Malcolm Turncoat's imploding act

 
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Dear Don and others,

The Racial Discrimination Act does NOT have provisions for the HRC to prosecute persons in court. It is supposed to find a mutually acceptable solution to all parties, and which in hundreds and thousands of complaints it does exactly that .

The Queensland students were sued privately in a Civil case, that option as always open to everyone .
For a case to be deemed vexatious , by definition,  requires it to be heard in a Court Of Law , the HRC is not a Court of Law, and cannot prevent a civil case going to Court.

As a lawyer friend of mine told me many years ago , when you go to court at best you have a fifty per cent chance of winning and a fifty per cent chance of receiving compensation and a fifty per cent chance of having the loosing party pay your legal costs. In the last instance the loosing party going broke, and therefore not paying up is high , in which case guess who has to pay the costs ?

Bolt was also successfully sued in a Civil Court , he was, in my view , extremely lucky he was not sued for defamation in NSW , where even truth is not a defence in defamation. And by the way he was found to have seriously defamed those who took him to Court.

I agree that the right to free speech is important , equally important is for sections of the community not to be vilified on the basis of race, colour or religion. The case of Bill Leek is important for reasons I previously outlined . There is also a difference between being offended and being vilified or defamed and sometimes it is a fine line.

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  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello 9034 and others ,

With respect , anyone can sue anyone in a Civil case providing they can demonstrate they have been damaged in some way. The most vigorous proponent of this idea is Ms Gina Rhinehart who is reputed to have used every legal firm in WA and these days is working her way through the Sydney list .

For all of its faults the Law as an institution is based on the "reasonable man " theory ie what would a reasonable person think is appropriate. Overlaid on this is past precedent and statute law where applicable to a Civil case. Irrespective of what measures are put in place there will always be an occasion when someone stretches the point , and when that happens someone else can find themselves in a very serious position, like those Queensland students.

Attacking a law because of a few examples is generally not good policy, and in relation to Civil cases is quite probably impossible to prevent in every case.

It is also true that the marginalised and the minorities do suffer more discrimination than the majority of us. The Racial Discrimination Act and the Human Rights Commission were established to address this, and in the vast majority of cases, does that successfully. It should also be pointed out that the HRC is also in compliance with Australia's ratification of the UN Charter of Human Rights of which Australia in 1948 was one of the main drafters and supporters.


Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

Firstly I promise not to raise the HRC, Section 18 c and related matters , and I will take my own advice ( that's a brave thing to do Minister ) and move o to other matters. By the way Carnot I love that phrase "Outrage Gravitron spins into overdrive".Very Happy

Speaking out about contentious matters is a problem in all societies. A failure to speak out can lead to grave and ongoing injustices as the current Royal Commissions into Child Abuse has clearly demonstrated.
The Churches were once powerful and respected independent institutions in our society , and criticism was not tolerated. As a result their power was abused and the consequences we will live with for years to come.

So speaking out is both important, and an act of bravery and we all need to listen to uncomfortable criticism both as individuals and as a society.

Speaking out against abhorrent practices within minority communities is also important provided that we stick to the facts and not lace it with non related prejudices.

Equal opportunity for all people is important, but it is something that we have not done well historically, though there have definitely been a lot of improvements post WW2  in Australia. Improved opportunity should not be a left right issue, it should be a communal issue affecting all of us and our children and we need to collectively ensure that those opportunities are expanded and not restricted . For this we do need to speak out, and we should do so with conviction and compassion.

Bspest wishes and regards, Radioman
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Pretty much all institutions are no longer trusted in this country.  Add to the list Trade Unions, RSL, political parties, and so on....

We've mostly become purely autonomous in deciding what is right or wrong, or being an individual within a loosely associated (via social media) echo chamber that goes hysterical and decides to be judge, jury and executioner against anyone they disagree with.  And that's part of the problem of 18C - 'offence' is a very malleable word.  Some are easily offended, others are not.  Guilt is imputed on a defendant in a very subjective and relativistic way.

Changes need to be made to the language of the act.
  allan Chief Commissioner

Pretty much all institutions are no longer trusted in this country.  Add to the list Trade Unions, RSL, political parties, and so on....
Carnot
Trades Unions are still trusted by their members, especially those who are least able to defend themselves...
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

It's good to see Malcolm show some leadership (finally) with Snowyhydro 2.0.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Yes, Malcolm has done well in the past 24 hours, first by hosing down the gas producers with a "gentle" reminder that the Government controls what gets exported, and now with the Snowy expansion. The relative minister has been strangely quiet.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Yes, Malcolm has done well in the past 24 hours, first by hosing down the gas producers with a "gentle" reminder that the Government controls what gets exported, and now with the Snowy expansion. The relative minister has been strangely quiet.
mikesyd

Feeling this was really important that Turnbull took a stance with the gas suppliers to prevent (well attempt to prevent) gouging of pricing across the domestic market.

What will the new Snowy Project deliver?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Yes, Malcolm has done well in the past 24 hours, first by hosing down the gas producers with a "gentle" reminder that the Government controls what gets exported, and now with the Snowy expansion. The relative minister has been strangely quiet.

Feeling this was really important that Turnbull took a stance with the gas suppliers to prevent (well attempt to prevent) gouging of pricing across the domestic market.

What will the new Snowy Project deliver?
x31
Mainly pumped storage hydroelectricity - the most cost effective and reliable way to deal with peak loads.  i.e. Pump water uphill overnight, and release it through the turbine during afternoon/evening peak.  It's already done at Tumut 3 power station.

All this hype about Tesla batteries is mostly just that - hype.  It's more suited to smaller home and factory-based installations.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
A lot of over-the-top BS about 18C, especially on reactionary radio. That's to be expected.
Like any legislation individual cases are interpreted and determined by courts. If there was a significant flaw in the legislation, the cash-for-comment lot would be so tied up in the courts advertisers wouldn't touch them.

The whole kafuffle about gas shouldn't come as any surprise. I read about this potential scenario years ago when export of gas from the east coast was announced. However, yet again the colonial cargo cult mentality prevailed Rolling Eyes
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...Mainly pumped storage hydroelectricity - the most cost effective and reliable way to deal with peak loads.  i.e. Pump water uphill overnight, and release it through the turbine during afternoon/evening peak.  It's already done at Tumut 3 power station.

All this hype about Tesla batteries is mostly just that - hype.  It's more suited to smaller home and factory-based installations.
Carnot
Hardly new technology either which make it easier for this government to get its head around Wink

Pumped hydo has around 85% efficiency which isn't too bad. There are plenty of dams that could include pumped hydrogenation or have current installations upgraded.

There are other systems that can capture energy in some form where the energy can be released as needed (e.g. hydrogen from electricity).

Renewables aren't the problem (except the energy source is free). Where there's a will and more profit, there's a way.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

...Mainly pumped storage hydroelectricity - the most cost effective and reliable way to deal with peak loads.  i.e. Pump water uphill overnight, and release it through the turbine during afternoon/evening peak.  It's already done at Tumut 3 power station.

All this hype about Tesla batteries is mostly just that - hype.  It's more suited to smaller home and factory-based installations.
Hardly new technology either which make it easier for this government to get its head around Wink

Pumped hydo has around 85% efficiency which isn't too bad. There are plenty of dams that could include pumped hydrogenation or have current installations upgraded.

There are other systems that can capture energy in some form where the energy can be released as needed (e.g. hydrogen from electricity).

Renewables aren't the problem (except the energy source is free). Where there's a will and more profit, there's a way.
Groundrelay
Reneweconomy are very positive about it: http://reneweconomy.com.au/turnbull-drives-stake-through-heart-of-fossil-fuel-industry-48916/
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

I think Malcolm's big Snowy announcement was 2 pronged in that it satisfied the Greens and also made it look to the rest of Australia that he had solved the power problems.

Far from it as the only way to guarantee power supply for NSW at least, is the construction of a new coal fired power station.
Everything else is just stop gap measures and bandaids.

The big cry over the shortage of gas is because the gas fired turbines that were installed at several defunct power stations as peak demand back up generators are now being used far more often than they were intended.

Without a new base demand station NSW will be in big trouble very soon as Liddel will be mothballed in the near future.
If you look at how many older power stations have been closed in relation to how many new ones have been built you can see we are going backwards.  4 units at Munmorah closed, 4 units at Vales Point closed, and 4 units to be closed at Liddel.

There is a saving grace that no one seems to want to mention probably because it is coal fired, but when the 2 units at Mt Piper were built the entire foundations were constructed for an additional 2 units. All they have to do is go back and finish off the job that was started and that would help us out immensely for a few more years.

But in reality we will be in deep poo relying on an upgraded Snowy and some gas fired back-up units along with wind and solar.
We need a new coal fired base load station now using clean Hunter coal and the latest technology to reduce emissions.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I think Malcolm's big Snowy announcement was 2 pronged in that it satisfied the Greens and also made it look to the rest of Australia that he had solved the power problems.

Far from it as the only way to guarantee power supply for NSW at least, is the construction of a new coal fired power station.
Everything else is just stop gap measures and bandaids.

The big cry over the shortage of gas is because the gas fired turbines that were installed at several defunct power stations as peak demand back up generators are now being used far more often than they were intended.

Without a new base demand station NSW will be in big trouble very soon as Liddel will be mothballed in the near future.
If you look at how many older power stations have been closed in relation to how many new ones have been built you can see we are going backwards.  4 units at Munmorah closed, 4 units at Vales Point closed, and 4 units to be closed at Liddel.

There is a saving grace that no one seems to want to mention probably because it is coal fired, but when the 2 units at Mt Piper were built the entire foundations were constructed for an additional 2 units. All they have to do is go back and finish off the job that was started and that would help us out immensely for a few more years.

But in reality we will be in deep poo relying on an upgraded Snowy and some gas fired back-up units along with wind and solar.
We need a new coal fired base load station now using clean Hunter coal and the latest technology to reduce emissions.
Showtime
The fact of the matter is that no one will invest in coal power anymore.  No one, zero, nada, zilch.  Being a climate change skeptic or not won't change that.

And Jay Wetherill acted in his usual arrogant way towards Frydenberg this morning....  Ideology and hype won't work, but realistic solutions will.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
And Jay Wetherill acted in his usual arrogant way towards Frydenberg this morning....  Ideology and hype won't work, but realistic solutions will.
Carnot

I'm more of the inclination that Frydenberg was entirely deserving of the smackdown after his constant blaming of SA's recent blackouts on renewables and preventing the operation of the gas-fired plant at Pelican Point to provide extra capacity.

Don't forget the leaked memo to the PM stating that the blackout issues were not caused by renewables, the memo that was ignored because it didn't fit in with the 'coal first' mentality of the Libs and their backers...
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

You can't put your head in the sand and say the future is wind, hydro, gas and solar, as none of these are reliable.
They are back ups and thats all they ever will be - the wind stops blowing, the rain doesn't always come when we want it, the sun disappears 50% of the time, the gas will run out in time.
We will be living in the dark real quick leaving us with 2 options - clean coal fired thermal power stations or nuclear power stations.

No one would have the balls to go nuclear in Australia and unfortunately Malcolm doesn't have the balls to go coal
4 years and $2B to modify the Snowy is just not going to cut it.

The sensible thing to do is to dismantle the 4 units at Liddel when they have date expired and build at least 2 new units on the same site.
The infrastructure is already in place for coal, water and power distribution.

You can't believe all the hype about coal being the black demon. Like the coal used in steam locos, there is good coal and bad coal.
Hunter coal is the worlds cleanest steaming coal hence why we export so much of it.
We have the technology to handle the NOS and SOS a lot better than when the older stations were built so why should we penalise ourselves in both our domestic and commercial futures.

We can sit around eating our room temperature tins of mung beans and feel all warm inside but the rest of the world will continue to use coal and just laugh at what idiots we are.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Showtime - spot on. And I don't understand why Jay Weatherill elected to build and operate a government power station fuelled by natural gas when we have an (albeit artificially construed) gas crisis on the horizon where they may find it prohibitively expensive to operate. Nobody - state or federal - is making any sense on the issue.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

I am amazed that people still think nuclear power is viable. In reality it never was , it's unstated purpose was to generate plutonium for nuclear weapons, even Japan , which will not acquire or use nuclear weapons , exported plutonium to the US for guess what ?

The Kagashima Power Station is now estimated by TEPCO / Tokyo Electric Power Company to take 200 years to clean up. The Dounray Nuclear Power Station in North Scotland will take over twnrty years to decommission which is twice the time it rook to build, oh and the site will need to be guarded for 5,000
( FIVE THOUSAND ) years until it is safe. This is longer than Britain's history as an effective State.

There is no way any of this is either cheap or economic. Renewables are fine , the use of Gas Turbine boosters , though expensive , is intended for short term top up , not long tern running. I also agree that some coal fired base load power is sensible subject to using low polluting coal, which rules out the La Trobe Valley in Victoria.

Networked Solar is viable and in a country like Australia where the sun actually shines for more than 12 hours a day should be utilised. Yes, it is not, of itself , the only solution, but a mix of supply is possible, viable and increasingly will be the future whether the coal mining companies like it or not. And if a Welsh village on the Atlantic coast can power itself with solar and wind, this in the wettest part of Wales , then I fail to see why a semi arid country like Australia cannot do so.

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

You can't put your head in the sand and say the future is wind, hydro, gas and solar, as none of these are reliable.
They are back ups and thats all they ever will be - the wind stops blowing, the rain doesn't always come when we want it, the sun disappears 50% of the time, the gas will run out in time.
We will be living in the dark real quick leaving us with 2 options - clean coal fired thermal power stations or nuclear power stations.

No one would have the balls to go nuclear in Australia and unfortunately Malcolm doesn't have the balls to go coal
4 years and $2B to modify the Snowy is just not going to cut it.

The sensible thing to do is to dismantle the 4 units at Liddel when they have date expired and build at least 2 new units on the same site.
The infrastructure is already in place for coal, water and power distribution.

You can't believe all the hype about coal being the black demon. Like the coal used in steam locos, there is good coal and bad coal.
Hunter coal is the worlds cleanest steaming coal hence why we export so much of it.
We have the technology to handle the NOS and SOS a lot better than when the older stations were built so why should we penalise ourselves in both our domestic and commercial futures.

We can sit around eating our room temperature tins of mung beans and feel all warm inside but the rest of the world will continue to use coal and just laugh at what idiots we are.
Showtime
Mt Piper should be upgraded with additional two units, as designed for, I understand, some of the required infrastructure, is there, from initial construction. Am unfamiliar with Liddel.

We are satisfied to export coal, and let other nations burn the stuff, be reluctant to do it here. It's one planet, burning coal in India, China, or OZ, what's the difference.

MT making policy, on the run again. Snowy 2.0, may provide some relief, jobs, if it ever gets underway, but is the warm and fuzzy feeling alluded to above.

I am not a sceptic of mans influence on the environment, but at what cost? And I don't like luke warm mung beans.
  1771D Junior Train Controller

The only difference is that we burn far less coal than India and China, and thus release a tiny fraction of CO2 into the atmosphere when compared to the emissions from these two countries.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The only difference is that we burn far less coal than India and China, and thus release a tiny fraction of CO2 into the atmosphere when compared to the emissions from these two countries.
1771D
Agreed,Yet, we are looking to expand export capacity, Adani? The raw ingredient is supplied, in a big part by OZ.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...And Jay Wetherill acted in his usual arrogant way towards Frydenberg this morning...
Carnot
Watch the entire thing, not just the reactionary media's edited version Idea About time we saw some biffo at these things.
Lets face it, Turnbull & Co have been quick to lay into the SA government yet the best they can do is come up with some out-of-the-blue proposal. Obviously had a good nights sleep to come up with it Razz
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
The only difference is that we burn far less coal than India and China, and thus release a tiny fraction of CO2 into the atmosphere when compared to the emissions from these two countries.
1771D

The mental approach of a five year old.

Bravo!
  1771D Junior Train Controller

Wow, ouch!!! From a Green Left nutter, that attempted insult is as limp as a flamingo feather.
  1771D Junior Train Controller

Enough of the unnecessary insults, I was simply stating FACT, something conveniently forgotten by the far left in all debates.  Rolling Eyes

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