3801 Boiler

 
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I have just received my January 17 copy of Roundhouse. It contains nearly 6 pages of text and 16 photographs of the boiler repair. It is a fairly comprehensive report on the progress and decisions made in relation to this work. Of interest is the decision to revert to a riveted firebox so the boiler, when complete, will be 'like new'. I think in the light of this information, and that contained in the previous issue, the comments made in relation to secrecy of the boiler overhaul would have to be described as inaccurate.

Also in the same issue are reports on progress of several other steam loco repair works. All in some detail and with photographs.

I think the Transport Heritage NSW have done as well as is possible with keeping members aware of what is happening.
"neillfarmer"

I am very pleased to hear this. I will be interested to read the article, particularly because it will be authoritative and accurate.
A plea to all enthusiasts - read what's written; accept that there's still some time to go; don't speculate and spread rumours, just relax and enjoy the feeling of anticipation about the loco's return.

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  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
I have a slightly different take on reporting progress on Government funded projects, especially something that has the profile and wider public interest of 3801 arguably one of Australia's most iconic steam locomotives.

The Transport Heritage NSW website on its About Us mentions in part:

"Funding Deed with Transport for NSW

THNSW receives funds from the NSW Government under a Funding Deed with Transport for NSW so that it can carry out its functions and responsibilities.

THNSW provides regular reports to Transport for NSW to make sure funds are properly accounted for and appropriately spent. All projects or works will be planned, costed, approved and project managed.

The Funding Deed aims to ensure that THNSW has the independence to determine its own funding priorities and the ability to pursue appropriate opportunities to generate further revenue. The Deed ensures that THNSW provides value for money for the people of NSW".

I am assuming on that basis this organization in receiving the regular reports for the 3801 Restoration chose to then (rightly so and thank you very much) to publish an update with photos of 3801's boiler on its website.   It's now approaching February 2017 roughly 4 months since that update was published, so I'm assuming that it will have received a further update and would publish that on its website!!!

Sure many of us may not be members and therefore not necessarily privy to the more minute details of what goes on, but in the public interest I think there is an obligation to provide updates even if they are purely high level PR style updates!!!
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I agree, the latest copy of Roundhouse, really does cover the 3801 Boiler rebuild in detail, from what I also read, the firm in question really does have a good reputation for these type of things as well, (makes you wonder why they were never "scoped out" to begin with) assuming they were around back then, and did the same sort of thing
Kind Regards
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
On a more amusing note was one rumour monger. He rang me, and gleefully said, " I hear rumours that (loco) has failed its roadworthy exam." He was not amused  when I congratulated him on being a genuine fortune teller, because the roadworthy was scheduled for the following Wednesday.
Valvegear
So was he right? Did it fail? Smile
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
So was he right? Did it fail?
"apw5910"
Indeed it did. It was a standing joke every time that it would fail the first inspection. Grounds for failure would be things such as a hosebag support chain having a half twist in it, or fingerprints on a gauge glass. Whatever it was could be overcome in 1 or 2 minutes maximum, during which time the inspector and most of us had a cuppa, and one of our bods fixed the "problem." It was the ultimate game of "Trivial Pursuit".Laughing
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
YM-Mundrabilla
Here's the direct link http://puffingbilly.com.au/en/pb-news/blog/
It is regularly updated with more news being added about a variety of happenings in the workshop.

Another Good one here about the P2 in the UK being built by the same people who built Tornado https://www.p2steam.com/category/construction/
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
Here's the direct link http://puffingbilly.com.au/en/pb-news/blog/
It is regularly updated with more news being added about a variety of happenings in the workshop.

Another Good one here about the P2 in the UK being built by the same people who built Tornado https://www.p2steam.com/category/construction/
NSWGR 3827
Thanks 3827 for the P2 site. Much further advanced than I had imagined.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
Here's the direct link http://puffingbilly.com.au/en/pb-news/blog/
It is regularly updated with more news being added about a variety of happenings in the workshop.

Another Good one here about the P2 in the UK being built by the same people who built Tornado https://www.p2steam.com/category/construction/
Thanks 3827 for the P2 site. Much further advanced than I had imagined.
YM-Mundrabilla

I just checked the P2 site myself.

The Brits can do things well.
Their CAD drawings are so good that the boiler they obtained from Meiningen  for "Tornado" not only fitted the frame designed for it but has worked so well that they are buying an exact replica for "Prince of Wales".

They are already talking about building a V4 2-6-2 and a V3 2-6-2 Tank to follow  the P2.

Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame.

That problem won't happen again and the contractor should be able to repair the current boiler without too much trouble.

The welded inner firebox from 1986 did not allow the original stay pattern to be used and the boiler was limited to 210 psi as a result. Reverting to the original design of inner firebox will allow the pressure to be restored to 245 psi.

Peter
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame.

That problem won't happen again and the contractor should be able to repair the current boiler without too much trouble.
M636C
You really have to ask why that wasn't done ten years ago.

They are pressing new boiler plates, which I recall wasn't considered an option back in the eighties. Hope all goes well...
  Shed_Rat Train Controller

Location: 'A' Shop - Swindon Works

Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame.
M636C
Incorrect, the German boiler was designed & constructed under the supervision of the Office of Rail Heritage (ORH). The ORH was shut down in 2013 & no staff involved in the 3801 boiler were transferred over to Transport Heritage NSW.

The repair works to the riveted boiler are being carried out under the supervision of Transport Heritage NSW.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
YM-Mundrabilla
Cannot see much difference between what you profess is good info from PB and the NSW Roundhouse article on boiler Tab 3819. I think you are being very precious. You can purchase Roundhouse in the appropriate outlets, even in Victoria. I conducted a business in Victoria for a number of years and I found the general attitude of most Victorians to be somewhat painful. Get over it, Victoria is no longer the leading state in the Commonwealth.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I conducted a business in Victoria for a number of years and I found the general attitude of most Victorians to be somewhat painful.
"nswtrains"
A sweeping and pretty meaningless statement. What on earth is "the general attitude"? And, "somewhat painful" - what does that actually mean?
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Let's nip the VIc and NSW attitute in the bud, I will get heavey handed if itcontinues, including deeleting existing post if need be.

Do not bait fellow Australians please.


You have been warned.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
Cannot see much difference between what you profess is good info from PB and the NSW Roundhouse article on boiler Tab 3819. I think you are being very precious. You can purchase Roundhouse in the appropriate outlets, even in Victoria. I conducted a business in Victoria for a number of years and I found the general attitude of most Victorians to be somewhat painful. Get over it, Victoria is no longer the leading state in the Commonwealth.
nswtrains
The difference being that the Puffing Billy (and the British P2) info is available to everyone and anyone worldwide with access to the internet whereas the 3801 stuff is not.
  BigBrother Beginner

Makes an interesting comparison between the attitudes of NSW and 3801 and the Victorian Puffing Billy outlook here:
https://Railpage.com.au/news/s/ng-g-update-rounding-out-2016
Here's the direct link http://puffingbilly.com.au/en/pb-news/blog/
It is regularly updated with more news being added about a variety of happenings in the workshop.

Another Good one here about the P2 in the UK being built by the same people who built Tornado https://www.p2steam.com/category/construction/
Thanks 3827 for the P2 site. Much further advanced than I had imagined.

I just checked the P2 site myself.

The Brits can do things well.
Their CAD drawings are so good that the boiler they obtained from Meiningen  for "Tornado" not only fitted the frame designed for it but has worked so well that they are buying an exact replica for "Prince of Wales".

They are already talking about building a V4 2-6-2 and a V3 2-6-2 Tank to follow  the P2.

Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame.

That problem won't happen again and the contractor should be able to repair the current boiler without too much trouble.

The welded inner firebox from 1986 did not allow the original stay pattern to be used and the boiler was limited to 210 psi as a result. Reverting to the original design of inner firebox will allow the pressure to be restored to 245 psi.

Peter
M636C
"Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame"

Majorly incorrect buddy. The current team at THNSW had no involvement in the government balls up that was the German boiler. They hold no responsibility and shouldn't have to take the blame for the former ORH's mistakes. I suggest you check your sources and make sure they are fact before publicly stating it as the truth.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone


Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame.

That problem won't happen again and the contractor should be able to repair the current boiler without too much trouble.



Peter"Back in NSW, the old boiler is being overhauled to the instructions of the same people who approved the drawings that resulted in a boiler that didn't fit the frame"

Majorly incorrect buddy. The current team at THNSW had no involvement in the government balls up that was the German boiler. They hold no responsibility and shouldn't have to take the blame for the former ORH's mistakes. I suggest you check your sources and make sure they are fact before publicly stating it as the truth.
Only a few posts above, Valvegear very wisely said;
"I am very pleased to hear this. I will be interested to read the article, particularly because it will be authoritative and accurate.
A plea to all enthusiasts - read what's written; accept that there's still some time to go; don't speculate and spread rumours, just relax and enjoy the feeling of anticipation about the loco's return."
And already we have people speculating and spreading gossip!

If you don't know, if you don't have evidence, don't say it.

It's simple and will make you no less of a human being.
  megahertz Station Staff

There is an update with an extract from "Roundhouse" on the Transport Heritage NSW website (https://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/news). Direct link to the update.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Well thank you to those who have sourced the article and placed it on this site.  It's a great read, informative and brings a very interested audience up to speed.   Just as I suggested in my post it would.

And guess what it didn't hurt anybody or anything to share the information.  In fact what its done in my case is to retain my interest in the project and wish all those involved every success with it.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Well thank you to those who have sourced the article and placed it on this site.  It's a great read, informative and brings a very interested audience up to speed.   Just as I suggested in my post it would.

And guess what it didn't hurt anybody or anything to share the information.  In fact what its done in my case is to retain my interest in the project and wish all those involved every success with it.
Trainplanner
I cannot help but to compare the restoration of 3801 with a number of other projects, Namely Puffing Billy's NGG 16 Beyer Garrat, Union Pacific's 4014 Big Boy Mallet and in different field Donald Cambells K7 Bluebird hydroplane. All three have webs sites with updates at relatively long intervals, NGG16 and K7's updates are blog posts, quite detailed with good photos, where as 4014's are a combination of short videos and apparently regular work shop open days.

K7's crew have done an interesting money raising exercise they have arranged for a lot of the restoration work to be proffesionally filmed without cost to them (ie the filming, editing and DVD production is donated to the project) and the crew sell the DVD,s, While there are relatively expensive, they are a mass of interesting detail and ALL funds raised go directly to the boat. The object being to restore K7 back to the condition it was in the morning of the day Donald was killed. The Cambell family says they would like the boat to do at least 1 more 100mph run, ie the boats being restored back to operational condition.

woodford
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
There is an update with an extract from "Roundhouse" on the Transport Heritage NSW website (https://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/news). Direct link to the update.
megahertz
Thanks Megahertz.
This is perhaps the most logical post on this thread in a long time and in providing the link to the information on 3801's boiler certainly flies in the face of the secrecy, arrogance and downright rudeness displayed by some other posters.
Thank you for posting it.Smile
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Well thank you to those who have sourced the article and placed it on this site.  It's a great read, informative and brings a very interested audience up to speed.   Just as I suggested in my post it would.

And guess what it didn't hurt anybody or anything to share the information.  In fact what its done in my case is to retain my interest in the project and wish all those involved every success with it.
Trainplanner
Absolutely! Could not agree more.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
I agree Woodford.   In this day and age of instant media, social networking etc, etc many people have either forgotten or simply just don't understand the power of a good news story like restoration of a relatively famous locomotive or the arrival into port of a new cruise liner on the wider community.

The recent return to service of Flying Scotsman notwithstanding that it is one of the famous steam locomotives in the world attracted enormous public and media interest.   The event was so successful in terms of wider public interest that Network Rail had to actually suspend train services on the day in question because of concerns about the number of people attracted to stations, crossings etc.

Let's put aside for the moment stuff around people accessing the track etc (a critical safety issue absolutely), but just for this thread focus on what the "star" quality things like famous steam locomotives etc can draw.   As they say you wouldn't be able to afford the advertising budget to try and promote the equivalent level of enormous public interest.

It was the same in 2015 when the Norfolk and Western J611 returned to mainline service and in its own way the level of public interest when 6029 re-entered service.

I'm sure there can be a huge public response created when 3801 actually returns to operation and that's a good thing for encouraging Governments etc to support these projects and set up entities to ensure these things can continue.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I agree Woodford.   In this day and age of instant media, social networking etc, etc many people have either forgotten or simply just don't understand the power of a good news story like restoration of a relatively famous locomotive or the arrival into port of a new cruise liner on the wider community.

The recent return to service of Flying Scotsman notwithstanding that it is one of the famous steam locomotives in the world attracted enormous public and media interest.   The event was so successful in terms of wider public interest that Network Rail had to actually suspend train services on the day in question because of concerns about the number of people attracted to stations, crossings etc.

Let's put aside for the moment stuff around people accessing the track etc (a critical safety issue absolutely), but just for this thread focus on what the "star" quality things like famous steam locomotives etc can draw.   As they say you wouldn't be able to afford the advertising budget to try and promote the equivalent level of enormous public interest.

It was the same in 2015 when the Norfolk and Western J611 returned to mainline service and in its own way the level of public interest when 6029 re-entered service.

I'm sure there can be a huge public response created when 3801 actually returns to operation and that's a good thing for encouraging Governments etc to support these projects and set up entities to ensure these things can continue.
Trainplanner
There was extensive coverage also on the Tornado steam loco, although most of the coverage was the usual media mis-information relating to steam. For instance, first steam on British rails in 50 years.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
You're sure right nswtrains.   This past weekend I've watched a few youtube clips of Tornado working "regularly" scheduled passenger trains on the Settle and Carlisle Line.   Attracted enormous media and public interest as passengers were able to purchase tickets at normal fares.   I recall V/Line doing this on school holidays between Melbourne and Geelong on some school holidays in relatively recent times.  (I think early 1990's).   Not to be confused of course with the former West Coast Railway team who had the franchise for the Melbourne - Warrnambool service and rostered R711 on Saturdays.   The R711 had received a number of enhancements adopted from work done in South Africa to improve the operating performance of steam traction.    I have more details but don't wish to stray from the subject of this thread.  Needless to say those "steam" events attracted enormous public interest!!!

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