Shrike Models

 
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
What a mess and a sad state of affairs this has turned out to be and we will all be the poorer for it, both modellers and importers, the trust of pre-orders will wain if it has not already and some projects may not go ahead from a perceived "lack of interest"

We may be getting a RTR 30 class and eventually a 30T by "How a RTR steam loco should be made"....as noted in the full page advert in the latest AMRM.

But no doubt with RP25/110 wheels in 2017 after thirty six years of experience manufacturing for the Australian Model Railway industry.....

fingers crossed then for a correct sized, shape funnel.

sigh....

Regards,

Catchpoint

Sponsored advertisement

  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Dear All,
One has to wonder how much it would cost to take the project off Ixion?
Seems to me they would jump at the chance to offload it?

If a group of us could organise one who had good trust to start off something like, well crowd funding?

As an example someone like Lambing Flat adds to his busy schedule and arranges to take on the project.

Perhaps with the help of another manufacturer not directly interested in the 30T?

As a once off recovery operation supported by all, we offer an extremely accurate little loco at cost.

This means we add manufacturing costs to replacement engine costs and after finding the landed price including postage, simply divide one into the other and ....

Then we at Railpage will be seen , not as whingers, but people who can overcome all obstacles to make sure all those that lost money, actually didn't Very Happy
And those who  did not actually buy one in the first place can buy one or two, to help the common good, and actually get a really nice Locomotive.

I believe crowd funding works by people agreeing to pay money for a project. A contract.
But the funding must reach an amount equal to what the project needs, before you are committed to pay one cent.

I am prepared to commit $1000 to a crowd funded (ex-Ixion C30T)   That might get me two c30T or some other return on my investment, depending on how the crowd funded C30T is set up?

Ok what do we all say?
Rod Young
https://www.choice.com.au/money/financial-planning-and-investing/stock-market-investing/articles/crowdfunding-risks-and-rewards
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Just to add,

I am just a retired train driver, and not at all savvy to all of this. If I could, I would have done it years ago. I guess many of us are in the same boat.
If I am naive, well I guess that's how it all is.
But I have taken part in two crowd funded ventures. Got more than I would have guessed. One investment, cost me $130, and retails at $499. It was a great project, and so I know it can work.
Rod Young

ps David see if we can find some expertise and if this takes off, or is even a possibility, we could move it to its own heading later on. I honestly believe if Shrike?/ Ixion co-operated, or were able to co-operate is probably more accurate, we could do this ourselves, provided we get an upstanding clever honest leader to keep it moving.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Dear All,
One has to wonder how much it would cost to take the project off Ixion?
Seems to me they would jump at the chance to offload it?



Rod Young
https://www.choice.com.au/money/financial-planning-and-investing/stock-market-investing/articles/crowdfunding-risks-and-rewards
comtrain
As Ixion have said on numerous occasions, they are not the owners of the tooling thus have no liability to the project. The mystery owner of the tooling has a pile of worthless junk if they can't get the model into production.

As an aside it's a pity Geoff Hope didn't take up Lindsay O'Reilly's offer in a comment posted on this thread last week which was one of several comments subsequently archived and deleted by the moderator where he was invited to give his side of the debacle. I'm sure we would all like to hear that. You don't seriously believe anyone is going to sink more money into the sinking ship without knowing the full story.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Without a doubt, it would need a bit of co-operation to get it going.
I did say they might not be able to.
However why not see what others have to say?

If it looks like it could work, then we elect our "trusted person" to negotiate through the complications of the transfer of title.

Kingfisher, if general opinion and better advice tells us it could work, you would be in it, wouldn't you?

At Liverpool a couple years ago, the only complaint about this model was weight. That was fixed!
All thought it was the best pre-production sample seen for a long time. If that was indeed so, it is doubtful a third party is going to do it better, probably only heavier Smile Modellers will not want it to haul 70 S wagons up a 1 in 30 grade anyway, just a real prototype load, and the newest sample can do that, I am told.
Cheers
Rod
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

What a mess this is for the hobby .


Shrike customers for both projects ( Rx class & 30T ) are out of pocket and now have No models .

Ixion models confirmed back in march that they would not walk away from the 30T project with the Austrains 30T on the drawing board .

Ixion models even put on their sites buy a 32 class to help fund the 30T project and now 6 months plus they walk away .


So the question is who owns the Shrike tooling for the 30T .

1. Is it the tooling company owed money ?

2 . A mystery person who paid money to shrike . If so where did that money go ?


There would be a lot of Questions but who knows the answers ?


If everybody gets a refund then they can keep their secret's


But until then seek legal advice and maybe get together as a group to get a refund from shrike if they are still hiding
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

Without a doubt, it would need a bit of co-operation to get it going.

At Liverpool a couple years ago, the only complaint about this model was weight. That was fixed!
comtrain
Was the weight issue actually fixed?

Who would want to crowd fund a loco that Austrains has said it will produce?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Without a doubt, it would need a bit of co-operation to get it going.

At Liverpool a couple years ago, the only complaint about this model was weight. That was fixed!
Was the weight issue actually fixed?

Who would want to crowd fund a loco that Austrains has said it will produce?
NSWRcars
I believe so!  The initial sample that had a terrible video clip showed how poor it was.  I actually got in touch with Geoff and suggested some areas that could help put weight over the driving wheels, also ensure the spring on the front bogie was not too hard.  I do not recollect seeing another video of the model that came out with more weight as to what it could pull, however at Liverpool last year he had two models there, one the original and the other the production sample, which was said to have all the additions and the like and was ready to go into production. Said the model would be in Oz prior to this years CNY.

The production model was certainly of a good weight, and well balanced so to me it would have certainly been more than able to pull a load that was a prototypical one. What the end user needed to be aware of though that these loco's were basically branch line loco's, and the loads they hauled were typical for those lines. Both the lower rated Saturated and Superheated versions had the same loads listed for them, even though the super 30T was used in place of 32cl on one Richmond line service in the morning and did the work more than comfortably.

The more I read in regard to this model, the more confused I am.  I understood some mystery man, probably someone, or other that maybe green in colour and came down with the last flying saucer spotting or flash across the sky. I understood that Geoff Hope had paid up all monies for the tooling as well as the money for production was in hand, guess that was the same as with the RX, next we hear is that there is a delay and the Ixion 32 was to take its spot on the production line, as the two were working together as seen with the sharing of the two tender types.

That was basically where things finished, and the turn of events that had the Martian in China, who was able to sell the toolings to what I understood through the clouded mists of time Ixion models, who confirmed they had purchased them, and they were supposed to be complete toolings only waiting for the spot in the slot to become real, unlike the martian.

The events and promises we all know about but now we have nothing?  Question is I guess is how much would the current owner/s of the toolings want for them?  Thats likely a $164000.00 question.  In affect the way things stand now, is that there are a complete set of toolings available for the production of a 30T, but will sit on a floor somewhere only to corrode away. as the current owners say the factory has doubled the price to produce the model, basically meaning, again, the toolings are totally useless as they are a wasted item that some or more has invested a lot of money in for what good purpose let alone reason.

The only failing that I could see with the toolings are that they are made for plastic/abs material rather than for metal. Yet, the way the extra weights that were put into the model had resolved the issue as far as the end user/buyer would be concerned.

Realistically then, Geoff Hope along with those who ordered and paid for the 30T, along with those at Ixion and not forgetting the dumbbells which includes me, have thrown a lot of time. effort and money into something that all seemed to have lost out on, with only the martian coming out of it ok, besides the factory who got their money.

To me, and I know several others who feel the same, this whole saga has really shorted out the confidence that we were all starting to regain after so many years of delayed models that have been often a let down after they eventually arrived, sort of wonder what was the point of getting past Lima and their near enoughs, at least we got them.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Without a doubt, it would need a bit of co-operation to get it going.

At Liverpool a couple years ago, the only complaint about this model was weight. That was fixed!
Was the weight issue actually fixed?

Who would want to crowd fund a loco that Austrains has said it will produce?
I believe so!  The initial sample that had a terrible video clip showed how poor it was.  I actually got in touch with Geoff and suggested some areas that could help put weight over the driving wheels, also ensure the spring on the front bogie was not too hard.  I do not recollect seeing another video of the model that came out with more weight as to what it could pull, however at Liverpool last year he had two models there, one the original and the other the production sample, which was said to have all the additions and the like and was ready to go into production. Said the model would be in Oz prior to this years CNY.

The production model was certainly of a good weight, and well balanced so to me it would have certainly been more than able to pull a load that was a prototypical one. What the end user needed to be aware of though that these loco's were basically branch line loco's, and the loads they hauled were typical for those lines. Both the lower rated Saturated and Superheated versions had the same loads listed for them, even though the super 30T was used in place of 32cl on one Richmond line service in the morning and did the work more than comfortably.

The more I read in regard to this model, the more confused I am.  I understood some mystery man, probably someone, or other that maybe green in colour and came down with the last flying saucer spotting or flash across the sky. I understood that Geoff Hope had paid up all monies for the tooling as well as the money for production was in hand, guess that was the same as with the RX, next we hear is that there is a delay and the Ixion 32 was to take its spot on the production line, as the two were working together as seen with the sharing of the two tender types.

That was basically where things finished, and the turn of events that had the Martian in China, who was able to sell the toolings to what I understood through the clouded mists of time Ixion models, who confirmed they had purchased them, and they were supposed to be complete toolings only waiting for the spot in the slot to become real, unlike the martian.

The events and promises we all know about but now we have nothing?  Question is I guess is how much would the current owner/s of the toolings want for them?  Thats likely a $164000.00 question.  In affect the way things stand now, is that there are a complete set of toolings available for the production of a 30T, but will sit on a floor somewhere only to corrode away. as the current owners say the factory has doubled the price to produce the model, basically meaning, again, the toolings are totally useless as they are a wasted item that some or more has invested a lot of money in for what good purpose let alone reason.

The only failing that I could see with the toolings are that they are made for plastic/abs material rather than for metal. Yet, the way the extra weights that were put into the model had resolved the issue as far as the end user/buyer would be concerned.

Realistically then, Geoff Hope along with those who ordered and paid for the 30T, along with those at Ixion and not forgetting the dumbbells which includes me, have thrown a lot of time. effort and money into something that all seemed to have lost out on, with only the martian coming out of it ok, besides the factory who got their money.

To me, and I know several others who feel the same, this whole saga has really shorted out the confidence that we were all starting to regain after so many years of delayed models that have been often a let down after they eventually arrived, sort of wonder what was the point of getting past Lima and their near enoughs, at least we got them.
a6et
You are repeating the furphy that Ixion Models assumed ownership of the tooling when they have clearly stated on several occasions that they are not the owners of the tooling. If they owned the tooling it certainly is not in their interest to not go into production as the tooling are at the moment just very expensive but useless lumps of metal.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
With respect, while it may seem to be a good idea, thing is I have had good contacts with Lindsay in the past, and that was when they were after help which I gladly supplied and provided, but it was pretty obvious that whoever is in charge of Ixion was not interested in certain things and in the end despite all the promises and nice words in the end it turned out a pointless exercise, to which I believe the same thing would apply this time around.
Did Ixion put it writing that they were going to do xyz, but are now not? If the answer is YES, then as far as I'm concerned, they are in breach-of-contract.

Sorry, but I for one am sorry I ordered a model, and while I cannot really afford the loss of the money I paid, but its now something I have to wear, and would find it very difficult to do business with Ixion in the future.  So, that's it from me, but there are how many others who really would like to know the truth of it all.
You DON'T have to "wear it" take the company to the Department of Fair Trading.
Newcastle Express
You know nothing about how contracts, or the related breach of contracts, work. No one had a contract with Ixion for supply of C30T's.

The company people did have contracts with (Shrike) has been deregistered, there is nothing the  Department of Fair Trading can do beyond advising unsecured creditors they would need to follow the procedures at http://asic.gov.au/for-business/closing-your-company/effects-of-deregistration/a-deregistered-company-owes-you-money/
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Without a doubt, it would need a bit of co-operation to get it going.

At Liverpool a couple years ago, the only complaint about this model was weight. That was fixed!
Was the weight issue actually fixed?

Who would want to crowd fund a loco that Austrains has said it will produce?
I believe so!  The initial sample that had a terrible video clip showed how poor it was.  I actually got in touch with Geoff and suggested some areas that could help put weight over the driving wheels, also ensure the spring on the front bogie was not too hard.  I do not recollect seeing another video of the model that came out with more weight as to what it could pull, however at Liverpool last year he had two models there, one the original and the other the production sample, which was said to have all the additions and the like and was ready to go into production. Said the model would be in Oz prior to this years CNY.

The production model was certainly of a good weight, and well balanced so to me it would have certainly been more than able to pull a load that was a prototypical one. What the end user needed to be aware of though that these loco's were basically branch line loco's, and the loads they hauled were typical for those lines. Both the lower rated Saturated and Superheated versions had the same loads listed for them, even though the super 30T was used in place of 32cl on one Richmond line service in the morning and did the work more than comfortably.

The more I read in regard to this model, the more confused I am.  I understood some mystery man, probably someone, or other that maybe green in colour and came down with the last flying saucer spotting or flash across the sky. I understood that Geoff Hope had paid up all monies for the tooling as well as the money for production was in hand, guess that was the same as with the RX, next we hear is that there is a delay and the Ixion 32 was to take its spot on the production line, as the two were working together as seen with the sharing of the two tender types.

That was basically where things finished, and the turn of events that had the Martian in China, who was able to sell the toolings to what I understood through the clouded mists of time Ixion models, who confirmed they had purchased them, and they were supposed to be complete toolings only waiting for the spot in the slot to become real, unlike the martian.

The events and promises we all know about but now we have nothing?  Question is I guess is how much would the current owner/s of the toolings want for them?  Thats likely a $164000.00 question.  In affect the way things stand now, is that there are a complete set of toolings available for the production of a 30T, but will sit on a floor somewhere only to corrode away. as the current owners say the factory has doubled the price to produce the model, basically meaning, again, the toolings are totally useless as they are a wasted item that some or more has invested a lot of money in for what good purpose let alone reason.

The only failing that I could see with the toolings are that they are made for plastic/abs material rather than for metal. Yet, the way the extra weights that were put into the model had resolved the issue as far as the end user/buyer would be concerned.

Realistically then, Geoff Hope along with those who ordered and paid for the 30T, along with those at Ixion and not forgetting the dumbbells which includes me, have thrown a lot of time. effort and money into something that all seemed to have lost out on, with only the martian coming out of it ok, besides the factory who got their money.

To me, and I know several others who feel the same, this whole saga has really shorted out the confidence that we were all starting to regain after so many years of delayed models that have been often a let down after they eventually arrived, sort of wonder what was the point of getting past Lima and their near enoughs, at least we got them.
You are repeating the furphy that Ixion Models assumed ownership of the tooling when they have clearly stated on several occasions that they are not the owners of the tooling. If they owned the tooling it certainly is not in their interest to not go into production as the tooling are at the moment just very expensive but useless lumps of metal.
kingfisher
Who said the new owner "paid" for the tooling?

Let's just pretend the new owner (not Ixion) got it for free (just pretend)...

The new owner supplied Ixion with the 6 wheel tender they needed for the 32 class

The new owners can now leave the tooling to rust as it didn't cost them anything and they're already ahead with the tender for the 32.

The tooling doesn't owe them anything.

Paul
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

What a mess this is for the hobby .


Shrike customers for both projects ( Rx class & 30T ) are out of pocket and now have No models .

Ixion models confirmed back in march that they would not walk away from the 30T project with the Austrains 30T on the drawing board .

Ixion models even put on their sites buy a 32 class to help fund the 30T project and now 6 months plus they walk away .


So the question is who owns the Shrike tooling for the 30T .

1. Is it the tooling company owed money ?

2 . A mystery person who paid money to shrike . If so where did that money go ?


There would be a lot of Questions but who knows the answers ?


If everybody gets a refund then they can keep their secret's


But until then seek legal advice and maybe get together as a group to get a refund from shrike if they are still hiding
BIG-BEAR
Given that Shrike reckon they haven't got any money to refund, let's throw in a 3rd option:

3. A mystery person obtained the tooling with no money paid to Shrike...


Paul
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
I am sorry that people appear to have lost the money that they paid to Shrike - but how is that Ixon's fault? Ixon clearly have stated that they 1) didn't own the tooling, 2) the project was contingent on good sales of the C32 model, 3) they weren't Shrike.

Notice that someone intendeds to produce a model is not a contract with anyone.

Taking orders and deposits clearly is and whoever is in that situation should take advice about what to do from and appropriately qualified and experienced person which, with all due respects, seems unlikely to be found on this thread.

Clearly since Ixon's announcement Austrains has come into the market and as Ixon says in their announcement costs have gone up and sales of the C32 have been slower than expected. It is not surprising that the project has stopped.

As for crowd funding - I would say once bitten twice shy.

Iain
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Without a doubt, it would need a bit of co-operation to get it going.

At Liverpool a couple years ago, the only complaint about this model was weight. That was fixed!
Was the weight issue actually fixed?

Who would want to crowd fund a loco that Austrains has said it will produce?
NSWRcars
In this case those who thought beyond the "ME" and about the "US"
I know modern day folk are greedy and pretty insensitive to others plights. I guess we are all sick and tired of being bombarded by TV commercials showing beautiful little kids in awful circumstances pleading for donations day in and day out. Save the tigers!  And then we know less than 20 cents in the dollar actually helps these kids, as local African and Arab gangs and the funds own CEO and staff eat up the rest.

Ixion probably thought they could do it, but they had no idea how another manufacturer might react. That manufacturer probably expects folk that lost $495 because he is going to make the engine to front up and pay another $600 for his?
I certainly wouldn't? As far as I am concerned if the Shrike/Ixion C30T does not come, then Albury remains with diesels as originally intended.

Sure we can band together and seek legal action and pour more money down the drain, and make lawyers rich.
We can whinge and smeg about Ixion's good intentions overcome by reality.
We can band together and at no cost, we can crowd fund 1500 models and price them under the third parties engine, and still give all the Shrike customers their engine, using the Ixion figures, but only if we guarantee the sales first...
And that is where crowd funding comes in

You first raise the money in form of contracted promises. Then when that goal is reached, and only then you tell Ixion to build the model, or if you have taken up the option of "buying" the model, you tell the factory to build it.

Everybody is happy? Well one wont be, of course . But he is an oportunist businessman, who has the experience and knowledge to do what individually we cant do. But as a group with a good manager we COULD certainly do it! And that leads to an interesting whole new era, doesn't it? If it worked, don't you think some small producers might take it on?
Rod Young
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

To Comtrain / Rod young

I think you have a conflict of interest when it comes to Shrike models / Geoff Hope

1 . Geoff is / was a friend

2 . You where the PR manager for Shrike models on Railpage . Which would of helped more people hand over money to shrike .

3.  You made it clear that when Shrike models went bust that you where going to miss out on your two free models .

4 . You have often said don't make lawyers rich by going after a refund .


And for all of the Shrike customers if you get to together as a group and get one lawyer and say he cost $ 10,000 to get your money back and the cost is split  between 100 to 150 customers or models.

Eg full refund minus $ 50 to $100 per model which would depend on numbers and cost etc or you can just give up to the fact all money lost

Something to think about
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Could it be and this is a real long shot here that the factory that was going to produce both the C30T for Shrike and the Ixion 32 class models claimed the C30T tooling as their own when Shrike found them selves scraping the bottom of the barrel for some money. So in lieu of money changing hands the tooling was simple given to them at no cost to clear the debt. The factory could then lease the tooling to a manufacture/distributor and at least get some money back on the investment, which looks like it might have happened. But in the mean time cost's for production have gone up and as the third party has to pay for leasing the dies etc and then getting the models put together the cost per item simply blew out. This does sound feasible though.

I do not know if the above is true but then again it might just be so.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
And for all of the Shrike customers if you get to together as a group and get one lawyer and say he cost $ 10,000 to get your money back and the cost is split  between 100 to 150 customers or models.

Eg full refund minus $ 50 to $100 per model which would depend on numbers and cost etc or you can just give up to the fact all money lost

Something to think about
BIG-BEAR
Good money after bad. First it was "pay up an extra $85 and we will sell you your 30T." They still proclaim on http://ixionmodels.blogspot.com.au/ "Ixion Models will not "walk away" from producing the 30T. We are men of our word."

Now it's pay an extra $50-$100... and get a lawyer and a "class action" going.

Forget it. Write it off to experience.

I will not be pre-ordering from Ixion, or anyone else, unless there is a credit card payment option. Let them try hiding from the likes of Visa or Mastercard when it comes to debt recovery. Or back to scratch-building if necessary if I really want that model.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

And for all of the Shrike customers if you get to together as a group and get one lawyer and say he cost $ 10,000 to get your money back and the cost is split  between 100 to 150 customers or models.

Eg full refund minus $ 50 to $100 per model which would depend on numbers and cost etc or you can just give up to the fact all money lost

Something to think about
Good money after bad. First it was "pay up an extra $85 and we will sell you your 30T." They still proclaim on http://ixionmodels.blogspot.com.au/ "Ixion Models will not "walk away" from producing the 30T. We are men of our word."

Now it's pay an extra $50-$100... and get a lawyer and a "class action" going.

Forget it. Write it off to experience.

I will not be pre-ordering from Ixion, or anyone else, unless there is a credit card payment option. Let them try hiding from the likes of Visa or Mastercard when it comes to debt recovery. Or back to scratch-building if necessary if I really want that model.
apw5910
It was just a thought

To get back $ 480 per model at a cost of $ 50 to $ 100 per model .

It would all depend on lawyer cost and how many people would wont to be involved .

You would need to know cost before starting something like that and get a lawyer with no win no fee  .

just a idea
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
Ixion are not to blame here.  They have done their best to do an honorable thing that they did not have to do.  They chose to try and salvage the project.  The fault for them not being able to follow through lies squarely with Mr Eassie.

When the Austrains 30T was announced I emailed Mr Eassie and was quite frankly astounded by the lack of any shred of human decency in his reply.  He was condescending, downright rude even, in response to the issues I raised with his plans and his sick sense of humor.  This attitude was directed at a long standing customer of his, he well and truly knew that.

Mr Eassie claimed in one of his responses to me that in the industry 'everyone is out to cut someone or others throat at some time or other.'

Be under no illusions.  It is only Mr Eassie doing the throat cutting in this situation.  The man is a bully.  

It is his choice, as someone moving into 'semi retirement' from the industry, to pursue such a single-mindedly brutal project.  

I for one won't buy from Austrains again.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Could it be and this is a real long shot here that the factory that was going to produce both the C30T for Shrike and the Ixion 32 class models claimed the C30T tooling as their own when Shrike found them selves scraping the bottom of the barrel for some money. So in lieu of money changing hands the tooling was simple given to them at no cost to clear the debt. The factory could then lease the tooling to a manufacture/distributor and at least get some money back on the investment, which looks like it might have happened. But in the mean time cost's for production have gone up and as the third party has to pay for leasing the dies etc and then getting the models put together the cost per item simply blew out. This does sound feasible though.

I do not know if the above is true but then again it might just be so.
David Peters
No, not true.

The truth is much more "juicy" than that!

Paul
  Albert Chief Commissioner

Ixion are not to blame here.  They have done their best to do an honorable thing that they did not have to do.  They chose to try and salvage the project.  The fault for them not being able to follow through lies squarely with Mr Eassie.

When the Austrains 30T was announced I emailed Mr Eassie and was quite frankly astounded by the lack of any shred of human decency in his reply.  He was condescending, downright rude even, in response to the issues I raised with his plans and his sick sense of humor.  This attitude was directed at a long standing customer of his, he well and truly knew that.

Mr Eassie claimed in one of his responses to me that in the industry 'everyone is out to cut someone or others throat at some time or other.'

Be under no illusions.  It is only Mr Eassie doing the throat cutting in this situation.  The man is a bully.  

It is his choice, as someone moving into 'semi retirement' from the industry, to pursue such a single-mindedly brutal project.  

I for one won't buy from Austrains again.
TheFish
How is a Company that has not ties to the Shrike, 3rd party tooling, Ixion fiasco at fault?

Fine, you don't like his attitude. So what? Ixion are not all peaches and cream either. They promised salvation to Shrike customers, then walked away. Not before taking advantage of Shrikes tooling.

I understand Ixion's decision. They don't want to take the financial risk. But to blame JE of Austrains is not logical. It is not like there hasn't been a duplication of models before, 3 Companies are spitting out the 48class.  

What gets me about the whole drama is the deposits paid by pre orders would have gone in to tooling. The mysterious 3rd party, one would assume, paid for it, either to Shrike or the factory (if the case was Shrike was unable to complete the deal with the factory). Did the 3rd party acquire the tooling by paying for all of it's value or just the balance owed to the factory? If it's the latter the 3rd party is holding the deposit value of the pre paid customers and goes some way to explaining why Shrike is out of money. No wonder they would want to remain anonymous.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Ixion are not to blame here.  They have done their best to do an honorable thing that they did not have to do.  They chose to try and salvage the project.  The fault for them not being able to follow through lies squarely with Mr Eassie.

When the Austrains 30T was announced I emailed Mr Eassie and was quite frankly astounded by the lack of any shred of human decency in his reply.  He was condescending, downright rude even, in response to the issues I raised with his plans and his sick sense of humor.  This attitude was directed at a long standing customer of his, he well and truly knew that.

Mr Eassie claimed in one of his responses to me that in the industry 'everyone is out to cut someone or others throat at some time or other.'

Be under no illusions.  It is only Mr Eassie doing the throat cutting in this situation.  The man is a bully.  

It is his choice, as someone moving into 'semi retirement' from the industry, to pursue such a single-mindedly brutal project.  

I for one won't buy from Austrains again.
TheFish

My understanding was that Austrains had been working on the 30 Tank for some time.

When Shrike collapsed, Austrains decided to make a 30T using the same tooling as the tank engine.

In theory, that put them at a cost disadvantage to Ixion who had access to existing tooling.

It would appear that Ixion abandoned production because they were quoted too high a production cost.

Presumably Austrains have had a quote which was acceptable.

Surely it is the Chinese factory that stopped the Ixion 30T, not Austrains...

M636C
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Ixion are not to blame here.  They have done their best to do an honorable thing that they did not have to do.  They chose to try and salvage the project.  The fault for them not being able to follow through lies squarely with Mr Eassie.

When the Austrains 30T was announced I emailed Mr Eassie and was quite frankly astounded by the lack of any shred of human decency in his reply.  He was condescending, downright rude even, in response to the issues I raised with his plans and his sick sense of humor.  This attitude was directed at a long standing customer of his, he well and truly knew that.

Mr Eassie claimed in one of his responses to me that in the industry 'everyone is out to cut someone or others throat at some time or other.'

Be under no illusions.  It is only Mr Eassie doing the throat cutting in this situation.  The man is a bully.  

It is his choice, as someone moving into 'semi retirement' from the industry, to pursue such a single-mindedly brutal project.  

I for one won't buy from Austrains again.

My understanding was that Austrains had been working on the 30 Tank for some time.

When Shrike collapsed, Austrains decided to make a 30T using the same tooling as the tank engine.

In theory, that put them at a cost disadvantage to Ixion who had access to existing tooling.

It would appear that Ixion abandoned production because they were quoted too high a production cost.

Presumably Austrains have had a quote which was acceptable.

Surely it is the Chinese factory that stopped the Ixion 30T, not Austrains...

M636C
M636C
"It would appear that Ixion abandoned production because they were quoted too high a production cost."

And yet, they costed and made a bona-fide offer to Shrike customers of $85 per loco (presumably that's the actual cost to mold, assemble, paint and package each loco when you've already got the tooling paid for, so they weren't actually "loosing" anything on the deal).

Now they reckon the quote is too high. Surely no company would base the $85 amount on a "presumed" quote.

As other's have said (I'm just reiterating this info), they got their 6 wheel tender, talked up the sales of their 32 to "ensure" the C30T would go ahead and then shaft everyone when a little "competition" announces the same loco 6 months before!

Paul
  alltrainzfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Here
Ixion are not to blame here.  They have done their best to do an honorable thing that they did not have to do.  They chose to try and salvage the project.  The fault for them not being able to follow through lies squarely with Mr Eassie.

When the Austrains 30T was announced I emailed Mr Eassie and was quite frankly astounded by the lack of any shred of human decency in his reply.  He was condescending, downright rude even, in response to the issues I raised with his plans and his sick sense of humor.  This attitude was directed at a long standing customer of his, he well and truly knew that.

Mr Eassie claimed in one of his responses to me that in the industry 'everyone is out to cut someone or others throat at some time or other.'

Be under no illusions.  It is only Mr Eassie doing the throat cutting in this situation.  The man is a bully.  

It is his choice, as someone moving into 'semi retirement' from the industry, to pursue such a single-mindedly brutal project.  

I for one won't buy from Austrains again.
"TheFish"


What a funny post.

This is a competitive industry.

No one jumped when Auscision decided to duplicate the 48 when it was already done by Powerline and Trainorama.

Nor when Austrains duplicated the T when Powerline did it, same for the ELX.

Remember when Powerline were doing the 36 class back in the 90s but Austrains beat them to it too. If you want to use an example of a "small market model".

Ixion have had ample opportunity to respond since March and from all accounts the tooling and pre production samples are already done which means all that needs to be done is production.

I have met John Eassie and he is a smart businessman who is polite and kind. If you're rude to him then expect a rude response back (which is rightly so with some of the dumb comments some of these poor manufacturers deal with).

He won't hurt from you being one in thousands of others who refuse to buy from him again.

The fact that Ixion is taking so long and can't commit meant there is an opportunity here to be taken. Good work to the one who took it. I can see on Facebook that Ixion are personally blaming John Eassie and asking him to rescind his 30T. That is the wrong way to go about it and shows really a lack of business sense.

The world is out there for all of us to take advantage of. Those who do it right will be successful.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
The world is out there for all of us to take advantage of. Those who do it right will be successful.
alltrainzfan
I sincerely hope you don't try to find happiness in your life by taking advantage of others.  What of the moral cost of said success?

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