Federal body says no to funds for Maldon Dombarton

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 01 Mar 2017 10:26
  fzr560 Train Controller

I should explain? I'm not the one suggesting that we spend one billion dollars(borrowed money) on a project that could not be justified in 1988, could not be justified in 2011 and almost certainly can't be justified ATM. If anyone needs to explain it is the person who thinks that the report is wrong. Feel free to provide some stats to support your view and tell us why the report is wrong.

Except it was justified because the project was started in 1983 and only an incompetent anti rail premier in Nick Greiner stopped the project. It was started again in 2009 only to be cancelled by an anti rail prime minister in 2013.
simstrain
Yeah, Bad Tony. If it's not too much trouble could you post those patronage figures for all those buses travelling between Wollongong and Campbelltown?

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  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
It really isn't difficult to see why this proposed line isn't getting any funding .
Anything in the way of freight going to Sydney is silly not to use the Illawarra .
Anything going south is better off using the Unanderra Moss Vale line .
If you want to spend money unclogging the Illa do something about that pathetic single line section between Conniston and Unanderra . Strange that there is double lines into Inner Harbor from the south but a single line linking the South Coast to the Gong .
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
I should explain? I'm not the one suggesting that we spend one billion dollars(borrowed money) on a project that could not be justified in 1988, could not be justified in 2011 and almost certainly can't be justified ATM. If anyone needs to explain it is the person who thinks that the report is wrong. Feel free to provide some stats to support your view and tell us why the report is wrong.

Except it was justified because the project was started in 1983 and only an incompetent anti rail premier in Nick Greiner stopped the project. It was started again in 2009 only to be cancelled by an anti rail prime minister in 2013.
simstrain

It was cancelled in the mid 80's because the projected coal traffic was never going to eventuate and didn't eventuate and the projection today is the same with even less coal and general freight coming from SW Sydney and the mountains. The other cross country line is not that much further south so the traffic potential is buggerall.

I tend to agree with others, spend the $1B or so on the south coast line. That and another $1-2B would duplicate and likely rip out 20-30min of travel time FOR ALL trains saving the govt millions are year in operating the commuter services and the uses probably 30-40min a day in travel time as a minimum.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I should explain? I'm not the one suggesting that we spend one billion dollars(borrowed money) on a project that could not be justified in 1988, could not be justified in 2011 and almost certainly can't be justified ATM. If anyone needs to explain it is the person who thinks that the report is wrong. Feel free to provide some stats to support your view and tell us why the report is wrong.

Except it was justified because the project was started in 1983 and only an incompetent anti rail premier in Nick Greiner stopped the project. It was started again in 2009 only to be cancelled by an anti rail prime minister in 2013.

It was cancelled in the mid 80's because the projected coal traffic was never going to eventuate and didn't eventuate and the projection today is the same with even less coal and general freight coming from SW Sydney and the mountains. The other cross country line is not that much further south so the traffic potential is buggerall.

I tend to agree with others, spend the $1B or so on the south coast line. That and another $1-2B would duplicate and likely rip out 20-30min of travel time FOR ALL trains saving the govt millions are year in operating the commuter services and the uses probably 30-40min a day in travel time as a minimum.
RTT_Rules

We are talking about the main south line and not the south coast line RTT. 2 separate rail lines. South coast line isn't going to happen RTT. When this government first got into power it looked at ways to fix the issue but found that the instability in the area means nothing can be done.

I agree with spending $1billion on the main south. I just happen to think that in addition to that the Maldon-Dombarton rail line could also be finished to provide a much needed rail connection between South west Sydney and the Illawarra. I'm not the only one thinking this. Fast rail link Campbelltown to Wollongong
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Another rail project from another foreign backed entity just looking for a naive Australian government to hand over the cash......
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Sims
I am very referring to the south coast line for which the DM ultimately is designed to bypass and I'm calling BS that nothing can be done with the south coast line.

As if they could build the original and straighter route with a pick and shovel that is still vey much physically intact after 100 years of abandonment just think what could be done today.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Sims
I am very referring to the south coast line for which the DM ultimately is designed to bypass and I'm calling BS that nothing can be done with the south coast line.

As if they could build the original and straighter route with a pick and shovel that is still vey much physically intact after 100 years of abandonment just think what could be done today.
RTT_Rules

That isn't what the DM line is for RTT although it can provide such a service. Campbelltown to Wollongong is an extremely busy corridor and a train line is more then justified, regardless of what useless IA thinks. The DM line would open up much more opportunities for intermodal traffic as well as provide a much needed passenger connection between 2 fast growing parts of NSW that are not that far from one another. It would also directly connect Wollongong to Parramatta by rail.

To travel between Campbelltown and Wollongong by rail takes about 2 hours and 20 minutes at best according to tripview at the moment. Going via the DM line would reduce that journey to about 40 minutes which would make a compelling case for people to not drive between these 2 cities.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/appin-road-is-this-sydneys-deadliest-road-20160202-gmjnut.html
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Oh and if you don't think that many people are travelling between south western Sydney and Wollongong then why is this happening.

http://www.uow.edu.au/swsydney/index.html

and http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/university-of-wollongong-to-open-liverpool-campus-20160502-gojypv.html
  fzr560 Train Controller

Oh and if you don't think that many people are travelling between south western Sydney and Wollongong then why is this happening.

http://www.uow.edu.au/swsydney/index.html

and http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/university-of-wollongong-to-open-liverpool-campus-20160502-gojypv.html
simstrain
You've convinced me. This rail line has been the victim of a whole lot of really bad decisions by really bad politicians advised by obviously incompetent(or corrupt) bureaucrats and contractors. I suggest you front up to the bank tomorrow with your plan and once you've organized the finance, I'm sure things will start to fall into place. Some may suggest that you'll struggle but I've heard that finance people love a good infrastructure project. If you do get a knock-back please don't be discouraged. There's always another bank down the road. As you can see from this forum there are some people that just don't see the big picture but banking is a competitive industry and I'm sure some-one will need to get their numbers up before year-end. Can't wait for it to be finished.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Sims
I am very referring to the south coast line for which the DM ultimately is designed to bypass and I'm calling BS that nothing can be done with the south coast line.

As if they could build the original and straighter route with a pick and shovel that is still vey much physically intact after 100 years of abandonment just think what could be done today.

That isn't what the DM line is for RTT although it can provide such a service. Campbelltown to Wollongong is an extremely busy corridor and a train line is more then justified, regardless of what useless IA thinks. The DM line would open up much more opportunities for intermodal traffic as well as provide a much needed passenger connection between 2 fast growing parts of NSW that are not that far from one another. It would also directly connect Wollongong to Parramatta by rail.

To travel between Campbelltown and Wollongong by rail takes about 2 hours and 20 minutes at best according to tripview at the moment. Going via the DM line would reduce that journey to about 40 minutes which would make a compelling case for people to not drive between these 2 cities.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/appin-road-is-this-sydneys-deadliest-road-20160202-gmjnut.html
simstrain
Urgh, who is talking about passenger traffic????

DM is for freight, nothing more, nothing less. But how much frieght is there for this $1B line?

The only freight that would find this line useful is traffic from SW Sydney such as the coal mines (if they still operate) and mountains. The reason the project was cancelled way back then was because the coal traffic simply failed to materialise, plus the state was in a world of debt and hence the project was no longer viable or needed.

Instead of blowing a $1B on a line that was see a handful of trains a day, take that $1B from the feds, match it with state govt funds to get $2B and upgrade the South coast line between Waterfall and Wollongong. Cut traveling time by 15-20min easy, which includes freight and with the double track increase track capacity significantly and reduce delays from operating a single line. The operating cost savings are significant for all. Cut 15min on the passenger service and you remove a set and crew from service or to be used to increase capacity.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Spend part of that $2bn and electrify to Bomaderry and make further savings and free up Endeavour sets for use elsewhere.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Spend part of that $2bn and electrify to Bomaderry and make further savings and free up Endeavour sets for use elsewhere.
james.au
That too...
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Emu rat race from Cambo to the Gong , how many freight paths would there be if sparks were toing and frowing on such a line .
If the State Government was so concerned about the above pass demand let them offer to pay for it or better still ask private enterprise to run it and charge what it really costs . No takers ? People still in their cars ?
I'm shocked ...
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Emu rat race from Cambo to the Gong , how many freight paths would there be if sparks were toing and frowing on such a line .
If the State Government was so concerned about the above pass demand let them offer to pay for it or better still ask private enterprise to run it and charge what it really costs . No takers ? People still in their cars ?
I'm shocked ...
BDA
I think this whole passenger services on the M-D line was purely a misunderstanding and I don't think anyone has proposed it.

What a few of us are saying is pretty much, forget spending $1B on the M-D line, throw that at the South Coast line and actually try and make a start on resolving some of the issues for both freight and passenger services.
  fzr560 Train Controller

Emu rat race from Cambo to the Gong , how many freight paths would there be if sparks were toing and frowing on such a line .
If the State Government was so concerned about the above pass demand let them offer to pay for it or better still ask private enterprise to run it and charge what it really costs . No takers ? People still in their cars ?
I'm shocked ...
I think this whole passenger services on the M-D line was purely a misunderstanding and I don't think anyone has proposed it.

What a few of us are saying is pretty much, forget spending $1B on the M-D line, throw that at the South Coast line and actually try and make a start on resolving some of the issues for both freight and passenger services.
RTT_Rules
It was proposed. It was to eliminate all those buses. For the beach goers, the visitors to Jamberoo and the Uni students....
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Don't forget the original idea was spawned in the pre privatization days meaning freight and pass under the one State Govt umbrella .
If some here think MD is a great freight path into Sydney have a closer look .

PITA journey from Pt Kembla Yards to Unanderra then climb a steep grade just to get to Dombarton . The diesels are going to be working hard just to get into the proposed tunnel so heat and exhaust issues would be a problem even if the tunnel was level - which it won't be . Think Illawarra range tunnel west bound if you've ever work trains up to Moss Vale that way .
After all this you're dumped out at Mauldon which is still a considerable distance from the Enfield area and the SSFL is a single line with only two crossing opportunities .
By comparison the distance from say Unanderra North/Conniston to Enfield is much shorter .
The things that cost freight trains so much time on the Illawarra are reasonably easy to fix .
1) Pathetic slow speed junction at Meeks Road , spare me - 15 km/h - in 2017 ...
2) Pathetic signal sighting going into the down refuge at Waterfall , makes a mockery of the 50 km/h turnout .
3) Pathetic 25 km/h departure speed at the south end of Waterfall down refuge .
4) Pathetic speed for all traffic on the down main through Waterfall station .
5) Pathetic practice of Sydney/NSW trains standing their tin cans for extended time periods on the mainline platform roads at Wollongong .

Fix some / all of these issues and the freighters feed through the Illawarra a lot faster . Win for everyone .

The operators could also consider spending on things like ECP brakes for unit trains and then have a chance of asking for higher operating speeds - in places where Sydney Trains has pathetic low speed boards to limit freight train speeds because they don't think they can stop otherwise .

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