.   One is for regional commuting/interurban and the second for longer distance/intercity.   Yes people use Intercity services as part of the regional commuting mix but even so a separate business unit can properly develop its service offering, maintenance and other strategies tailor made to the unique needs of long distance travel.

There is even with the N/Z cars and N class locos plenty of opportunity to bring these services back up to standard in terms of fleet reliability, fleet presentation, on-board services and timetabling and other initiatives at relatively modest cost whilst the next generation of trains are under development.  The UK and other places have done this superbly well and very cost effectively.    Amtrak's Hoosier State Train is a state/Federal Government funded service that last year was subcontracted out to Iowa Pacific Railroad.   It uses thoroughly refurbished 60 plus year old passenger cars and locos of similar age to the N locos.

revenue has increased dramatically because of a focus of improved on-board catering, very high standards of cleaniness etc, etc.

It is a demonstration of what can be done even under the more vanilla Amtrak environment.   V/line wants to make everything dumbed down to be the same.   The north-east, Bairnsdale, Warrnambool etc services could be significantly improved through attention to detail if managed by an InterCity business unit.  It doesn't preclude regional commuters using those trains but making the likes of some Bairnsdale and Shepparton trains all stops trips demonstrates to me that there is either no understanding or no desire to want deliver services better tailored to long distance travelers.   As an example the afternoon service from Bairnsdale stopping all stops to Melbourne has passengers joing it who have already travelled several hours by connecting road coach.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Let's not forget the 6 or so press releases about how Wifi is coming to the V/Line service fleet.  Not.

We need a Richard Branson to re-birth V/Line and quickly.  Too many people too comfortable doing very little.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Thanks Kuldalai.  I was waiting for you to outline the actual consist configuration before commenting back to woodford.   This might sound bleedingly obvious but I don't think the message is really getting through to people making the decisions around this.

YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE SPARE SETS IN THE WORLD BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PROACTIVE AND PREVENTATIVE BASED MAINTENANCE REGIME BACKED UP WITH VERY TIGHT CONTRACT MANAGEMENT YOU"LL STILL RUN OUT OF TRAINS.

I won't labour the point too heavily in this thread but if you want to to refer to the NE Standardisation thread you can volumes of posts related to all the issues that have contributed to the very poor service offering on the Albury line which not that long ago was the flagship corridor in terms of patronage and reliability.

V/Line's new CEO has an extensive maintenance and asset management background as I understand it and I sincerely hope amongst his many challenges that there is a strong focus on the reliability and performance of both the fleet and assets.

The maintenance regime for the standard gauge sets was based on engaging a "flying" gang to service the fleet and there were numerous instances of car faults not being attended to with the standby set then being required only to discover that it too was defective because of defects not being rectified.   No point in having standby sets sitting in a $20 million depot if they are not attended to immediately.   These sets prior to development of this 4th consist ran only modest kilometres and equally significantly the hours of availability for maintenance is huge compared to many other passenger operations details of which are in the NE thread.

It will be extremely embarrassing if trains continue to be defected because of the basic fundementals around maintenance and disciplined approach to operations are not addressed.

Turning to seating capacity, V/line and the department of the day did an enormous amount of patronage forecasting that determined set configuration and capacity.   IF patronage rebounds brought about by a more reliable service then there will be flack about capacity even though that's not a concern just now.

At the current time there are no immediate proposals to operate the 4th daily service.   After spending $15 million "refreshing" the fleet and developing the 4th consist I'd be relaunching the service with the additional daily trip to demonstrate that there is a serious commitment to significantly address the poor service offering over the past 6 years.
1. Currently as 5 car sets they are  PCJ,ACN,BRN,BN, BDN,BN x 3 sets .  As 4 car sets they will be  PCJ,ACN,BRN,BDN,BN.

2. Agree with 4 x 4 car sets properly rotated and  maintained a 4th  return trip should be offered on Weekdays.
With correct rotation two sets will be available overnight in Melbourne for PPM, one set in Melb daylight from 0700 to early evening, and  a second set in Melbourne from midday to 1500 ish .

3. V/Line could help itself with reliability with such low tech solutions like internal patio bolts (fitted with a common keyed lock) on all internal doors of N/Z cars .  Then when you get a defective door, you secure it shut with the patio bolt, but the train can still run; instead of the current nonsense of a whole train being cancelled because of one defective door . (H cars are all fitted with emergency manual locks so that one set of defective doors does not immobilize a whole train -  VLP never learns : its NOT rocket science  !!!)  

4. Also VLP use the HEP all wrong on the North East .  One should use the HEP from the loco in one direction, and the HEP from the PCJ in the other .  By using both  HEP sources on a regular basis the HEP operation is proven to be more reliable.  Use the HEP only on the loco and when you go to use the PCJ the operation will not be reliable, use the PCJ as the HEP source full time and when you fire up the HEP on the N class you will get problems .

5. VLP cannot think outside the square, why spare sets why not spare carriages or a mix of both .  In days gone by Vicrail had spare carriages by rotation for the bg country services and the sg  Spirit of Progress  (SOP)  in addition several Z cars were modified to be able to run on either gauge at short notice by a simple change of bogies.

6. It would help sg reliability  immensely if short time/immediate sg repairs could be done at CMD and this is easily achieved by providing third rail access from the adjacent running line into a couple of roads at CMD .

7.  VLP management basically hate their standard gauge train set, and regard it as a distraction, secondly as Albury is an Inter City service and VLP regards all longer distance pax as a nuisance,  just look at the current dumbed down slower services with lots of extra stops .  What most at VLP management would like is for Inter City to go away so they can just play with their brand new V/Locity broad gauge train set in 3 or 6 car consists running stopping all station services on clockwork timetables on the 5 Inter urban corridors .
kuldalai
VLP need to go back to 1981 with the classic fleet upgraded and those 78 N/Z cars devoted exclusively to running Inter City services to Warrnambool, Swan Hill,  Albury & Bairnsdale .(and short term also to  Shepparton) .

Reduced train set sizes running largely express within Inter urban area .
Express Footscray - Geelong - Waurn Ponds then SAS to Warrnambool.
Express Footscray - Kyneton - Castlemaine - Bendigo then SAS to Swan Hill
Express Broadmeadows - Seymour then SAS to Shepparton
Express Broadmeadows - Seymour then SAS to Albury
Express to Caulfield - Dandenong - Pakenham - Warragul - Moe - Morwell - Traralgon then SAS to  Bairnsdale

the main purpose of Inter City services is to serve longer distance pax, may take limited Inter urban pax space permitting on compulsory seat booked basis. Inter urban pax to be directed to the available high frequency local services. Results in smaller train sizes, reduced train running costs, not hauling carriages empty beyond Inter urban area to cater for Inter urban pax travelling on low yielding  fares.

Up the service frequency offering  especially on Weekdays  :

Warrnambool short term 4 return trips/longer term 5 ;  Swan Hill  3/3 ; Shepparton  4/6  ;  Albury 4/5;  Bairnsdale 4 / 5 .

Reduce the travel times by less stops in Inter Urban area  to more like the 1981 times -  Disgracefully all  Inter City services were dumbed down by VLP in 2006 with all lines now actually taking LONGER than 35 years ago - an absolute disgrace , so largely static patronage and higher operating costs - absolutely brilliant operational management by VLP  !!!

For example in 1981 Warrnambool was 3 hours 20 mins, whilst the fourth new trip in 2017 is scheduled at a snails pace  3 hours 41 mins !!!  But thats V/Line s idea of progress, and perpetuates their attitude to long distance travellers who have a very limited service offering, compared to the Inter Urban travellers on much higher frequencies . then to add further insult to injury VLP floods these  longer distance trains with outer metro pax like at Pakenham , Tarneit & Wyndam Vale !!!!   just idiotic .

Also with Warrnambool and the 9 kms longer route via Tarniet, the Warrnambools are all at Off peak times and should be running express via Werribee saving instantly 10 minutes, NOT rocket science - just a gross incompetence by VLP and PTV in not seeing that the track network is used to greatest advantage and benefit to  travellers .
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks Kuldalai,   Hence my very strong view there needs to be a mandated InterCity Business Unit with a senior manager focused on this stuff.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

This idea is worthy of come discusssion.

If you focus people on longer distance services this makes sense since the needs of longer distance passengers are different that shorter distance and the trains and ervices should be too. If the needs are different then logically the way in which passenger needs are serviced differs and needs to be delivered differently.

V/line really has become a bit of a joke in that the focus has clearly been on penny pinching rather than service driver and that in itself is a slippery slope. The question is how does V/line recover from what has been a terrible year well two years?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I have a problem with all this, and that is we are only getting one side of the story, so we are NOT getting the fair picture. What is going on though simply baffles me. The VLIne managemant are very unlikely to be idiots but in the case of the Albury service they appear to really be at a loss on how to run the service. Given what has  been said the likely explanation is these people have not got enough experience of running a train service. This is agravated by a number of factors, first  by the constant lack of enough funds on rail infrastructure thats been ongoing be ALL governments for the  past 60 years, a second factor is the constant ravings from everyone on lower taxes, this has lead all major parties to believe that cutting expentiture is a sure fire vote winner.

The mention was of the Albury service should be express to Broadmedows, the problem with all Seymour services is that there are only two tracks from North Melbourne to Broadmedows and the VLine trains are constantly been held up by the Metro services. To fix this though and provide two extra tracks to allow express services for both VLine and Metro will be both VERY expensive and would take great political courage as it would almost certainly mean bulldozing a decent wide area through the northern suburbs.

The whole answer is not going to be as simple as experienced and decent management. both the funds AND the will of ALL people need to be there, Due the selfishness and narrow mindedness of the majority of the population I cannot see an answer or an end to all this.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Post Script, I know there is a plan to send Seymour services via Upfield that will STILL though take a good deal of money to acheive only a half  solution as the north eastern suburbs are only going to continue to grow and demand an ever increasing infrastucture.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
oops Woodford.  Remember the Albury service is SG via Albion and it runs express to Broadie and then Express to Seymour, which is what Kuldalai and I say should be the style of service pattern reintroduced back onto the Warrnambool and other services.   Cheers
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Could V/Line services use the tracks on the map between Albion and Broadmeadows for passenger services and would this add much time to the current timetable?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

VLP need to go back to 1981 with the classic fleet upgraded and those 78 N/Z cars devoted exclusively to running Inter City services to Warrnambool, Swan Hill,  Albury & Bairnsdale .(and short term also to  Shepparton) .

Reduced train set sizes running largely express within Inter urban area .
Express Footscray - Geelong - Waurn Ponds then SAS to Warrnambool.
Express Footscray - Kyneton - Castlemaine - Bendigo then SAS to Swan Hill
Express Broadmeadows - Seymour then SAS to Shepparton
Express Broadmeadows - Seymour then SAS to Albury
Express to Caulfield - Dandenong - Pakenham - Warragul - Moe - Morwell - Traralgon then SAS to  Bairnsdale

kuldalai

I agree regards today's timetabled stopping conditions which are dumbed down to cater to the Inter-urban market, however I don't believe V/Line has a mind-set against the Inter-city services as you describe.

Swan Hill station that I use is a very good and modern intermodal facility and if there was a CBF factor, I don't believe that facility would be as good as it is and with the frequency of services coming and going in all directions....soon to be further increased.

You also forgot the Dimboola line...express to/from Ballarat.

Mike.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I have a problem with all this, and that is we are only getting one side of the story, so we are NOT getting the fair picture. What is going on though simply baffles me. The VLIne managemant are very unlikely to be idiots but in the case of the Albury service they appear to really be at a loss on how to run the service. Given what has  been said the likely explanation is these people have not got enough experience of running a train service. This is agravated by a number of factors, first  by the constant lack of enough funds on rail infrastructure thats been ongoing be ALL governments for the  past 60 years, a second factor is the constant ravings from everyone on lower taxes, this has lead all major parties to believe that cutting expentiture is a sure fire vote winner.

The mention was of the Albury service should be express to Broadmedows, the problem with all Seymour services is that there are only two tracks from North Melbourne to Broadmedows and the VLine trains are constantly been held up by the Metro services. To fix this though and provide two extra tracks to allow express services for both VLine and Metro will be both VERY expensive and would take great political courage as it would almost certainly mean bulldozing a decent wide area through the northern suburbs.

The whole answer is not going to be as simple as experienced and decent management. both the funds AND the will of ALL people need to be there, Due the selfishness and narrow mindedness of the majority of the population I cannot see an answer or an end to all this.

woodford
woodford
Albury services are on sg and can easily run express  Broady - Seymour.
Seymour is double track basically beyond Metro area .  Shepparton tarins can easily run express beyond Metro area to/from Seymour on the existing infrastructure.

Within the Metro area short term the plan is to run  bg Seymour/ Shepparton via Upfield and  Somerton where there is tarck capacity and better paths, releasing VLP paths to metro between North Melbourne and  Somerton .

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