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Shepparton pax rail

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      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    A new report out (by Greater Step Council) about pax rail to Shepparton.

    http://greatershepparton.com.au/assets/files/documents/governance/meetings/2017/04/Item_10.11_-_Shepparton_Passenger_Rail_Services_Project_.pdf

    IMHO, doesn't really talk enough about the needs/demand.  Its got some options and some good discussion, but they haven't yet justified why it should be done and seems to just replicate the rail futures ideas.
    Posted: 25 Apr 2017 11:06

    Last edited by james.au on 25 Apr 2017 11:06; edited 1 time in total

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      woodford Chief Commissioner

    Traralgon/Morwell/ Warragul area have  a population simliiar in size to Sheppaton, Traralgon is 161 kilometres and Shep is 184k's yet Traralgon has a train every hour, Shep service is completely miserable by comparison.Shep is never going to get a 160kph service, it being far and away to expensive to upgrade the line to Seymour, 130kph running though is quite exceptable.

    It appears the governemnt/VLine is doing a "NE line" job on Shep, you run a completely crap service so one can justify doing nothing because of poor passenger numbers.

    woodford
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 06:33

    Last edited by woodford on 26 Apr 2017 06:34; edited 1 time in total
      skitz Chief Commissioner

    Traralgon/Morwell/ Warragul area have  a population simliiar in size to Sheppaton, Traralgon is 161 kilometres and Shep is 184k's yet Traralgon has a train every hour, Shep service is completely miserable by comparison.Shep is never going to get a 160kph service, it being far and away to expensive to upgrade the line to Seymour, 130kph running though is quite exceptable.

    It appears the governemnt/VLine is doing a "NE line" job on Shep, you run a completely crap service so one can justify doing nothing because of poor passenger numbers.

    woodford
    woodford
    Similar population?  

    Warragul/Drouin = about 43000
    Latrobe Valley (Moe, Morwell, Traralgon) = about 56000
    Add the little places along the way 1000 to 3000 people depending on the town, too.

    Shepparton = about 50,000

    I agree that the service is miserable and also the mode of crap service = less passengers = less justification.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 07:23
      damooops Junior Train Controller

    Location: The Revenue Raising State
    G'day all.
    I believe the governments longer term plan is to have 5 services a day each way to all the regional lines including Shepparton. But it would obviously involve building a crossing location or two between Seymour and Shepparton.
    Cheers all.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 07:38
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    The Gippsland line has the highest level of local passenger commuter journeys of all V/Lines routes (such as passengers traveling from Warragul to Traralgon for work)

    Also Traralgon station Is located at the 158 km post from Spencer Street Station datum point.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 07:47
      DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

    Mildura has equal population with Shepparton.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 09:24
      Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

    Location: Yarra Glen
    G'day all.
    I believe the governments longer term plan is to have 5 services a day each way to all the regional lines including Shepparton. But it would obviously involve building a crossing location or two between Seymour and Shepparton.
    Cheers all.
    damooops
    Five services a day is hardly consistent with a train every hour.  Will services to Traralgon be reduced?
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 09:36
      The Vinelander Minister for Railways

    Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
    Mildura has equal population with Shepparton.
    DalyWaters

    Shepparton is potentially a commutable distance from Melbourne, particularly when the track is upgraded from Seymour and level crossing issues are rectified...Mildura is not.

    Nevertheless, Mildura has up to 5 V/Line services a day to/from Melbourne and no less than 4.

    Mike.

    https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/eed28fd0-3b05-4a2a-8cc1-dfb15afacda8/Mildura-Melbourne-(via-Donald,-Maryborough-and-(1)

    https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/19e67ce6-d5ed-47df-a94e-4b673448e6cf/Mildura-Melbourne-(via-Swan-Hill-and-Bendigo)-(2)
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 13:10
      BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

    Location: Maldon Junction
    A new report out (by Greater Step Council) about pax rail to Shepparton.

    http://greatershepparton.com.au/assets/files/documents/governance/meetings/2017/04/Item_10.11_-_Shepparton_Passenger_Rail_Services_Project_.pdf

    IMHO, doesn't really talk enough about the needs/demand.  Its got some options and some good discussion, but they haven't yet justified why it should be done and seems to just replicate the rail futures ideas.
    james.au
    If the GV line is to be standardised at some stage in the next decade I can't see VLine spending a heap of $$$ on it in the meantime.

    Leading up to standardisation (presuming it happens) there will have to be some decisions made re rolling stock, timetabling etc. and that will be dependant on what patronage growth occurs in the meantime.

    BG
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 13:21
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Mike,

    Looks like there is clearly demand for the services with 5?
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 13:23
      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    If you look in the economic analysis, there is currently a capacity of approx 550,000 seats per year, of which 155,000 seats are used - this is a load of 28%, which is pretty poor.  In the airline world - this service would be axed.

    One possibility is that they could cut up the carriages like they've done with Albury - make more frequent services with the same carriages, and lift patronage that way.

    Sadly the report it is short on other datapoints such as the number of Shepparton resident people joining the train at Seymour, and if possible, the number of toll gate passthroughs by Shepparton registered vehicles.  That would provide some useful information that could give an indication of the potential market, instead of the shotgun assumption of doubling and tripling of service use.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 13:37
      The Vinelander Minister for Railways

    Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
    Mike,

    Looks like there is clearly demand for the services with 5?
    bevans

    The 10:25 out of Mildura last Saturday was around a third full and almost filled up at Robinvale with another 20 getting on.

    The overnight bus which leaves Mildura at 21:50 which fills the role of the former Vinelander is the least popular service due to the popularity of the various early morning/early afternoon services.

    Mike.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 16:01
      kuldalai Chief Commissioner

    G'day all.
    I believe the governments longer term plan is to have 5 services a day each way to all the regional lines including Shepparton. But it would obviously involve building a crossing location or two between Seymour and Shepparton.
    Cheers all.
    damooops
    One can run with V/Locity on 130kmh  5 - 6 return trips a day without a crossing loop .  One only needs a crossing loop for pass purposes when service frequency goes above 6 trips a day .
    Posted: 26 Apr 2017 23:28
      woodford Chief Commissioner

    Traralgon/Morwell/ Warragul area have  a population simliiar in size to Sheppaton, Traralgon is 161 kilometres and Shep is 184k's yet Traralgon has a train every hour, Shep service is completely miserable by comparison.Shep is never going to get a 160kph service, it being far and away to expensive to upgrade the line to Seymour, 130kph running though is quite exceptable.

    It appears the governemnt/VLine is doing a "NE line" job on Shep, you run a completely crap service so one can justify doing nothing because of poor passenger numbers.

    woodford
    woodford
    Similar population?  

    Warragul/Drouin = about 43000
    Latrobe Valley (Moe, Morwell, Traralgon) = about 56000
    Add the little places along the way 1000 to 3000 people depending on the town, too.

    Shepparton = about 50,000

    I agree that the service is miserable and also the mode of crap service = less passengers = less justification.
    "skitz"


    Yes, the area has long been a rich irrigated fruit growing location, while there is only one large town, there are dozens of smaller towns ranging from 7000 to 500 people. Total population is well over 120,000. Patronage is currently poor as the service is poor. Remember the distance from Shep to Seymour is only 82 kilometres and its an EXCELLENT road and its an hourily service from Seymour. As with people from the Benalla, Yarrawonga area they are driving to Seymour, the car park at Seymour being full by 0700

    woodford
    Posted: 27 Apr 2017 08:21

    Last edited by woodford on 27 Apr 2017 08:23; edited 2 times in total
      woodford Chief Commissioner

    Post Script, to the above post....................

    If you want to see a busy road try the Shepparton Cobram road some time, its murder. The road through Mooroopna North to the Kyabram Echuca area, not being far behind.

    woodford
    Posted: 27 Apr 2017 08:38
      tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

    Shepparton passenger services could be upgraded as part of Inland rail.    The victorian govt could help twist the arm of the feds and give a promise of 10 passenger services each way per day.  

    Inland rail via shepparton could see the eastern track of the current broad gauge to seymour gauge converted and upgraded to 160km/h running and at least 130 km/h running from seymour to shepparton with a few more passing loops.
    Posted: 27 Apr 2017 08:41
      woodford Chief Commissioner

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, ths brings up a thought...........................

    Why did they close Cobram station and line and set up a freight centre in the middle of nowhere at Tocumwal. One day in the not to distance future they are going to have to build new railway bridge across the murray, the old lift bridge surely living on borrowed time (it not being used as a road bridge any more). A frieght centre at Cobram would save this expense as well as very likely taking some  of the many trucks off the road to Shep.

    woodford
    Posted: 27 Apr 2017 08:47

    Last edited by woodford on 27 Apr 2017 08:49; edited 1 time in total
      DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

    Mildura has equal population with Shepparton.

    Shepparton is potentially a commutable distance from Melbourne, particularly when the track is upgraded from Seymour and level crossing issues are rectified...Mildura is not.
    The Vinelander
    Why on earth should we spend a fortune in taxes encouraging people to commute from Shepparton to Melbourne?  It is wrong.

    Shepparton is Shepparton.  A major provincial town and hub for the region.  It should be nothing more or nothing less.  Just like Mildura is.

    Having said that,the current service is poor for the size of the population.  If a large number of people are driving to Seymour to connect with the frequent service there, wouldn't a shuttle coach connection between Seymour and Shepparton, providing more frequency for Shepparton, help determine any need for more frequent trains?

    After all, it seems the coach patronage is good enough as a determiner for a Mildura rail service.
    Posted: 27 Apr 2017 09:44

    Last edited by DalyWaters on 27 Apr 2017 09:50; edited 1 time in total
      hbedriver Chief Train Controller

    Re Cobram; they didn't run any goods out of there for years before the line closed. It only ran passenger trains through the 1980's until closure. I visited first in 1977 and even then there was no freight. My last train ride (1991) there was no sign of any rails being used apart from the run round and the platform track. Tocumwal always had the goods.

    Tocumwal was re-opened as a freight place in 1995 after the line from Strathmerton was fire damaged (was that Freight Australia days?) Two private operators use this for their trains (PN and QUBE), loading various containerised products plus grain. PN currently run 3 trains weekly, QUBE usually another one or two, plus grain trains at times daily; they can often run 10 trains weekly out of there. Its location on the Newell Highway with excellent access into southern NSW (plus some local Victorian loading) makes it easy to use for freight users; conversely Cobram would see a long detour over indifferent roads, which could see traffic lost to rail.

    The Murray River bridge; is that in a bad condition? They have a permanent 15km/h limit over it, but that's due to the lifting span arrangement. Unaware of any issues with it that may force closure, and they still run all classes of locos over it.

    Cobram pass may or may not justify reinstatement; I don't know enough of the area to comment. Quite frankly I think they would be better off spending the same money running a poor man's ATC from Seymour to Shepparton (crossing loop at Murchison East, maybe with an island platform; motorised points at Toolamba for the junction) with perhaps re-opening of Toolamba as a passenger station (the growth of houses out there is surprising). A dozen or so level crossings to install boom barriers, maybe ease the curves at Nagambie, Murchison East and Mooroopna, and you can run railcars at hourly or 90 minute intervals. Easy. Would also make running goods trains a lot easier.

    Give that a few years and then see whether they have generated a demand from Numurkah/Cobram (or Tocumwal).
    Posted: 27 Apr 2017 09:54
      574M White Guru

    Location: Shepparton
    The seat is currently held by an independent who has made a lot of noise and garnered a lot of attention. So we get Libs, Nats, Greens and Labor people come up, make announcements, and very quickly get themselves on Win TV or in the Shep News. So lots of action from Spring Street.

    Early morning service doesn't have a lot of traffic at Shepparton, but becomes a commuter service at Seymour.

    Latest budget has a lot of money promised from Spring street, extra services, passing loop and a new stabling location. However, second UP and last DOWN may remain loco hauled trains with buffet for people with bus connections to/from Griffith, Kyabram, Barmah, etc. Currently, these two services are full.


    Earlier in this thread it was noted that the real issue is to get travellers off road and using trains. 2 hours 15 services are marginally faster than cars from Melb CBD to Shepparton.  

    Bus connections Shepparton to Seymour are frequently full, as is Seymour car park.

    I note all crossings beyond Shepparton are dual gauge.

    The most recent 1-in-5 replacement was done with wooden sleepers, not concrete.

    Jury is out; still think they are going to sg this line after the other lines (VLine Murray Basin plan) are completed.
    Posted: 15 Jun 2017 21:55
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    Shep should definitely go standard gauge, and the broad gauge converted down to Wallan at the minimum.

    Urban planning to the north has been lacklustre at best, and has unfortunately been focused away from rail on the western side of the Hume Highway.  The Urban Growth Boundary has been extended from Craigieburn up to Wallan, beyond which terrain becomes less conducive to sprawl, with a development corridor bound roughly by Epping Rd and Old Sydney Rd.  The townships beyond will see less intensive, isolated development.  



    What I'm interested to see what they plan to do in terms of servicing this growth with rail.

    Northeastern regional services should join with airport services and enter the city via Sunshine, with three track pairs to the city (the other two serving Wyndham, Melton and Sunbury).  Now, capacity here would be constrained from the need to share with Bendigo and Ballarat services (assuming Geelong taken off by Newport-Southern Cross), hence the impact of urban growth beyond Craigieburn needs to be investigated.  

    It may be necessary to extend existing BG spark services (via Essendon) from Craigieburn up to Donnybrook or Wallan to put a damper on the amount of SG services (via Albion) required.
    Posted: 15 Jun 2017 23:44

    Last edited by ZH836301 on 15 Jun 2017 23:47; edited 3 times in total
      railblogger Chief Commissioner

    Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
    It may be necessary to extend existing BG spark services (via Essendon) from Craigieburn up to Donnybrook or Wallan to put a damper on the amount of SG services (via Albion) required.
    If you're going to do that you may also wish to do a signalling upgrade of the Craigieburn line, as it can currently only handle trains at 3 minute intervals: http://www.metrotrains.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/372.pdf. That would allow the line to cater for growth on the existing section as well.
    Posted: 16 Jun 2017 12:22

    Last edited by railblogger on 16 Jun 2017 12:24; edited 2 times in total
      Moncar Station Staff

    As one of the surveyors on the Nagambie bypass i can tell you that the railway bridges at locksley rd and Kirwans bridge were built to accommodate the height of double stacked containers and the plans showed the allignments of a future second line.
    It was always fun to set up at 9.00am on the bridge abutments and watch the N classes pass underneath on the down sheparton service.
    Posted: 16 Jun 2017 14:30
      HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

    Location: Echuca
    I was at a meeting in Echuca where the rail access to the Port and the A2 were being discussed and the PTV were there. They stated that the Shepparton lines including the line from Toolamba to Deniliquin was the next line to be updated after Mildura.  

    Also when they do level crossing works in the regional areas it is standard practice to put the standard gauge rail in as well.  They did so at the Pakenham St crossing in Echuca recently but didn't put in the track to the silos so that's now isolated. I expect standard gauge in some of the crossings on the Shepparton line were done under this policy
    Posted: 16 Jun 2017 18:10

    Last edited by HardWorkingMan on 16 Jun 2017 18:11; edited 1 time in total
      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    5th passenger service for Shepparton this year (of course, its an election year...).

    http://www.suzannasheed.com.au/sheed_welcomes_fast_tracked_train_service
    Posted: 21 Mar 2018 21:05

    Last edited by james.au on 21 Mar 2018 21:07; edited 2 times in total

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