My feelings go out to the train crew but otherwise a good news story

 
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/kingsgrove-train-death-graffiti-vandal-struck-and-killed-on-tracks/news-story/dc5c183761e80441c26267338b70d227


AN ALLEGED graffiti vandal was struck killed by a train in Sydney’s south overnight, after darting between railway tracks defacing stationary carriages.

Just after 12am this morning emergency services were called to Vanessa St, Kingsgrove, after reports of a man being hit by a train near Kingsgrove Train Station


Police entered the railyard through security gates stationed along Vanessa St, which run parallel to the tracks, and inspected the stopped train — where they discovered the deceased man’s body.
The train had just left Kingsgrove station heading south towards Macarthur, when it is understood to have hit the man, who was alleged to have been fleeing from another train which he had vandalised close by.

It is unknown at this point how the man entered the highly secured railway area — with police doing preliminary sweeps of the razor-sharp, barbed wire fencing lining the sides of the train area.
Passengers were stuck on board for about an hour while emergency services secured and inspected the scene.
It wasn’t until about 1.20am that disgruntled and tired passengers on board were able to disembark from the train and onto buses to take them on to their destination.


One passenger, who did not give her name, said she hadn’t felt or heard a thing, but that a person on board with her believed he may have seen the person under the train.
“Someone in the carriage with us said he saw the body,” the woman said.

Another weary traveller, who also did not wish to be identified, remarked said she thought she heard a noise right before the train applied the brakes.
City rail suspended all southbound trains between Turrella and Macarthur on the Airport Line while forensics examined the scene, and released a statement announcing they do not yet have a forecast of when the line will be reopened.
The deceased man has not yet been formally identified and a report will be prepared for the information of the Coroner.
Investigations are ongoing.

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  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Not the first time. Hopefully it won't be the last, either.  Hope the bloke up the front doesn't suffer too much from it, IMHO, he's performed a public service.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Maybe he got what was coming to him?
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
A nomination for the Charles Darwin awards 2017.

Hopefully (though probably not) the publicity will discourage others from emulating.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The train provided the community service and same I could care less if more of these leaches on society and chopped up this way.

But nearly 2hr before the passengers were able to get off the train, this is the bad news part story. Passengers should be removed within 30-45min, not a minute longer and no this is not the first time and no its not limited to NSW. The able bodied should have been able to go fairly quickly with assistance if needed. The lessor abled within 30-45min tops once emergency services arrive.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
The train provided the community service and same I could care less if more of these leaches on society and chopped up this way.
RTT_Rules
I suppose I should be happy you've still got some reserve of sympathy in the tank for these people, Arteetee. Personally, after having to clean up their defacings once too often at the museum, I couldn't care less.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
The old regulation in a case like this was for the body to be removed if necessary and for services to be continued as soon as possible.
In the late 60's a passenger heading to Sydney on one of the night Mails is believed to have opened the wrong door around 2am in the morning thinking it was the toilet and stepped out onto the Down Main and died as a result of their injuries.
This unfortunately was not the first time a passenger had made a fatal mistake and chosen the wrong door.
In cases like this, it was assumed to be a case of a mistaken door but the other options were suicide or someone, sober or otherwise, standing in the open doorway and being 'ejected' if the carriage lurched which they oft did in those days.
The deceased was found by a goods train heading west and reported at the next attended station and the body remained where it fell for several hours before being removed but other than the Drivers being warned about the 'obstruction', there was no disruption to any other trains.

Those on board this train should have been removed as quickly as possible.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The train provided the community service and same I could care less if more of these leaches on society and chopped up this way.
I suppose I should be happy you've still got some reserve of sympathy in the tank for these people, Arteetee. Personally, after having to clean up their defacings once too often at the museum, I couldn't care less.
apw5910
My grammar wasn't the best.

We are on the same page.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

As a traveller on the overnight expresses and mail trains I often saw inebriated men standing beside open doorways 'getting air'. Train Staff closed the doors and admonished the Darwin Candidates but as soon as the conductor disappeared they opened the doors again. I don't think a car doorway could be mistaken for a toilet door, after all there was that blast of 70mph frigid air.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The old regulation in a case like this was for the body to be removed if necessary and for services to be continued as soon as possible.
In the late 60's a passenger heading to Sydney on one of the night Mails is believed to have opened the wrong door around 2am in the morning thinking it was the toilet and stepped out onto the Down Main and died as a result of their injuries.
This unfortunately was not the first time a passenger had made a fatal mistake and chosen the wrong door.
In cases like this, it was assumed to be a case of a mistaken door but the other options were suicide or someone, sober or otherwise, standing in the open doorway and being 'ejected' if the carriage lurched which they oft did in those days.
The deceased was found by a goods train heading west and reported at the next attended station and the body remained where it fell for several hours before being removed but other than the Drivers being warned about the 'obstruction', there was no disruption to any other trains.

Those on board this train should have been removed as quickly as possible.
gordon_s1942
Gordon, the regulations were changed to the point where a fatality caused by a train became in affect a crime scene, deemed as such because the deceased was trespassing on the ROW, the body if it was not under the train, be it in parts or complete had to be examined by the police examiner before being removed to the chop shop for autopsy.  Passengers generally had to remain on the train for their own good, as none would be too fussed about seeing the body.

The driver should have been relieved asap, naturally he would have had to undergo mandatory drug and alchohol tests, and hopefully released and taken home rather than just being let out the hospital door. The train would not be removed though until all measurements etc were taken.
  allsmiles Station Master

I am not going to pretend that the person was doing the right thing or had any good reason to be where he was. This report is yet another warning to those who want to play around trains, there are no second chances, when thing go wrong more often than not it is final.

Maybe some of you do not want to acknowledge the fact that this is a life lost, albeit by the persons own doings, but, somewhere there is a family, somewhere there is an officer of the law who will pull the short straw and have to go and take the news to those for whom it belongs, that a life has been lost.

There is also the railway people who are involved and the toll these things take on their lives.

It is for those who are left behind, and most probably did not and do not condone the actions of the one lost that we should offer a more respectful and measured approach to the way we voice our feelings.

How could such a report be a good news story?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I am not going to pretend that the person was doing the right thing or had any good reason to be where he was. This report is yet another warning to those who want to play around trains, there are no second chances, when thing go wrong more often than not it is final.

Maybe some of you do not want to acknowledge the fact that this is a life lost, albeit by the persons own doings, but, somewhere there is a family, somewhere there is an officer of the law who will pull the short straw and have to go and take the news to those for whom it belongs, that a life has been lost.

There is also the railway people who are involved and the toll these things take on their lives.

It is for those who are left behind, and most probably did not and do not condone the actions of the one lost that we should offer a more respectful and measured approach to the way we voice our feelings.

How could such a report be a good news story?
allsmiles
I understand your point, however this is my position.

I think the visual impact of this incident on the train crew, other railway staff and emergency services goes without staying and most if not all of us are well of that and our thoughts are with these people, again!

The issue is most law abiding taxpayers and former taxpayers enjoying retirement are well and truely fed up with these morons abusing other peoples property (not just trains) with their technicolour BS and despite decades of warnings, well published fatalities, probably $100's millions spent on security trying to keep the idiots out, mother nature is breeding better idiots with every new generation hell bent to roll the dice with the railway version of the Grim Reeper.

Hence I think you will be hard up finding any respect for the deceased poor choices. Yes there is a family in the background who are now grieving (hopefully) and I'm sure in some cases some blame could be thrown their way for their choices. Note I have two young boys and the thought that one day this could be them is not lost on me.

So what next to protect taxpayers property and these people from themselves? History has shown more money isn't working.
  allsmiles Station Master

I should point out that there is very little comment or reference that I have made about the deceased, it is impossible to condone his actions and the consequences of making a mistake are widely advertised.  

Protecting taxpayers, or any bodies property for that matter is a different story, and I for one would be happy for those caught made to clean up their deeds, and give back extra in some way, to compensate for their actions.

The moment you take a hard line with these morons there is always some one who seems to think they do not deserve to be punished. This is causing an erosion of our values and a loss of respect, which is what I am referring to when I pose the question how can it be a good news story. Where are we demonstrating respect? (That is a question that I don't particularly want a response to, it is more a challenge for each of us to think about.)

The people that protect these perpetrators from a just and learning punishment have such incidents as the one referred to above on their heads, and only when it is brought home to them and they realize that their misguided protection is causing the problems to escalate can we ever hope to see change.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

These problems started when they got rid of the cane at schools. Kids think they can do whatever they want to these days without consequence. Bringing the cane back will put fear back into the modern runt and maybe some discipline.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
I dont know if this has changed but after talking to a Driver and Guard of an Interurban Train that had been involved in a suicide, the Driver said that all they asked him was a few questions and but the Guard was literally given the '3rd Degree'  at the hearing.
The reason the Guard was question so extensively was because the Guard was the 'Employee in charge of the Train' and responsible for the Drivers actions.
  ssaunders Train Controller

Anyone being killed on the network is not a good news story. While you don't have to be sympathetic no need for the cheer squad.

Passenger should have been removed straight away, this is a continuing problem with Sydney Trains which needs direct attention before the next bunch of passengers is stuck for hours.

ss
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE


Passenger should have been removed straight away, this is a continuing problem with Sydney Trains which needs direct attention before the next bunch of passengers is stuck for hours.

ss
ssaunders
A few years back I read in Brisbane it was over 2hr to get people off and the location wasn't on top of a bridge or anything complex. And the train had no power and hence AC. FFS, is it that F'n hard (I know the safety nazi's) to put a ladder along side the train and allow the able bodied people to walk down and be guided to the nearest exit on foot? The less able'ed can be dealt with separately and they will always take longer.

Many (many) years back I had to go to Eastwood for an operation, the train stopped just short of Epping for 45min, no explanation on why stopped and when to move. I was 20 so mother 42, jumped out of the train and walked to station and caught taxi. I wonder what happens today if after 1hr you said F_it, I'm leaving?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Consideration of the passengers' well being is virtually non existent in Melbourne.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The reason the Guard was question so extensively was because the Guard was the 'Employee in charge of the Train' and responsible for the Drivers actions.
"gordon_1942"
That sounds like a load of old hogwash to me. I wouldn't want to be the one telling any Victorian driver that he wasn't in charge. The reply would be very concise and very un-parliamentary.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner



Passenger should have been removed straight away, this is a continuing problem with Sydney Trains which needs direct attention before the next bunch of passengers is stuck for hours.

ssA few years back I read in Brisbane it was over 2hr to get people off and the location wasn't on top of a bridge or anything complex. And the train had no power and hence AC. FFS, is it that F'n hard (I know the safety nazi's) to put a ladder along side the train and allow the able bodied people to walk down and be guided to the nearest exit on foot? The less able'ed can be dealt with separately and they will always take longer.

Many (many) years back I had to go to Eastwood for an operation, the train stopped just short of Epping for 45min, no explanation on why stopped and when to move. I was 20 so mother 42, jumped out of the train and walked to station and caught taxi. I wonder what happens today if after 1hr you said F_it, I'm leaving?
RTT_Rules
Not a great idea these days as people are becoming sillier by the day. I was on pre-Tangara set travelling to Cheltenham and we came to a halt at the signals just east of the Hume Highway bridge at Ashfield. Observed this guy in an agitated state running up and down the train. Before anything could be done to restrain him he exited the train between 2 of the cars and was immediately collected by a speeding up train on the adjacent track. So embarking from a train other than under SOP's can be dangerous. We were then stuck there for 90 minutes but I did not mind as the area became a crime scene and the various authorities had to work through their relevant procedures.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE


Passenger should have been removed straight away, this is a continuing problem with Sydney Trains which needs direct attention before the next bunch of passengers is stuck for hours.

ssA few years back I read in Brisbane it was over 2hr to get people off and the location wasn't on top of a bridge or anything complex. And the train had no power and hence AC. FFS, is it that F'n hard (I know the safety nazi's) to put a ladder along side the train and allow the able bodied people to walk down and be guided to the nearest exit on foot? The less able'ed can be dealt with separately and they will always take longer.

Many (many) years back I had to go to Eastwood for an operation, the train stopped just short of Epping for 45min, no explanation on why stopped and when to move. I was 20 so mother 42, jumped out of the train and walked to station and caught taxi. I wonder what happens today if after 1hr you said F_it, I'm leaving?Not a great idea these days as people are becoming sillier by the day. I was on pre-Tangara set travelling to Cheltenham and we came to a halt at the signals just east of the Hume Highway bridge at Ashfield. Observed this guy in an agitated state running up and down the train. Before anything could be done to restrain him he exited the train between 2 of the cars and was immediately collected by a speeding up train on the adjacent track. So embarking from a train other than under SOP's can be dangerous. We were then stuck there for 90 minutes but I did not mind as the area became a crime scene and the various authorities had to work through their relevant procedures.
nswtrains
Ouch, messy!

Not hard to get off on the side there are no tracks, but as you said, people are becoming sillier and things like ICE isn't helping.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Even a planned disembarkation at anything other than a station can go awry. The ATSB is currently investigating just how CityRail managed to nearly get their passengers run over by the XPT at Kilbride last year, detraining them across the track...

The problem is arranging protection on adjacent lines. Even an ASB these days requires 2 controlled signals at stop, or a ESML key removal. You're not always able to get that. ASB is more geared to working on track, it requires you to tell workers about safe places, etc.

I can see a crew being keelhauled by a Coroner if they used ASB to detrain their passengers and one ignored their directions and got run over on a live line. You also have two people being responsible for perhaps several hundred. Quite often, the risk assessment will show it is better to cause your passengers a great deal of discomfort to keep them safe, while you arrange another train to push you clear. Also, ASB is perhaps one of the most screwed-up methods of working by crew and signallers. Just look at the number of official investigations into breaches - and these don't involve untrained/belligerent/cranky passengers! The Kilbride investigation is going to make interesting, if not new, reading...
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Too simple if the train is not mechanically disabled and the victim is dead to get a relief crew and drive to the next station especially if the train is clear of the deceased.
Too many nannies and bureaucrats to please these days.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Too simple if the train is not mechanically disabled and the victim is dead to get a relief crew and drive to the next station especially if the train is clear of the deceased.
Too many nannies and bureaucrats to please these days.
YM-Mundrabilla
Not a lot you can do when the police declare it a crime scene
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Depending on where the body ended up, it might not be so easy to do what you sugguest YM.

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