Canberra ARHS

 
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Its been moved for security reasons.  Its not like you can hide a loco all that easy - the liquidators know where it is!

The value would be what someone would pay for it - i wonder if they'd auction it?

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  a6et Minister for Railways

Stop moaning. The NSW government has thrown a huge amount of taxpayers money into heritage rail and probably on the basis of which organisations it thinks has some chance of success. Hence the bulk of it going to Thirlmere.

Thirlmere is probably where 6029 plus other locos from the ACT will end up. I am somewhat puzzled how 6029 plus were released with the ACT Museum being placed in administration as it would be a major asset of the museum if the assets need to be disposed of. Maybe they are just being released into the care of Thirlmere until further arrangements are made?

Not sure how you value such an item. All the way from scrap value to a work of industrial art.
nswtrains
I am not moaning, all I am doing is to try & put some sort of perspective into things. When THNSW was formed or before that, the set up included in part that all the preservation societies were to come under the umbrella of it as for the future of the system.

What I have said is nothing more than commending the work of the people at Canberra in what they did in the restoration of the garratt, but not just them but I would suggest even Thrilmere is basically run on a shoe string with volountees. Is it moaning in regard to the lake of watering facilities on the Central Coast?  If you wonder about it ask some people who were took a certain steam locomotive recently to Rothbury for major surgery and were put behind stopping passenger train had not been able to get water at Gosford loco single column as it was blocked, and the first place they could get water was Telerah even though the loco was timed to go straight to Rothbury but would have run out of water before they got there.

So all the fleet goes to Thrilmere and where do they go from there? out the back with the remainder of the skeletons.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Its been moved for security reasons.  Its not like you can hide a loco all that easy - the liquidators know where it is!

The value would be what someone would pay for it - i wonder if they'd auction it?
james.au
Depends who owns it Cool
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

From an interstaters point of view is the ARHS Canberra does that not operate a freight company called ESPEE? What has become of that company and its operations?
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

IIRC the Fed Govt (through Nat Museum of Australia?) have a financial interest in 6029 and 1210. Anyone else recall something of that nature?
  georges Train Controller

IIRC the Fed Govt (through Nat Museum of Australia?) have a financial interest in 6029 and 1210. Anyone else recall something of that nature?
Lockspike
Wikipedia says that National Museum owns 6029 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6029

1210 was acquired by the Commonwealth in 1962 and loaned to ARHS(ACT) in 1984  - http://www.environment.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/580733/Locomotive_Number_1210_Steam_Train.pdf.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
A search of the NMA collection reveals no Garratts.

A google search reveals it was reportedly sold to the Canberra Railway Museum for $1

http://www.wellingtontimes.com.au/story/3933621/famous-and-largest-steam-locomotive-in-southern-hemisphere-flys-through-wellington-en-route-to-dubbo/

Until i see legal documentation, I'm leaving this up to the liquidators.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
From an interstaters point of view is the ARHS Canberra does that not operate a freight company called ESPEE? What has become of that company and its operations?
trainbrain
Wound up and staff laid off prior to this announcement.
  Bevan Wall Deputy Commissioner

I think it is being way too pessimistic to think that assets such as the museum's locomotives will be sold off. Given that the Museum's tour trains do make a considerable profit, I imagine that the Administrator's first goal will be to find a way for the Museum to eventually begin operations again in order to trade its way out of insolvency. In the medium term an injection of funds directly from the ACT government, or perhaps from some of the revenue generated by the sale of the large expanse of railway property around the current terminus, is probably what is needed. Obviously the selling of the land would necessitate the relocation of the museum a little further east, but there is plenty of space available, such as in the extremely wide corridor between the two road bridges at Fycshwick or in the old Queanbeyan rail yard, and this would provide the opportunity to construct a purpose built layout and buildings which a modern, "public friendly" facility needs.
Given how successful the visits to the large regional towns have been and the overwhelmingly positive reputation that these trips have generated within the general public (6029 is fast becoming as well known as 3801) I reckon there is merit in setting up one of those crowd funding campaigns to raise funds as well.
Knowing how dedicated and hard working the ARHS volunteers are I have no doubt that we will eventually see the museum reopen and its locomotives running again.
BW
  a6et Minister for Railways

I think it is being way too pessimistic to think that assets such as the museum's locomotives will be sold off. Given that the Museum's tour trains do make a considerable profit, I imagine that the Administrator's first goal will be to find a way for the Museum to eventually begin operations again in order to trade its way out of insolvency. In the medium term an injection of funds directly from the ACT government, or perhaps from some of the revenue generated by the sale of the large expanse of railway property around the current terminus, is probably what is needed. Obviously the selling of the land would necessitate the relocation of the museum a little further east, but there is plenty of space available, such as in the extremely wide corridor between the two road bridges at Fycshwick or in the old Queanbeyan rail yard, and this would provide the opportunity to construct a purpose built layout and buildings which a modern, "public friendly" facility needs.
Given how successful the visits to the large regional towns have been and the overwhelmingly positive reputation that these trips have generated within the general public (6029 is fast becoming as well known as 3801) I reckon there is merit in setting up one of those crowd funding campaigns to raise funds as well.
Knowing how dedicated and hard working the ARHS volunteers are I have no doubt that we will eventually see the museum reopen and its locomotives running again.
BW
Bevan Wall
Bevan

The idea as to selling off of land is a good one indeed, thing is who actually owns all the vacant land around the area, that includes near the station, the goods shed opposite the station especially the vacant land behind it and towards the Museum area?

With the Baird government having its sights on land around the old BMD loco depot, I imagine they would not have any control over the area surrounding Canberra station and Museum, so a determination on that would be good and if some of it could be sold off to the benefit of the museum certainly would be a good move.  The question though is whether to stay at the current facility or move towards or to Queenbeyan.

The cost to move and build complete new facilities seems on the surface a good idea, yet it would mean a large proportion of the sale proceeds would be eaten up in that, while if the current facilities were in the main still suitable, then the money could be better spent on the existing area and provide one quality repair shed capable of housing the operating fleet and for servicing. Other covered areas could be built for other vital items as well.

By remaining in the same area, it would also possibly help the Espee business in generating new business as well as trying to get the scrap contract back. The big area that the ARHS may need to look at is getting a couple of operational Main line diesels of their own to work those trains, rather than the lease of diesels, but costing and comparisons need to be looked at. The whole area really is situated in the main industrial hub area of Canberra as well, so staying there could be more beneficial

While not a great problem, the one thing that is not at the museum and could be of use is a Turntable.  I know the one located at QBYN is locked away, but if moved to the museum that enables them to use their loco's engine first to Goulburn both directions as well as providing a similar basis for other steam tours to and from Canberra.  Unless I am mistaken there is no TT at Canberra.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
a6et: you mustn't have been to Canberra for a while. The old industrial area (Govt printer, power station etc) is long gone, it is now an ever expanding residential development. The Kingston site has already been identified (2009) as suitable for more real estate development, there's a ACT govt report available for download if you want to read it, http://www.planning.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/892093/Railway_Masterplan_Report.pdf The museum certainly doesn't own the land it sits on and may not benefit from its sale, unless any "community payback" from its sale is generous and directed towards the museum. I think the only reason the museum is still there is the slowdown in apartment sales. The Kingston Foreshore development is right up next to the rail yard at Canberra station now, just across the road. The ACT govt has no railway history to preserve, the CR handover to NSWGR (or StateRail, I forget) happened before ACT self-government.

Curiously, the ACT govt has funded some recent upgrades in the museum site - another shed, platform extension (yet to happen), some other things. Left hand not telling the right...

Espee didn't lose the scrap contract, it stopped running scrap trains because the bottom fell out of the scrap business. Until then, it was a good earner.

There has been a 60' TT stored at the museum for many years, it has just never had a pit dug and installed.
  a6et Minister for Railways

a6et: you mustn't have been to Canberra for a while. The old industrial area (Govt printer, power station etc) is long gone, it is now an ever expanding residential development. The Kingston site has already been identified (2009) as suitable for more real estate development, there's a ACT govt report available for download if you want to read it, http://www.planning.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/892093/Railway_Masterplan_Report.pdf The museum certainly doesn't own the land it sits on and may not benefit from its sale, unless any "community payback" from its sale is generous and directed towards the museum. I think the only reason the museum is still there is the slowdown in apartment sales. The Kingston Foreshore development is right up next to the rail yard at Canberra station now, just across the road. The ACT govt has no railway history to preserve, the CR handover to NSWGR (or StateRail, I forget) happened before ACT self-government.

Curiously, the ACT govt has funded some recent upgrades in the museum site - another shed, platform extension (yet to happen), some other things. Left hand not telling the right...

Espee didn't lose the scrap contract, it stopped running scrap trains because the bottom fell out of the scrap business. Until then, it was a good earner.

There has been a 60' TT stored at the museum for many years, it has just never had a pit dug and installed.
apw5910
Last time I was there was Easter 2016 when the night photo shoot was on.

The area I am looking at is as you head away from the museum towards Queenbeyan there is what looks on Google earth to be more an industrial area to the east of Ipswich st, maybe more commercial than Industrial I guess.

Will have a read of the PDF and thanks for it.  If the Canberra government has helped them to this point, and I understand there has been some financial support also having the land also likely owned by Canberra government would they be more considerate to the Museum than if it went over the border into NSW? The basis of what I am saying is that the current site likely has better options than to move elsewhere, but of course it will depend very much on who owns the land and what they decide, and maybe this crisis situation may reveal that aspect before its finalised.  My hope is that it has a future.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

How can the Thirlmere Railway Museum "store" these two extra locos at their site, when they have moved other rollingstock elsewhere, as their was meant to be no more room to store any more rollingstock?
  ianadunn Locomotive Fireman



Thirlmere is probably where 6029 plus other locos from the ACT will end up. I am somewhat puzzled how 6029 plus were released with the ACT Museum being placed in administration as it would be a major asset of the museum if the assets need to be disposed of. Maybe they are just being released into the care of Thirlmere until further arrangements are made?

Not sure how you value such an item. All the way from scrap value to a work of industrial art.
nswtrains
Simple - not the property of the ARHS-ACT, therefore not an asset of that group.
  Spiritman Train Controller

Location: Camden, NSW


Thirlmere is probably where 6029 plus other locos from the ACT will end up. I am somewhat puzzled how 6029 plus were released with the ACT Museum being placed in administration as it would be a major asset of the museum if the assets need to be disposed of. Maybe they are just being released into the care of Thirlmere until further arrangements are made?

Not sure how you value such an item. All the way from scrap value to a work of industrial art.
Simple - not the property of the ARHS-ACT, therefore not an asset of that group.
ianadunn
Thilmere is getting 6029 and 3016 storing them on site till the problems in ACT are sorted out! I haven't been there in a few months but since 3830 and 2705 were moved to the static collection under cover there is room in the roundhouse. I guess they are making the decisions of where to put them as we speak.
  konkos Assistant Commissioner

Location: Live next door to half-bar
I think it is being way too pessimistic to think that assets such as the museum's locomotives will be sold off. Given that the Museum's tour trains do make a considerable profit, I imagine that the Administrator's first goal will be to find a way for the Museum to eventually begin operations again in order to trade its way out of insolvency. In the medium term an injection of funds directly from the ACT government, or perhaps from some of the revenue generated by the sale of the large expanse of railway property around the current terminus, is probably what is needed. Obviously the selling of the land would necessitate the relocation of the museum a little further east, but there is plenty of space available, such as in the extremely wide corridor between the two road bridges at Fycshwick or in the old Queanbeyan rail yard, and this would provide the opportunity to construct a purpose built layout and buildings which a modern, "public friendly" facility needs.
Given how successful the visits to the large regional towns have been and the overwhelmingly positive reputation that these trips have generated within the general public (6029 is fast becoming as well known as 3801) I reckon there is merit in setting up one of those crowd funding campaigns to raise funds as well.
Knowing how dedicated and hard working the ARHS volunteers are I have no doubt that we will eventually see the museum reopen and its locomotives running again.
BW
Bevan Wall
BW,
I tend to agree with most of what you say but a minor detail, which being that there really isn't suitable land for them to move onto in the ACT. I am led to believe that all that was explored some time ago so that's why they stayed in the current location.  Qbn is another matter but even there it would be tight.  This is only if they restarted and keep everything they own which doesn't look promising I'm sorry to say. Please  don't get my wrong, I do wish things settle down and regroup and onto bigger and better things.
konkos
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Its been moved for security reasons.  Its not like you can hide a loco all that easy - the liquidators know where it is!

The value would be what someone would pay for it - i wonder if they'd auction it?
james.au
All engines were moved to Thirlmere and Eveleigh with the provisional liquidator, John Holland, ARTC and ONRSR's permission, the liquidators are across everything. They are up there for safe keeping for the moment.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Nice to see the clarifications, Les; I expected that was the case. Too many items on a steam loco are high value, and security will forever be a problem, more so if it is known that a group is struggling. Portable components are too easily "lost". I recall not that long ago, a group in Victoria lost an excavator from their yard just after their closure was announced. Some of the parts of a steam loco make useful scrap metal, good for a hit or two for a druggie, but hugely expensive for us to replace.

Hope you are doing OK LowndesJ515; I understand you had a bit of your life invested there as well. Very hard for the workforce, usually they do far more for the groups than an ordinary wage earner does.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Nice to see the clarifications, Les; I expected that was the case. Too many items on a steam loco are high value, and security will forever be a problem, more so if it is known that a group is struggling. Portable components are too easily "lost". I recall not that long ago, a group in Victoria lost an excavator from their yard just after their closure was announced. Some of the parts of a steam loco make useful scrap metal, good for a hit or two for a druggie, but hugely expensive for us to replace.

Hope you are doing OK LowndesJ515; I understand you had a bit of your life invested there as well. Very hard for the workforce, usually they do far more for the groups than an ordinary wage earner does.
hbedriver
Can someone enlighten all of us enthusiasts as to how much ARHS Canberra is in the hole and what will be required to get them back on track, it is in the interests of all enthusiasts Australia wide to ensure that the operational experience and the acquired skills of this group are not lost to say nothing of the equipment that they have collected and restored.
I am a pensioner and I am prepared to make a contribution to assist getting this group back on track all that it needed is someone to collect the funds and direct them to possibly the liquidator.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Nice to see the clarifications, Les; I expected that was the case. Too many items on a steam loco are high value, and security will forever be a problem, more so if it is known that a group is struggling. Portable components are too easily "lost". I recall not that long ago, a group in Victoria lost an excavator from their yard just after their closure was announced. Some of the parts of a steam loco make useful scrap metal, good for a hit or two for a druggie, but hugely expensive for us to replace.

Hope you are doing OK LowndesJ515; I understand you had a bit of your life invested there as well. Very hard for the workforce, usually they do far more for the groups than an ordinary wage earner does.
Can someone enlighten all of us enthusiasts as to how much ARHS Canberra is in the hole and what will be required to get them back on track, it is in the interests of all enthusiasts Australia wide to ensure that the operational experience and the acquired skills of this group are not lost to say nothing of the equipment that they have collected and restored.
I am a pensioner and I am prepared to make a contribution to assist getting this group back on track all that it needed is someone to collect the funds and direct them to possibly the liquidator.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
Getting the funds to get them out of the hole is one issue.   Ensuring they have the viable business plans, capital for expansion/replacement/maintenance works etc so they don't climb out that hole to fall into a deeper one is also important.  This is what the administrator will be looking at.

Someone above mentioned their trips are running at a profit.  It's good news if they are but it is also necessary to ensure the 'profit' comes after an allowance for the maintenance and rollingstock on the train.  The direct costs of fuel, access paths, staff for the run are easily seen as the cost of a particular tour.  It contribution to the maintenance of all the equipment used on the run (even for carriages painting, new floor coverings and upholstery wear and tear, cleaning etc) that can often be forgotten and that doesn't include a provision for the locomotives next major overhaul!  It's these hidden costs that can catch you out and yes each trip an organisation ran made a profit but the organisation can still lose millions.

It's not just a problem for rail - heritage/touritst or commmercial operator, other capital intensive projects have similar problems/issues
  a6et Minister for Railways

Getting the funds to get them out of the hole is one issue.   Ensuring they have the viable business plans, capital for expansion/replacement/maintenance works etc so they don't climb out that hole to fall into a deeper one is also important.  This is what the administrator will be looking at.

Someone above mentioned their trips are running at a profit.  It's good news if they are but it is also necessary to ensure the 'profit' comes after an allowance for the maintenance and rollingstock on the train.  The direct costs of fuel, access paths, staff for the run are easily seen as the cost of a particular tour.  It contribution to the maintenance of all the equipment used on the run (even for carriages painting, new floor coverings and upholstery wear and tear, cleaning etc) that can often be forgotten and that doesn't include a provision for the locomotives next major overhaul!  It's these hidden costs that can catch you out and yes each trip an organisation ran made a profit but the organisation can still lose millions.

It's not just a problem for rail - heritage/touritst or commmercial operator, other capital intensive projects have similar problems/issues
HardWorkingMan
As I have said several times, a big issue with/for preservation societies is the distance that they are from the money making resource base, that generally being Sydney.  The distance that even Thrilmere has to run to and from Sydney as empty trains before starting a revenue earner, eve back to their home base has costs such as track access for 80k's both ways when empty.
ARHS Canberra has the travel distance of 321K/s unless it has paying customers. Both are big costs and more so for a garratt.

The shuttle trips that were carried out by the garratt paid up money but they still had non revenue components in the itinerary, add the running time test in and more non revenue costs have to be covered.  Thing is that there is no way those costs cannot not be removed nor even reduced unless a change takes place, meaning having the operational fleet of locomotives and carriages stationed within the Sydney area.

The ideal location is the LES, and room needs to be made for them.   Realistically the only way for that to happen is for the government to make the LES available for that purpose, likewise to have the facility made suitable for the maintenance of the operating fleet as well.  

While it many not be seen as being ideal for the Canberra ARHS, it would certainly resolve a huge part of their costs when planing on trips, with the garratt being closer to where the revenue is to be made. The only time its different would be when their tours and the like are on the Southern areas, but at least there is a better chance of running a booked out train from Sydney to the Southern Highlands to start a program then from Canberra itself.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Nice to see the clarifications, Les; I expected that was the case. Too many items on a steam loco are high value, and security will forever be a problem, more so if it is known that a group is struggling. Portable components are too easily "lost". I recall not that long ago, a group in Victoria lost an excavator from their yard just after their closure was announced. Some of the parts of a steam loco make useful scrap metal, good for a hit or two for a druggie, but hugely expensive for us to replace.

Hope you are doing OK LowndesJ515; I understand you had a bit of your life invested there as well. Very hard for the workforce, usually they do far more for the groups than an ordinary wage earner does.
hbedriver
Thanks hbedriver. The staff are doing ok, everyone has been terminated now. It's the volunteers who we are feeling for right now, some have put their whole lives, heart and souls into the ARHS. Its very sad to see it come to this for them. A lot of people are lost right now. It was the volunteers who really kept it going, I couldn't work with a better team. To think back on what we have achieved this year is simply amazing. Some short notice on trips, everyone pulled together to get the job done from start to finish. Everyone knew their job and the operation ran as smoothly as can be. For that I can't thank them enough, it made my job so easy. If only we (staff and current council) had of known the full picture 12 months ago...

6029 and 3016 were put into dry storage today at Thirlmere. Hopefully the rest of the rollingstock is safe at Kingston. Volunteers and Ex Staff will be popping by randomly checking in on the depot over the coming weeks.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Getting the funds to get them out of the hole is one issue.   Ensuring they have the viable business plans, capital for expansion/replacement/maintenance works etc so they don't climb out that hole to fall into a deeper one is also important.  This is what the administrator will be looking at.

Someone above mentioned their trips are running at a profit.  It's good news if they are but it is also necessary to ensure the 'profit' comes after an allowance for the maintenance and rollingstock on the train.  The direct costs of fuel, access paths, staff for the run are easily seen as the cost of a particular tour.  It contribution to the maintenance of all the equipment used on the run (even for carriages painting, new floor coverings and upholstery wear and tear, cleaning etc) that can often be forgotten and that doesn't include a provision for the locomotives next major overhaul!  It's these hidden costs that can catch you out and yes each trip an organisation ran made a profit but the organisation can still lose millions.

It's not just a problem for rail - heritage/touritst or commmercial operator, other capital intensive projects have similar problems/issues
As I have said several times, a big issue with/for preservation societies is the distance that they are from the money making resource base, that generally being Sydney.  The distance that even Thrilmere has to run to and from Sydney as empty trains before starting a revenue earner, eve back to their home base has costs such as track access for 80k's both ways when empty.
ARHS Canberra has the travel distance of 321K/s unless it has paying customers. Both are big costs and more so for a garratt.

The shuttle trips that were carried out by the garratt paid up money but they still had non revenue components in the itinerary, add the running time test in and more non revenue costs have to be covered.  Thing is that there is no way those costs cannot not be removed nor even reduced unless a change takes place, meaning having the operational fleet of locomotives and carriages stationed within the Sydney area.

The ideal location is the LES, and room needs to be made for them.   Realistically the only way for that to happen is for the government to make the LES available for that purpose, likewise to have the facility made suitable for the maintenance of the operating fleet as well.  

While it many not be seen as being ideal for the Canberra ARHS, it would certainly resolve a huge part of their costs when planing on trips, with the garratt being closer to where the revenue is to be made. The only time its different would be when their tours and the like are on the Southern areas, but at least there is a better chance of running a booked out train from Sydney to the Southern Highlands to start a program then from Canberra itself.
a6et
Besides the maintenance costs back at the depot, can you tell us your thoughts on what it costs to run these trips you mention above? I'm interested to know.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Getting the funds to get them out of the hole is one issue.   Ensuring they have the viable business plans, capital for expansion/replacement/maintenance works etc so they don't climb out that hole to fall into a deeper one is also important.  This is what the administrator will be looking at.

Someone above mentioned their trips are running at a profit.  It's good news if they are but it is also necessary to ensure the 'profit' comes after an allowance for the maintenance and rollingstock on the train.  The direct costs of fuel, access paths, staff for the run are easily seen as the cost of a particular tour.  It contribution to the maintenance of all the equipment used on the run (even for carriages painting, new floor coverings and upholstery wear and tear, cleaning etc) that can often be forgotten and that doesn't include a provision for the locomotives next major overhaul!  It's these hidden costs that can catch you out and yes each trip an organisation ran made a profit but the organisation can still lose millions.

It's not just a problem for rail - heritage/touritst or commmercial operator, other capital intensive projects have similar problems/issues
As I have said several times, a big issue with/for preservation societies is the distance that they are from the money making resource base, that generally being Sydney.  The distance that even Thrilmere has to run to and from Sydney as empty trains before starting a revenue earner, eve back to their home base has costs such as track access for 80k's both ways when empty.
ARHS Canberra has the travel distance of 321K/s unless it has paying customers. Both are big costs and more so for a garratt.

The shuttle trips that were carried out by the garratt paid up money but they still had non revenue components in the itinerary, add the running time test in and more non revenue costs have to be covered.  Thing is that there is no way those costs cannot not be removed nor even reduced unless a change takes place, meaning having the operational fleet of locomotives and carriages stationed within the Sydney area.

The ideal location is the LES, and room needs to be made for them.   Realistically the only way for that to happen is for the government to make the LES available for that purpose, likewise to have the facility made suitable for the maintenance of the operating fleet as well.  

While it many not be seen as being ideal for the Canberra ARHS, it would certainly resolve a huge part of their costs when planing on trips, with the garratt being closer to where the revenue is to be made. The only time its different would be when their tours and the like are on the Southern areas, but at least there is a better chance of running a booked out train from Sydney to the Southern Highlands to start a program then from Canberra itself.
Besides the maintenance costs back at the depot, can you tell us your thoughts on what it costs to run these trips you mention above? I'm interested to know.
LowndesJ515
I have to admit to having no real idea on those costs others would be certainly better to bring that up.  I understand the loco crews are paid staff, so wages have to be considered for the 3 men in the cab. How many others are involved and are paid adds to that.
The track access fees also have to be paid, other items such as oil and water need to be considered. One of the biggest costs is coal. I have read different costings on that and based on a full tender of coal, being 18tons, with quality coal of the steaming variety likely costing around $100.00 tonne, you can see the cost there alone. My thinking say just on the Gosford shuttles the other weekend including the run from Sydney to Gosford, the time trial and then the 2 day shuttles and back to Sydney would have taken at least 2 bunker loads somewhere then in the vicinity of say 34tonnes as safe measure. Lets not also forget the diesels and crewing that is needed as well.

The cost is huge and as I have read a couple of statements the museum have said they made money on the Gosford and the Illawarra shuttles which is great and shows the crowd pulling ability of it.  I would also believe that other steam also has crowd appeals especially when the programs run are well promoted and the public interest is captured.

When you consider the costs that was also likely part of the shuttles that included the running to and from Canberra at the conclusion of the trips, I assume the garratt stayed in Sydney or somewhere and not run back to Canberra in between, as that would add more to the costs.  It does point out how much better it would be to have the operating engine fleet and carriages stabled at the likes of the LES and/or space made available over at the front end carriage shed that still has items stored there.

Therein lies something for THNSW to work on with the government to make value calls on what items are of heritage value in both static and operational capacity, and make the allowances for where they are best based at to serve their purposes.

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