Ideal station locations (on existing lines) and discussion on existing locations

 
  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
Title says it all, what do you think would be ideal stations for existing lines?
Forgive me if this thread has been done before.



SOUTH COAST LINE:
  • Bondi Junction
  • Edgecliff
  • Kings Cross
  • Martin Place
  • Town Hall
  • Central
  • Redfern
  • Wolli Creek
  • Hurstville
  • Sutherland
  • Waterfall
  • Helensburgh
  • Otford
  • Stanwell Park
  • Coalcliff
  • Scarborough
  • Wombarra
  • Coledale
  • Austinmer
  • Thirroul
  • Bulli
  • Woonona
  • Bellambi
  • Corrimal
  • Towradgi
  • Fairy Meadow
  • North Wollongong
  • Wollongong
  • Coniston
-- Mount St Thomas --
  • Unanderra
  • Kembla Grange
  • Dapto
-- Penrose --
-- Haywards Bay --
  • Albion Park
  • Oak Flats
  • Shellharbour Junction
-- Dunmore --
  • Minnamurra
-- Kiama Downs --
  • Bombo
  • Kiama
  • Gerringong
  • Berry
  • Bombaderry (Nowra)
-----------------------------------
  • Lysaghts
  • Cringila
  • Port Kembla North
  • Port Kembla
> Mount St Thomas Station should be located at the Drummond St bridge, a free shuttle bus to Figtree Grove Shopping Centre would boost patronage at this station.
> Penrose station should be located next to Anglican Retirement Villages St. Lukes Village, considering elderly people don't drive often, a station next to the retirement village will be convenient.
> There is a fairly new housing development located right next to the railway line, yet no station, that should change.
> I don't see why Shellharbour Junction Station had to be the end of Dunmore Station, there is still a fair distance between the two stations, but with that being said, the low development near the former Dunmore Station would have to reduce it to a request stop.
> Kiama Downs has been proposed before, but with the closure of Minnamurra and Bombo stations, I don't see why the addition of one station needs to be the end of two, considering the distance between stations.

The South Coast line should receive an additional local services on top of the exiting one, a local service from Waterfall to Kiama, allowing services from Sydney to bypass stations between Wollongong and Kiama, and allow Kembla Grange station to receive daily service. After Wollongong, Sydney services should only stop at Unanderra, Oak Flats, Shellharbour Junction and Kiama. If Illawarra Regional Airport were to receive regular airline service, Sydney services should also stop at Albion Park, with a free shuttle bus providing service between the airport and the station.
On top of that, all Thirroul - Port Kembla services should be extended to Waterfall, terminating at Thirroul never made sense to mee because the stations between Helensburgh and Thirroul still service Wollongong suburbs, some Sydney services stop at those statiions, extending all local services to Waterfall would mean all Sydney services could bypass those stations (apart from peak hour and late night services).



CENTRAL COAST AND NEWCASTLE LINE:
  • Central
  • Redfern
  • Strathfield
  • Eastwood
  • Epping
  • Hornsby
  • Asquith
  • Mount Colah
  • Mount Kuring-gai
  • Berowra Opal
  • Cowan
  • Hawkesbury River
  • Wondabyne
  • Woy Woy
  • Koolewong
  • Tascott
  • Point Clare
  • Gosford
  • Narara
  • Niagra Park
  • Lisarow
  • Ourimbah
  • Tuggerah
  • Wyong
-- Watanobbi --
  • Warnervale
-- Blue Haven --
  • Wyee
  • Morisset
  • Dora Creek
-- Eraring --
  • Awaba
  • Fassifern
  • Booragul
  • Teralba
  • Cockle Creek
-- Glendale --
  • Cardiff
-- Garden Suburb --
  • Kotara
-- Westfield Kotara --
  • Adamstown
  • Broadmeadow
  • Hamilton
> Watanobbi Station should be located at the Pacific Highway bridge and serve the residential area of the suburb.
> Blue Haven Station should be located near the Motorway link bridge and a pedestrian pathway should be built from the station to the cul-de-sac of Waterhen Close, a commuter car park is essential at this station.
> Eararing Station should be a request stop serving the Eraring Power Station, I am still unsure if this station would be appropriate.
> Glendale Station may become a reality, if so, express trains should stop here instead of Cardiff so passengers can connect to the bus services easier.
> Garden Suburb Station should be located between the dead ends of Wimbledon Grove and Park Road
> Westfield Kotara Station should be located on the bridge over Northcott Drive, apparently people were "revisiting plans to move Kotara rail station" closer to the retail centre back in 2012, but I don't see why a new station just can't be built on the bridge, leaving the existing station to serve the residential area of Kotara, alongside the Blackbutt Reserve (if pedestrian access were improved). An alternative to the construction of this station would be to provide a free shuttle bus from the station to Westfield, and an easy accesss upgrade for Kotara Station, but a new station closer to Westfield complete with trolley bay will be more convenient for shoppers.

Not much to say about stopping patterns here, although I don't see why Intercity trains stop at Eastwood, that station was once the closest to the Macquaire Park area, but since we now have the Epping to Chatswood rail link, I don't see the need for the Eastwood stop.


HUNTER LINE:
  • Hamilton
-- Islington --
  • Waratah
  • Warabrook
  • Sandgate
  • Hexham
-- Hexham South --
  • Tarro
  • Beresfield
  • Thornton
  • Metford
  • Victoria Street
  • East Maitland
  • High Street
  • Maitland
  • Telarah
-- Rutherford West --
-- Aberglasslyn --
-- Oakhampton --
-- Bolwarra Heights --
  • Mindaribba
  • Paterson
  • Martins Creek
  • Hilldale
  • Wallarobba
  • Wirragulla
  • Dungog
-----------------------------------
-- Rutherford --
  • Lochinvar
  • Greta
  • Branxton
-- Whittingham --
  • Singleton
-- Darlington --
-- Singleton Heights --
-- Integra Coal Mine --
  • Muswellbrook
  • Aberdeen
  • Scone
> Islington Station should be located next to the Clyde Street level crossing, serving not only Islington, but the nearby Newcastle TAFE
> Hexham South Station should be located near the Hexham McDondalds, and function as a request stop.
> Rutherford West should be located near the dead end of Waterworks Road
>Abserglasslyn Station should be located near the Woolworths with a pedestrian pathway linking the grocery store and the station.
> Oakhampton Station already exists (although a more significant platform may be required), but it's abandoned, it should be re-opened and function as a request stop.
> Bolwarra Heights Station should be located next to the Maitland Vale Road bridge
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rutherford Station should be located near the new residential development, the issue here is that the Scone branch of the Hunter line receives little service, this would make it difficult for residents of this area to catch the train, a solution for this would be to have every second Telarah service terminate at Rutherford instead.
>Whittingham once existed according to google maps, it should exist again and function as a request stop serving the nearby Skydive Hunter Valley.
> Darlington Station should be located at the cul-de-sac of Elliot Close and function as a request stop serving the northern Singleton residential area.
> Singleton Heights Station should be located at the cul-de-sac of Elliot Close and function as a request stop serving the northern Singleton residential area.
> Integra Coal Mine Station should be a request stop serving the coal mine of the same name.

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  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
Oh rats, my post didn't post properly, and this will take a while to fix. :/
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Not a good way to start life here is it. Perhaps go and play in the Test forum before you inflict your skills on the rest of us.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ethan1395,

Correct your post to be readable.

By the Way, the title does not explain anything. All you have doen is listed names. Can you explain more, justification, rational etc?
  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
Post is fixed, and that was painful, because the preview told me things would be fine but clicking the submit button revealed otherwise.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The problem with your suggestions is without closing other stations, trains would simply take far too long.   At the moment, South coast, newcastle and hunter all stops trains, stop too often.   This is amplified considering many of your suggestions are on single track, which would all need a loop at the minimum.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone
Do you have any experience living in any of these locations and the possible patronage?
You give a lot of examples of shops near these proposed locations, does having a station there make it more convenient for residents in the local area, who would be the main patrons of the shopping centre?


Or do we have another google maps dreamer?
  Spletsie Chief Commissioner


Ethan1395, you have clearly put a great deal of thought into this.

As population density increases and new housing estates are developed there probably is a need for new stations.

But the opening of new stations on existing lines has been a rarity over recent decades. Even the opening of Shellharbour Junction along went with the closure of Dunmore, so there was no increase in the total number of stations. There have been campaigns for a station servicing Western Sydney University between Werrington and Kingswood for over 20 years, but it has never been built.

I think part of the reason is the point tazzer96 made about adding new stations means more stops and an overall increase in journey times.

For any new station to be considered it would have to attract a high level of patronage, and certainly the request stops you suggest would not be considered.

Out of your suggestions I think Blue Haven is the best chance because it is a growing area and there is considerable distance between Warnervale and Wyee.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
There is already a station called Penrose on the Main South, near Wingello, so the proposed namesake station of the same name will have to be called something else. Australia Post also doesn't like the same name to be used twice.

Note that the village of Perth near Bathurst got a lot of mail intended for the city of Perth, WA, until it was renamed Perthville.

The land around old Dunmore is swampy and floods, and is probably not suitable for residential development.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A possible station near Clyde St, Islington is problematic, due to the clutter of turnouts and junctions n the vicinity.

Here is an, albeit not-to-scale, diagram of the same: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR500.pdf

It would be nice if someone could post an aerial photo of the same.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A possible station near Clyde St, Islington is problematic, due to the clutter of turnouts and junctions n the vicinity.

Here is an, albeit not-to-scale, diagram of the same: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR500.pdf

It would be nice if someone could post an aerial photo of the same.
awsgc24

Some good news is:
* there used to be more track(s) through the area, including a now removed bridge over the creek.
* so there ought be room for two side platforms.
* the signalling appears to be a CBI (Computer Based Interlocking) which are easier to alter than old mechanical ones.
* some relocation of track, turnouts, and signals will probably be needed, especially the UGL siding on the down side, which needs to be cut short to clear the down platform.
* the trailing crossover between Up and Down mains would probably be located within the platforms; can't be helped.
* the main line tracks are straight.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
I don't ARTC are going to be receptive of more platforms in its predominately freight orientated network, coal is king.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
I don't ARTC are going to be receptive of more platforms in its predominately freight orientated network, coal is king.
Junction box

The Coal lines do not reach Islington Junc, and turn off before there to Port Waratah.

The proposed platforms at Islington are on the mainly passenger lines.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Recent and not so recent proposed stations include:

* Werrington West for Uni West Sydney

* Eastwood-Epping to halve long gap

* Pymble-Turramurra to halve long gap.

Abandoned station on the Illawarra Line include:

* Yalla - Dapto-Albion Park

* Lilydale

* Clifton - Coal Cliff-Scarborough

* Omega - near level crossing.

* Toolijooa

* Jaspers Brush

See: http://www.nswrail.net/lines/show.php?name=NSW:south_coast
  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
The problem with your suggestions is without closing other stations, trains would simply take far too long.   At the moment, South coast, newcastle and hunter all stops trains, stop too often.   This is amplified considering many of your suggestions are on single track, which would all need a loop at the minimum.
tazzer96

Good point on single track, certainty something I did not think of, as trains for stopping too often, only all station trains need to stop at the proposed stations.



Do you have any experience living in any of these locations and the possible patronage?
You give a lot of examples of shops near these proposed locations, does having a station there make it more convenient for residents in the local area, who would be the main patrons of the shopping centre?


Or do we have another google maps dreamer?
Just The Tip


I lived in Wollongong when I was really young, too young to know anything about patronage, currently I live in the Lake Macquarie area south of Newcastle and the best thing for me would be a re-opened Belmont Line (that's another topic), but I do travel from Cockle Creek Station to Hamilton Station three days a week for TAFE.

The proposed Glendale station would not really service any residential areas (although people living in Macquaire Hills might used it) considering it will be between an industrial area and the shopping centre, but it's a busy shopping centre right next to a railway line with no station - if we are trying to get people out of there cars (and Newcastle is a city dominated by the car), things like that should not exist.
The same goes for the Westfield Kotara Station I proposed, but that one would actually also service the residential area north of the railway line.

Garden Suburb contains many homes and once again, next to the railway line - but with no station (although it's not too far from Cardiff Station), same goes for Watanobbi (although this one is near Wyong), Blue Haven, Aberglasslyn, Rutherford (parts of it are not too far from Telarah) and Islington (although once again, this is near Hamilton, but would also be very useful for students of the nearby Newcastle TAFE, myself included).

Although I don't live in the area, I imagine living right next to the railway line in Haywards Bay would be a big tease, that location is a very considerable distance from the nearest station.


I guess you could call the request stops I suggested and the northern Singleton stations Google Map dreams, but I thought I would add them in anyway.


A possible station near Clyde St, Islington is problematic, due to the clutter of turnouts and junctions n the vicinity.

Here is an, albeit not-to-scale, diagram of the same: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR500.pdf

It would be nice if someone could post an aerial photo of the same.

Some good news is:
* there used to be more track(s) through the area, including a now removed bridge over the creek.
* so there ought be room for two side platforms.
* the signalling appears to be a CBI (Computer Based Interlocking) which are easier to alter than old mechanical ones.
* some relocation of track, turnouts, and signals will probably be needed, especially the UGL siding on the down side, which needs to be cut short to clear the down platform.
* the trailing crossover between Up and Down mains would probably be located within the platforms; can't be helped.
awsgc24


It's also worth pointing out that the platforms don't need to be too long, as a 4 car train is rare on that line.

And awsgc24, here is your aerial photo, the red arrow is where I believe the Islington Station should be located.
One concern would be is that while additional and closer stops don't add too much time for electric trains, they may for diesel trains as they have poorer acceleration.

o


Recent and not so recent proposed stations include:

* Werrington West for Uni West Sydney

* Eastwood-Epping to halve long gap

* Pymble-Turramurra to halve long gap.

Abandoned station on the Illawarra Line include:

* Yalla - Dapto-Albion Park

* Lilydale

* Clifton - Coal Cliff-Scarborough

* Omega - near level crossing.

* Toolijooa

* Jaspers Brush

See: http://www.nswrail.net/lines/show.php?name=NSW:south_coast


I am very surprised to see that Yallah Station once existed, and there was no proposal for a new station considering the residential development in Haywards Bay.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
If you add extra stations on a line, the running time, including dwell time, increases by about a minute.

This extra time matters more on a single line than a double line, since trains consume more capacity on a single line.

To compensate, one or more of the following steps can be taken:

* Increase turnout speeds at crossing loops, Dapto, Albion Park, Shellharbour, Bombo, Kiama
* Extend loops to
** reduce length of single line section, (1 second every 22.22m if line speed 80km/h, each way)
** to handle very long freight trains better;
** eliminate need for timed train stops for arriving trains (think Platform 2 at Hornsby)
** make "passing lanes".
* Second Platform at Bombo, and footbridge
* Second Platform at Nowra
* Simultaneous Arrivals at Bombo, Nowra
* Convert Set Back Siding at Berry to a proper loop.
* Additional Crossing Loops, not necessarily at stations.
* Install "missing" crossover north of Unanderra.
* Partial or Full duplication is probably a bit expensive.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

CENTRAL COAST AND NEWCASTLE LINE:
  • Central
  • Redfern
  • Strathfield
  • Eastwood
  • Epping
  • Hornsby
  • Asquith
  • Mount Colah
  • Mount Kuring-gai
  • Berowra Opal
  • Cowan
  • Hawkesbury River
  • Wondabyne
  • Woy Woy
  • Koolewong
  • Tascott
  • Point Clare
  • Gosford
  • Narara
  • Niagra Park
  • Lisarow
  • Ourimbah
  • Tuggerah
  • Wyong
-- Watanobbi --
  • Warnervale
-- Blue Haven --
  • Wyee
  • Morisset
  • Dora Creek
-- Eraring --
  • Awaba
  • Fassifern
  • Booragul
  • Teralba
  • Cockle Creek
-- Glendale --
  • Cardiff
-- Garden Suburb --
  • Kotara
-- Westfield Kotara --
  • Adamstown
  • Broadmeadow
Ethan1395

Always thought Wyoming (between Gosford and Narara) was a suitable location for a new station. Decent catchment area, close to shops and room for a carpark.


-- Rutherford --
  • Lochinvar
  • Greta
  • Branxton
-- Whittingham --
  • Singleton
-- Darlington --
-- Singleton Heights --
-- Integra Coal Mine --
  • Muswellbrook
  • Aberdeen
  • Scone
Ethan1395

May as well include Allandale and Belford Smile
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A possible station near Clyde St, Islington is problematic, due to the clutter of turnouts and junctions n the vicinity.

Here is an, albeit not-to-scale, diagram of the same: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR500.pdf

It would be nice if someone could post an aerial photo of the same.
awsgc24

A new station was built at Warabrook to serve an educational facility, so another new station near Islington for another educational facility would seem reasonable.
  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
CENTRAL COAST AND NEWCASTLE LINE:
  • Central
  • Redfern
  • Strathfield
  • Eastwood
  • Epping
  • Hornsby
  • Asquith
  • Mount Colah
  • Mount Kuring-gai
  • Berowra Opal
  • Cowan
  • Hawkesbury River
  • Wondabyne
  • Woy Woy
  • Koolewong
  • Tascott
  • Point Clare
  • Gosford
  • Narara
  • Niagra Park
  • Lisarow
  • Ourimbah
  • Tuggerah
  • Wyong
-- Watanobbi --
  • Warnervale
-- Blue Haven --
  • Wyee
  • Morisset
  • Dora Creek
-- Eraring --
  • Awaba
  • Fassifern
  • Booragul
  • Teralba
  • Cockle Creek
-- Glendale --
  • Cardiff
-- Garden Suburb --
  • Kotara
-- Westfield Kotara --
  • Adamstown
  • Broadmeadow

Always thought Wyoming (between Gosford and Narara) was a suitable location for a new station. Decent catchment area, close to shops and room for a carpark.
Kamz

That's a great idea

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