Geelong rail expansion and electrification

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Geelong is second biggest city in Victoria and is growing quite rapidly. My question is whether it be nice to implement its own metropolitan rail network in the future. The problem here is to address the lack of jobs and businesses in Geelong. Geelong is quite a dead city (no offence) compared to Melbourne, maybe upgrading the transport could help out.

This is just a thought bubble, honestly don't think any of this will happen.
Electrify btw Geelong and Lara, becomes the Lara line
Electrify btw Geelong and Waurn Ponds and duplicate to Waurn Pond, become Waurn ponds line.
Reinstate the rail between South Geelong and Drysdale, becomes Drysdale line
New tracks between Marshall and Torquay, becomes Torquay line (serves Armstrong creek area)
There could be a possibility of light rail added to Geelong area as well.

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  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Why not continue the electrification to West Werribee or are you considering AC overhead?
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Why not continue the electrification to West Werribee or are you considering AC overhead?
x31
Assuming DC, that would give electrification all the way from SCS to Geelong.  The proposals for the Geelong area, although fanciful, would appear to be local suburban services, and could be run by suburban-type EMUs, but a through electric service from Melbourne may require new rolling stock.  It's possibly too far for ordinary Xtraps, Comengs or Siemens, and not much point in running V'locities under wires.  

Times change, as do populations and travel patterns, but don't forget that Geelong once had electric trams to its then suburbs.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Times change, as do populations and travel patterns, but don't forget that Geelong once had electric trams to its then suburbs.
Lad_Porter
So did Hobart, which is still 20% larger and is growing quicker. Heck, they don't even have freight trains anymore either.

Point is, any localised interurban heavy rail system will only be an extension of existing regional passenger services, such as what is arranged around Bendigo at the moment. Epsom to Kangaroo Flat? No worries, just catch a Melbourne train! Light rail is a bit different, but the case for it must be absolutely compelling.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Why not continue the electrification to West Werribee or are you considering AC overhead?
"X31"
I would sincerely hope not, otherwise we will be sentenced to an eventual replay of the fiasco that existed at Albury for decades - one system's trains couldn't run on the other other system. As Lad Porter has said, one assumes that electrification will get from Werribee to Geelong  at some time and we do not need to hear, "All change" at Geelong station.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Times change, as do populations and travel patterns, but don't forget that Geelong once had electric trams to its then suburbs.
Lad_Porter

History of trams in Australia http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Yes there will be potential to connect the electrified line from Lara and Melbourne, and run metro trains to Geelong but require more metro trains. But the main idea was to make it easier to get around Geelong using public transport and redevelop the city centre to increase employment there. It's to reduce the demand heading from Geelong to Melbourne to find jobs, and essentially become a city without being relying so much on Melbourne.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I essentially think the first stage of this style of operation is what has been slated for Bendigo.  Something must be done about the south west torquay and Drysdale (ultimately back to the coast). I am so seriously dumbfounded as to why this Drysdale service has not been rebuilt as yet.

Also mentioned in another thread here is the potential for train services from Geelong to Bannockburn. Would you include this route in your plan?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Are there busses that serve this sort of line pattern, and if yes, are they frequently congested?  If yes to both, then light rail might get a go.  If no, then id say more busses are the answer.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

I essentially think the first stage of this style of operation is what has been slated for Bendigo.  Something must be done about the south west torquay and Drysdale (ultimately back to the coast). I am so seriously dumbfounded as to why this Drysdale service has not been rebuilt as yet.

Also mentioned in another thread here is the potential for train services from Geelong to Bannockburn. Would you include this route in your plan?
bevans
Bendigo Metro is like this style of operation but the Geelong network can be vast and expanded easily. Yes I maybe consider from Geelong to Bannockburn but not much priority as the rest of the plan. Torquay and Drysdale rail links need to be completed.
Light rail in Geelong is a great idea in the city area, have no idea why there is no plan for this.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Are there busses that serve this sort of line pattern, and if yes, are they frequently congested?  If yes to both, then light rail might get a go.  If no, then id say more busses are the answer.
james.au

This is the bus network in Geelong very vast and frequencies most buses in peak time are 20 minute, some non peak buses can be up to 40-60 minutes. Light rail be configured where all the buses run in the centre core and inner suburbs of Geelong, light rail can be as frequent as every 5-10 minutes.

  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
In my opinion light rail could be considered to replace bus route 20 to the north terminating around the Ring Road and route 1 to the south terminating at Deakin University with possibly an extension up Rossack Drive and further south through Armstrong Creek to Torquay. Apart from the east (which could be covered by extension of heavy rail from South Geelong to Drysdale) they would be the only densely populated areas that could support such service.

However, we live in the real world and going by G:Link on the Gold Coast this would be at least a $3.5b project that would never get off the ground.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Bendigo Metro is like this style of operation but the Geelong network can be vast and expanded easily. Yes I maybe consider from Geelong to Bannockburn but not much priority as the rest of the plan. Torquay and Drysdale rail links need to be completed.
Light rail in Geelong is a great idea in the city area, have no idea why there is no plan for this.
James974

What frequency are you considering for the metro services?
  Tony M. Locomotive Fireman

The real problem with any kind of metropolitan rail network in Geelong as it stands is that none of the train stations are within walking distance of anywhere that Geelong people want to visit (Kardinia Park at South Geelong aside). There's nothing at all at Corio, North Shore isn't much better, North Geelong has a handful of shops across from the highway and Geelong is three blocks from the shopping centers that are the main attraction in the center of town.

There's a small amount of local use (almost all either to or from Geelong station) and plenty of school kids use it as part of their trip to and from school, but otherwise the current stations are just good for commuters to Melbourne. In theory if they ever spent a billion dollars to do the grade separations required to re-open the Queenscliff line or put a line down to Torquay you might see some decent local traffic, but otherwise re-establishing the tram lines would be more useful - and considering the Council down here has been waging a decades-long war trying to remove the buses from the center of town, good luck with that.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Bendigo Metro is like this style of operation but the Geelong network can be vast and expanded easily. Yes I maybe consider from Geelong to Bannockburn but not much priority as the rest of the plan. Torquay and Drysdale rail links need to be completed.
Light rail in Geelong is a great idea in the city area, have no idea why there is no plan for this.

What frequency are you considering for the metro services?
x31
Every 20 minutes.
  Moncar Station Staff

Three points to add:

1. Wouldn't it make more economic sense to connect Avalon airport then just stopping at lara?  

2. The concept drawings for the development of the salt works in east geelong included a light rail into the city.

3. There is a rail reserve along the old cement line to nth geelong that could easily accomodate light rail similar to adelaide into the city.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
How much car congestion does Geelong have in the day?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Three points to add:

1. Wouldn't it make more economic sense to connect Avalon airport then just stopping at lara?  

Moncar

Whatever happened to the plans to connect Avalon Airport with the V/Line network as previously discussed on Railpage and also announced by the Government.  Is this yet another rail project abandoned?

The idea above makes so much sense and would open Avalon up to more flights by reducing the perception the airport is just too far from Geelong and Melbourne to be viable.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

There is a few things that could easily fix geelong services.
1.  Add a new station between wyndham vale/werribee and little river.   Extend all werribee trains here. (needs to be at least 5 platforms)
2.  add two tracks between the new station as above and newport (or further in)
3. duplicate as much of geelong-waurn ponds as financially possible.  So it can easily maintain at least 20 minute frequency all day with the occasional warrnambool train to get through.

4.  electrify all the way to waurn ponds, This includes the RRL
5.  Send all trains to geelong via werribee, and tarniet line trains terminate at the new station.  
6.  get geelong trains to be through routed to at least flinders st.  ideally have them terminate slightly further such as south yarra, or even integrate them with sandringham line.   Major problem with v/line trains is forced transfers in the city.
7.  This would be alot easier once the new metro tunnel is in operation.  

8.  this could all still work without electrification,but would need alot more velocitys.
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
The bus network was better a little over a year ago.

Trains run to Melbourne every 20 mins from South Geelong, so between the South Geelong and Lara, there is a 20 minute service anyway (on weekdays, and better peak period).

I'd favour AC electrification to Geelong. That way, we'd have our own trains, and not the crummy metro rollingstock. Something like the trains that run in Brisbane, on the Sunshine and Gold Coast lines, with toilets. However, I am not sure if AC and DC wires can cross each other. Someone else here can probably answer that one.
  richter170 Locomotive Driver

Lara is well suited to Avalon. 9 mins per car

You would be surprised how many people get off from Melbourne at Lara and ask for transportation to Avalon. A lot of tourists I speak to baulk at the price of the shuttle bus.

It's become that popular that at least one taxi driver I know lines up arrivals from Melbourne at Lara with the plane departure times.

Otherwise taxi drivers have to come out from Geelong city.

UBER will run between Avalon and Lara for $18.

Taxi 22 bucks.

Not train time to airport yet.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Three points to add:

1. Wouldn't it make more economic sense to connect Avalon airport then just stopping at lara?  

Whatever happened to the plans to connect Avalon Airport with the V/Line network as previously discussed on Railpage and also announced by the Government.  Is this yet another rail project abandoned?

The idea above makes so much sense and would open Avalon up to more flights by reducing the perception the airport is just too far from Geelong and Melbourne to be viable.
bevans

The land has been acquired for the future, however it was a policy of the former Baillieu/Napthine government and makes no sense at this time due to the minimal number of flights into Avalon. The former government bean counters stopped it when it was realised not much going on at Avalon at the moment.

Mike.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
And not a good look if the secondary airport has a rail link but the primary one does not.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Whatever happened to the plans to connect Avalon Airport with the V/Line network as previously discussed on Railpage and also announced by the Government.
"bevans"
They met the same fate as the plans to roof over the Jolimont railway yards - first heard in about 1958.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Three points to add:

1. Wouldn't it make more economic sense to connect Avalon airport then just stopping at lara?  

Whatever happened to the plans to connect Avalon Airport with the V/Line network as previously discussed on Railpage and also announced by the Government.  Is this yet another rail project abandoned?

The idea above makes so much sense and would open Avalon up to more flights by reducing the perception the airport is just too far from Geelong and Melbourne to be viable.

The land has been acquired for the future, however it was a policy of the former Baillieu/Napthine government and makes no sense at this time due to the minimal number of flights into Avalon. The former government bean counters stopped it when it was realised not much going on at Avalon at the moment.

Mike.
The Vinelander
There is only one reason that there is anything 'going on' at Avalon and that is because Andrews is paying Jetstar to fly there. I don't know what it is but Geelong trains and planes seems to have the negatives on someone!

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