Hay/george sts intersection

 
  Matthew Chief Train Controller


It is more then just track construction going on throughout the whole of George street with significant infrastructure and utilities renewal also taking place at the same time.
simstrain


There shouldn't be any services to need renewing under the existing LR track. They could have inserted the points, frog and the H crossing relatively quickly and re-opened the line and dealt with the 'new' work on a more relaxed timetable without continuing to affect the existing line.

The current work down at Hay St seems to include not only alterations to drainage, but the alteration of a major looking gas main. However, both these items are NOT under the path of the existing track but off to the side.

In general, along George Street, the major pre-work is utility location, identification and in some cases relocation. From Park Street to towards the Quay, where they have been 'mucking about' for over a year now, the major work appears to the construction of two large underground chambers per block under the future path of the tracks. Having seen how these are located (right under the future track) and their size, I suspect these undertrack chambers will hold the control and switching equipment for the APS rail, each chamber supplying about half a block of APS.

Each APS segment is about 2 to 3 metres long and individually switched as the tram passes over it. That's a LOT of control and switchgear. Water ingress into the on track switches has been an issue in Bordeaux. The 'Tropicalization' APS probably meant the moving of these items from small boxed embedded in the road next to each segment to larger switch rooms that will be easier to keep dry.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner


It is more then just track construction going on throughout the whole of George street with significant infrastructure and utilities renewal also taking place at the same time.

There shouldn't be any services to need renewing under the existing LR track. They could have inserted the points, frog and the H crossing relatively quickly and re-opened the line and dealt with the 'new' work on a more relaxed timetable without continuing to affect the existing line.

The current work down at Hay St seems to include not only alterations to drainage, but the alteration of a major looking gas main. However, both these items are NOT under the path of the existing track but off to the side.

In general, along George Street, the major pre-work is utility location, identification and in some cases relocation. From Park Street to towards the Quay, where they have been 'mucking about' for over a year now, the major work appears to the construction of two large underground chambers per block under the future path of the tracks. Having seen how these are located (right under the future track) and their size, I suspect these undertrack chambers will hold the control and switching equipment for the APS rail, each chamber supplying about half a block of APS.

Each APS segment is about 2 to 3 metres long and individually switched as the tram passes over it. That's a LOT of control and switchgear. Water ingress into the on track switches has been an issue in Bordeaux. The 'Tropicalization' APS probably meant the moving of these items from small boxed embedded in the road next to each segment to larger switch rooms that will be easier to keep dry.
Matthew

Except you are forgetting that while the road is being ripped up that items such as the NBN, as well as new drainage, sewerage, gas, electricity will be done as well with this project to handle the CBD's projected growth.
  Matthew Chief Train Controller



Except you are forgetting that while the road is being ripped up that items such as the NBN, as well as new drainage, sewerage, gas, electricity will be done as well with this project to handle the CBD's projected growth.
simstrain


There is no NBN in the CBD. It is already well serviced by optical cables from multiple providers. Part of the service location problem was just how many separate entities had stuff down there. However, comms and power are largely under the footpaths, not the roads.

Except for Hay St I've not seen any gas pipes. Just south of Hay St they ARE relocating a gas main deeper.
I've not seen new water or sewer pipes in the stockpiles. Very little comms either. Most of the supplies about are for new stormwater pipes. And ensuring water flows away from the APS equipped track will be very important.

In theory, no services should have needed need relocating, if they do, they were not compliant with the appropriate standards for being under a trafficable roadway in the first place. (Although the depth of cover rules are often ignored).
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

To many posts to go through at the moment, but

See this PDF link here: (Oh rats, the link doesn't work)
Vehicle is to be manufacturer’s “standard” vehicle as far as possible
• Designed and built to internationally recognised standards, including for crashworthiness
  – EN 15227 – Crashworthiness requirements for railway vehicle bodies
  – T MU RS 01000 ST – Structural integrity and crashworthiness of passenger rolling stock

Key requirements
  • – Track gauge 1435mm
  • – 100% low floor
  • – Minimum 23.2% seated to total capacity at AW3 loading (4 pax per m2)
  • – Traction power at 750V DC, including ability to operate overhead wire-free
  • – Driving cabs at both ends
  • – Able to operate on IWLR
  • – Comply with Disability Discrimination Act and DSAPT

PAGE 9
Interchangeability / interoperability
• No plans at this stage to operate IWLR and CSELR as an integrated service
   – Passenger interchange at Chinatown / Capitol Square
• Citadis vehicles operating on CSELR must be able to transit IWLR to Lilyfield Depot for maintenance
  – Not required to be in revenue service
• Urbos 3 vehicles operating on IWLR must be able to cross CSELR at George Street
   – Must be recoverable from CSELR in event of mis-routing
Citadis and Urbos 3 vehicles must be able to be coupled to “rescue” each other
Page 8 of the PDF in the link
BUT THEN SEE PAGE 10 OF THAT PDF LINK FOR THE DIFFERENT FIGURES FOR VARIOUS STUFF, SUCH AS WHEEL PROFILES, ETC.

What idiot government would have incompatible tram tracks . . . oh wait this is NSW!
(At least Sydney, North Sydney, Manly, etc, were able to use the same trams)
  mandonov Station Staff


There is no NBN in the CBD. It is already well serviced by optical cables from multiple providers. Part of the service location problem was just how many separate entities had stuff down there. However, comms and power are largely under the footpaths, not the roads.

Except for Hay St I've not seen any gas pipes. Just south of Hay St they ARE relocating a gas main deeper.
I've not seen new water or sewer pipes in the stockpiles. Very little comms either. Most of the supplies about are for new stormwater pipes. And ensuring water flows away from the APS equipped track will be very important.

In theory, no services should have needed need relocating, if they do, they were not compliant with the appropriate standards for being under a trafficable roadway in the first place. (Although the depth of cover rules are often ignored).
Matthew
I believe the main reason for the extended shutdown is the redevelopment of the Central LR platform. It's currently surrounded by fencing for an upgrade to a higher platform and reorganised Opal poles.
  edison Chief Commissioner

Some very interesting, amazing and downright ridiculous stuff going on here (TfNSW, not RP).
But can anyone answer my original question that started this thread, i.e. which way will the connecting curves go at HAY/GEORGE corner?

Cheers,
Edison
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW

But can anyone answer my original question that started this thread, i.e. which way will the connecting curves go at HAY/GEORGE corner?
edison


One guess should get you that answer - empty cars from Randwick to Rozelle or vv would have leave one sensible answer, but the way things are going....
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW

And I thought things were bad in SA with choosing a narrower tram body profile to Melbourne.
don_dunstan

Have you seen the tender documents for the latest Adelaide extensions? They make interesting reading on that subject. A summary will be published in the February 'Transit Australia'
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud

And I thought things were bad in SA with choosing a narrower tram body profile to Melbourne.
Have you seen the tender documents for the latest Adelaide extensions? They make interesting reading on that subject. A summary will be published in the February 'Transit Australia'
Tonymercury
Can you give me a synopsis?

As I understand it they are not that uncommon because a few European cities have the same dimensions. From a user perspective I hope they go with more Citadis, they're much more comfortable than the original purchase of Flexities.
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW

Can you give me a synopsis?
don_dunstan

Probably sometime in February unless some kind soul takes mercy on you.

That's interesting nothing about recent Adelaide events seems to have been posted as yet.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
And welcome back Tonymercury. LTNS.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Probably sometime in February unless some kind soul takes mercy on you.

That's interesting nothing about recent Adelaide events seems to have been posted as yet.
Tonymercury
Okay, thank-you. No, there hasn't been much analysis on the internet about the expansion yet apart from the actual announcement.

Yes, it's all go here in the Festival State - not sure where the money is coming from considering we don't have the rivers of Stamp Duty money like they do in the eastern states but there you go. As opposed to Sydney, Adelaide does have Colonel Light's wonderful wide boulevards that lends itself well to the re-establishment of a tram network so its good to see some progress.
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
And welcome back Tonymercury. LTNS.
mikesyd

Ta,

I only mainly read these days, but just couldn't help myself.

The typing is getting worse. and worse.
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
No, there hasn't been much analysis on the internet about the expansion yet apart from the actual announcement.
don_dunstan

I had thought that the Grand Union might have generated some excitement.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
junction arrangement from the final EIS

  Laxor Beginner

Well that would make a whole lot more sense than this.

I
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

Well that would make a whole lot more sense than this.

I
Laxor

Work on the ground so far makes it look like this version is what's happening. The problem with the south facing curves lack of space as the existing track is not centred in Hay St, making it very hard to turn into George St south and keep within the generous minimum radius required by modern multi-articulated trams.

We will know shortly - they have started to rebuild the IWLR track already - the hardware may start going in this week.

As the Citadis will have traction batteries, I wonder if they will 'wire' these curves ?. It won't strictly be needed for the connection to serve its purpose.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
And the one from the Council DA:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21861844@N05/32044312932/in/dateposted-public/

In this version (as well as the one from the EIS), the IWLR is moved over to accommodate the curve to the south.
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

And the one from the Council DA:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21861844@N05/32044312932/in/dateposted-public/

In this version (as well as the one from the EIS), the IWLR is moved over to accommodate the curve to the south.
arctic

This one isn't accurate either. They have not moved the Capital Square LR stop north. On the other side of the intersection alongside the bank branch, the new track formation is going right back where it was before, it hasn't moved towards the centre of Hay St.

There is also a span pole on the corner next to the bank right in the way of a south curve. They have taken no steps to remove it or the footpath, whereas extensive excavation has happened where the north curves will go.

It looking to me like there will only be one set of connecting curves, facing north. Depot to maintenance centre moves will have to reverse in George Street somewhere.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
No, there hasn't been much analysis on the internet about the expansion yet apart from the actual announcement.

I had thought that the Grand Union might have generated some excitement.
Tonymercury
True. Given it will form the basis of the re-establishment of a multi-line network it will be great to see it go in -
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

No, there hasn't been much analysis on the internet about the expansion yet apart from the actual announcement.

I had thought that the Grand Union might have generated some excitement.
True. Given it will form the basis of the re-establishment of a multi-line network it will be great to see it go in -
don_dunstan
At best a semi-grand junction but it will be good to see after the absence of anything like it in Sydney since the demise of trams.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

No, there hasn't been much analysis on the internet about the expansion yet apart from the actual announcement.

I had thought that the Grand Union might have generated some excitement.
True. Given it will form the basis of the re-establishment of a multi-line network it will be great to see it go in -
At best a semi-grand junction but it will be good to see after the absence of anything like it in Sydney since the demise of trams.
nswtrains
The grand union is in Adelaide.
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

Given the evidence on the ground, there will be one set of curves, from the west to the north. There isn't space to put in a west to south curve - or not one that will take a modern multi-artic tram.

The existing track is showing no signs of being moved north to accommodate a south cord as some of the EIS planning documents indicated.




The existing Capitol Square LR stop is largely untouched. They dug (and filled) a couple of holes in the '6ft'.



George Street - the end of the existing track is poking out just near the elbow of the excavator. There is one lane of traffic on the other side of the barrier.








The black formwork off the end of the yellow form is probably where the points will start.
Also of note are the large concrete blocks being used to hold the CDM-QTrack brackets in position.

The stuff on the top of the rails is simply a cover - presumably to keep concrete out of the groove during the pour.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

In these images it doesn't even look like there is a northbound connection yet either.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

If you look at that intersection on google earth you will see there is plenty of room for turns in both directions. Footpaths come out quite a lot here and the current light rail is already heading in the direction as noted in the plans. I don't share your issues at all with how the connection will be made Matthew.

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