Topic moved from General by dthead on 10 Oct 2016 21:40
  eddyb Train Controller

Four in stations for 15 minutes while three are northbound in tunnels

Four in stations for 15 minutes while three are southbound in tunnels

A train would therefore leave each end every 15 minutes

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  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Don't think that'll work with single tubes between stations. Best I can see is three trains max giving an hourly service. For a train leaving Sydney, you can't have anything in the opposite direction before Albury, which the train from Sydney will cross at Canberra. Happy to be proved wrong here Eddy old lad, but this seven train piped ream doesn't hold the cards up from what I can see without passing loops midway between stations and at stations. Get your big boffin Queensland engineer mate to give it the old Aussie once over. Has the Japanese PM answered? If not, try again with the classic Dear Sir salutation, these fellas can be quite the sticklers for protocol.
  eddyb Train Controller

250 kilometers at 1,000kph = 15 minutes
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Look at it this way. A train leaves Melbourne at 8 a.m. just as a train from Sydney arrives. That train left Sydney at 6.45. The train from Melbourne will arrive in Sydney at 9.15, just as another is leaving for Melbourne. With 15 a minute headway,  that means our 8 a.m. Melbourne to Sydney service must cross trains leaving Sydney at 7.00, 7.15, 7.30, 7.45, 8.00, 8.15, 8.30, 8.45 and 9.00. That's  nine trains to cross and you've got two loops, at Canberra and Albury. See the problem. KABOOM at 2000 km/h, which is 1000 x 2.
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Good(ish)  Cool news for your project! You can use six trains to give a twice hourly service from Sydney and Melbourne but it will be unbalanced; you'd have trains leaving on the hour and a quarter past, so alternate gaps of 15 then 45 minutes between services.
  eddyb Train Controller

You have got me doubting myself here Billy
I look at it like AC current with northbound in stations while southbound are in tunnels and vice versa.
A train leaving Melbourne at 6.15 would wait at Albury and Canberra for 15 minutes each station to allow the southbound trains the use of the tunnels arriving in Sydney at 7.30
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Think about what happens when a train reaches a terminus. It can't just turn around and go back because there'll be a train at Canberra or Albury waiting to leave in the opposing direction. I'll whack up a graphic representing of how to use six trains, but I'm pretty sure that's the maximum and it gives two services per hour, with alternate headway of 15 then 45 minster,  not regular 30 min departures.
  eddyb Train Controller

That is why you need seven trains so there is one ready to leave in the same direction as the Albury and Canberra trains allowing a 15 minute frequency either end.
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
I think there'll be fairy floss farms on Mars before this Magtube thing exists, but..... you can't get 15 minute frequency all day in both directions unless you have passing tubes at stations AND in between stations. Here's another way to think about it. Each of your single tube sections (between each station) takes 15 minutes for the canister to get through. So in one hour each of those sections can handle a maximum of four services (4 x 15 = 60). four services, one hour, for BOTH directions, that's a two services per hour for each direction. Another way to think about it; any service, if there are regular headways, will cross opposing services at intervals equal to half of the headway; so services every 15 minutes in both directions mean there'll be a cross on average every 7.5 minutes, and it takes 15 minutes to get through the tube.
  eddyb Train Controller

If it only takes 15 minutes each tunnel why would you need passing loops in them
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
If it only takes 15 minutes each tunnel why would you need passing loops in them
eddyb
Your understanding of timetabling and train stock pathing seems to be limited !

A single section with 15 minute journey time, wanted to be used for even two way traffic, the maximum frequency would be a train every 30 mins plus a bit of grace time, say 32 mins.
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Because when a train leaves, let's say, Albury, for Canberra, it will occupy the tunnel for 15 minutes. 15 minutes later it will arrive in Canberra. With 15 minute headways the next service will then be ready to leave Albury for Canberra. No space for any Canberra to Albury service. Same for each of the inter city sections. As long as you have 15 minute headways in one direction there is no space for services in the other direction.
  eddyb Train Controller

Get some paper and write down where all the trains will be at a certain time then write down where they would be 15 minutes later
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Get some paper and write down where all the trains will be at a certain time then write down where they would be 15 minutes later
eddyb
Yes head on collision half way between each section !
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zRJXDUXQ-ImAIAh8TRShL1lzgTXzUGdDEGYs7ZsD5Ew/edit?usp=sharing

S = Sydney, SC = Sydney - Canberra section C = Canberra and so on. Each canister is alloted a number, A to F = 6 canisters. Letters in box indicates service occupying section for that time. Yellow boxes are northbound services. Note that the single tube sections are constantly occupied. This gives you maximum two services each direction per hour with 15 then 45 minute gaps between each  service.
  eddyb Train Controller

Yes of coarse I am wrong
Struck me at 2.19 am
It must be half hour frequency
  eddyb Train Controller

Billy I tried to respond to your PM but it said your inbox is full.

Anyhow


Originally I had designed the Melbourne and Sydney stations with a single track and platforms both sides for fast off/on but as all trains will have 15 minutes for off/on there can be a track either side of a central platform.


This in turn allows four trains engaging in off/on at stations while three are in the tunnels.


The schedule could be northbound 8.00am, 8.30am, 9.00am, 9.30am, etc. with southbound 8.15am, 8.45am, 9.15am etc.


Even though frequency would be half hour, because of the 5.6m wide carriages allowing 10 seats per row each train would take 2,000 passengers in comfort.


The problem is there are 25% want maglev, 50% want HSR and 25% want to just use more planes on that route but if most people want Maglev then it would happen.


Regards Eddy
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Nothing in the inbox, shouldn't be a problem. For the timetable; have you considered having a 'hop-scotch' style stopping pattern where services only stop at Canberra OR Albury? This would save a valuable 15 minutes per service and the only disadvantage would be no Canberra - Albury service, which can be done by a comfortable modern bus for those who insist on travelling between these two places. Express services would cross stopping services at the station. Try and jig something up timetable wise, I reckon it just might work, and the 15 minutes stopping time saved, plus that not needed to slow down or speed up, I reckon the service could slip in just under the psychological important 1 hour barrier. Tell us more about the comfort factor on these services. I saw that you want a central aisle with 5 seats either side, and that businesspassengers who wanted to go to the toilet could just 'hold it' to the next stop. I think platforms either side of the vehicle would be better, with exit doors on each side beside each row of seats. Maybe fit SkyRider seats as well? Then you wouldn't even need an aisle and could fit twelve per row and reduce pitch to 50cm. Have a trailer on the back where people can put bikes, suitcases, skis, golf clubs or any other crop they want to bring along.

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