Sprinter catches fire in Seymour 2nd December 2016

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
a V/line sprinter caught fire at Seymour yesterday. A fault in the electrical cabinet I thought to have been the cause.

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  Duncs Chief Commissioner

a V/line sprinter caught fire at Seymour yesterday. A fault in the electrical cabinet I thought to have been the cause.
bevans
Unusual. Sprinters are very reliable  and well constructed.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

a V/line sprinter caught fire at Seymour yesterday. A fault in the electrical cabinet I thought to have been the cause.
"bevans"


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/vline-train-catches-fire-at-seymour-train-station/news-story/8066ff4197582e9e76641bddf3a295ae

Sprinter  7012 was involved.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Drivers weren't happy. Which idiot rang for the CFA? Worse news, they reckon the thing can be fixed. Was transferred to South Dynon on 3rd Dec.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Drivers weren't happy. Which idiot rang for the CFA?
hbedriver

Train stops at station with smoke coming out and you're surprised someone called the fire brigade?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A photo of the damaged cabinet in 7012.

  Duncs Chief Commissioner

A photo of the damaged cabinet in 7012.

bevans

Messy, but fixable. How it happened needs to be thoroughly investigated. It could just be a one off incident, or else something that could "potentially" affect the entire Sprinter fleet. As they are all roughly the same age.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Seeing the damage, I'm not surprised somebody called for the Fire Brigade. With damage like that, and a lot of surfaces being plastics and metals, there would have been considerable smoke.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Drivers weren't happy. Which idiot rang for the CFA? Worse news, they reckon the thing can be fixed. Was transferred to South Dynon on 3rd Dec.
"hbedriver"


I do not really understand, its not at all clear, one can safely assume the drivers are/were extremely frustrated at the final result.Can you say what SHOULD have occurred please.

The only real way to tackle this type of fire is CO2 extinguishers, they being most suited to electrical fires and do little colateral damage. I think you will find most CFA tankers though do not carry Such extinguishers of a suitable size.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner


Messy, but fixable. How it happened needs to be thoroughly investigated. It could just be a one off incident, or else something that could "potentially" affect the entire Sprinter fleet. As they are all roughly the same age.
"Duncs"


Industrial electrics are extremely reliable usually and its EXTREMELY rare for something in such an installation to initiate a fire. From my experience from 30 years as a technician looking after such equipment the most likely item is a faulty terminal getting hot and igniting the surrounding insulation. One though can usually pick this up well before it gets out of the cabinet.

The correct procedure would to shut off ALL power including isolating any battery systems as soon as possible, this will usually stop the problem. If it needs extinuishing  a CO2 extinguisher would be most suitable. Dry powder extinguishers are also VERY effective, they though leave an AWFULL mess behind.

In my 30 years as a technician and a fire fighter (CFA rural) I only saw 2 such incidents.

woodford
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I would have thought that the safety of personnel and the public would come first. A train can always be replaced
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I would have thought that the safety of personnel and the public would come first. A train can always be replaced
"trainbrain"


The person on the spot in something like this has to make a judgement call, while safety of everyone is paramount, a hurried evacuation also comes with some risk. As stated there;s usually time to consider the issue as the cabinet will putting out an electrical burning smell. Most systems also have the ability easily isolate circuits in such occasions.

As I understand it, in Sprinters one can shut down the entire 240volt AC system and still be able to make it to the next station on the vehicles batteries powering any essential items..

woodford
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I would have thought that the safety of personnel and the public would come first. A train can always be replaced


The person on the spot in something like this has to make a judgement call, while safety of everyone is paramount, a hurried evacuation also comes with some risk. As stated there;s usually time to consider the issue as the cabinet will putting out an electrical burning smell. Most systems also have the ability easily isolate circuits in such occasions.

As I understand it, in Sprinters one can shut down the entire 240volt AC system and still be able to make it to the next station on the vehicles batteries powering any essential items..

woodford
woodford
I wonder if the train was already at the platform when the fire broke out. Or whether it was approaching the platform?
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong, VIC
I believe it was empty and sitting at Seymour platform between services. No crew on board it seems either.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I believe it was empty and sitting at Seymour platform between services. No crew on board it seems either.
"Contrillion"


That would be my guess. otherwise it would have been caught well before much damage was done.
A problem I have found here is there is apparently NO ONE a member of the general public can report a technical problem with items such as this, so all one can do is call the usual emergence services if the issue is serious.

Sometime back one summer I was travelling down to Melbourne, the leading Sprinter we were on the front muffler had recieved a serious hit and had opened a hole blowing raw exhaust out onto the track, and this was on a total fire ban day. I could not find anyone that cared at all about the issue.

woodford
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Which is typical of too many people these days
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Drivers weren't happy. Which idiot rang for the CFA? Worse news, they reckon the thing can be fixed. Was transferred to South Dynon on 3rd Dec.


I do not really understand, its not at all clear, one can safely assume the drivers are/were extremely frustrated at the final result.Can you say what SHOULD have occurred please.

The only real way to tackle this type of fire is CO2 extinguishers, they being most suited to electrical fires and do little colateral damage. I think you will find most CFA tankers though do not carry Such extinguishers of a suitable size.

woodford
woodford
What type of fire extinguishers do the sprinters have on board ?

ABE extinguisher power Is highly corrosive to electrical equipment and makes a major mess.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
What type of fire extinguishers do the sprinters have on board ?
Nightfire
Probably not self-activating ones.  It's stated that there was no one on board when the fire started.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

The CFA had huge trouble putting the fire out, including cutting two holes in the roof to access it all. I doubt any type of fire extinguisher used by on-train staff would do as well as those guys did (that's assuming that you think putting the fire out was a good thing; some debate about that as well!)

I am not a fan of Sprinters. Not many drivers are. Only one written off so far, although they did try hard at Bostock Weir some years ago after hitting a car illegally on tracks, the wretched thing there derailed and turned 180 degrees but was still fixed.

Appears most wiring behind the driver's seat is damaged, possibility that a full re-wiring is needed. That's assuming the brake controller (a unique type Davies and Metcalfe job) is OK, also that there is no structural deformation that cannot be readily welded back to specification. Given the stench, I doubt the seats and passenger fittings could be re-used. It might be deemed easier to write it off, making use of spare parts thus released.

Cause appears to be an electrical fault, no doubt there will be more to come.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Drivers weren't happy. Which idiot rang for the CFA? Worse news, they reckon the thing can be fixed. Was transferred to South Dynon on 3rd Dec.
hbedriver
Drivers seldom seem to be happy, what was the alternative?

Surely the fire brigade is the appropriate response agency?
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Cause appears to be an electrical fault, no doubt there will be more to come.
hbedriver
Time for a refurbishment? A rewiring of the relatively small fleet (If the problem is pervasive) may's well incorporate renewing other aspects.
  woodford Chief Commissioner



Cause appears to be an electrical fault, no doubt there will be more to come.
hbedriver

Over heating of an electrical terminal thats carrying a significant current for its size is a rare but known issue and can happen in nearly any installaion, Newer installations being somewhat more prone due to smaller size for a given current carrying capacity.

I personally found it was  good idea to check all such terminals in an installation every 4 or 5 years this allows one to catch any terminal thats has reduced clamping pressure.

Such an issue is no reason to condem a particular fleet, it can happen in any installation.

It would probably be a good idea to consider fitting some kind of smoke or fume alarm in any equipment cabinet as damage can be extensive if the item is unattended and powered for any lengths of time.

woodford
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic


Cause appears to be an electrical fault, no doubt there will be more to come.
Over heating of an electrical terminal thats carrying a significant current for its size is a rare but known issue and can happen in nearly any installaion, Newer installations being somewhat more prone due to smaller size for a given current carrying capacity.

I personally found it was  good idea to check all such terminals in an installation every 4 or 5 years this allows one to catch any terminal thats has reduced clamping pressure.
woodford
A standard maintenance test for water and sewer pump sets I've been involved with is to use a digital laser thermometer to check the temp of relays, electrical connections, and anything else that's likely to fail by heat. It doesn't take long for an installation to warm up enough to test and a competent tester will pick up potential issues easily. Cheap and quick insurance.

Rick
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
All of the "should have" and "could have" - what wonderful exhibitions of hindsight.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

All of the "should have" and "could have" - what wonderful exhibitions of hindsight.
"Valvegear"


Looking back on past actions and learning from the mistakes made is THE corner stone of good engineering. From what has been said in these pages NOT doing this is one of VLine's managements most serious problems.

woodford

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