Can Heritage Trams Run On The Network?

 
  ogigacz Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is it still possible for heritage trams (i.e, ones with poles instead of pantographs) to run on the Melbourne network?

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  route14 Chief Commissioner

Yes, but it would be a rather complicated process.  At every point the driver would have to change to the front pole (or swing the pole around in the case of single pole trams) to get around the crossing of wires before resuming normal operation.  Poles would also need to be reconnected at every air gap.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In practical terms NO.
Given Melbourne's fleet of historic trams they would be a terrific drawcard to the city if they ran regularly albeit fitted with the necessary pantographs.
  Matthew Train Controller

In practical terms NO.
Given Melbourne's fleet of historic trams they would be a terrific drawcard to the city if they ran regularly albeit fitted with the necessary pantographs.
YM-Mundrabilla

Prague (and other cities) have turned the poles on their heritage trams into a sort of pantograph by locking the pole into position and clipping a small pantograph like head to the top of the pole.

This enables the heritage tram to operate on special occasions, but not substantially alter a heritage item.

On a visit to Prague years ago, I didn't get to see any pole/photographs but the 'regular' heritage fleet had been fitted with pantographs, old style diamond units and not modern out of place looking single arms. The diamond pantos didn't look all that out of place on the old cars, unlike tossing a modern Ausbreak on the roof does.

If there was the will, a way could be found.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In practical terms NO.
Given Melbourne's fleet of historic trams they would be a terrific drawcard to the city if they ran regularly albeit fitted with the necessary pantographs.

Prague (and other cities) have turned the poles on their heritage trams into a sort of pantograph by locking the pole into position and clipping a small pantograph like head to the top of the pole.

This enables the heritage tram to operate on special occasions, but not substantially alter a heritage item.

On a visit to Prague years ago, I didn't get to see any pole/photographs but the 'regular' heritage fleet had been fitted with pantographs, old style diamond units and not modern out of place looking single arms. The diamond pantos didn't look all that out of place on the old cars, unlike tossing a modern Ausbreak on the roof does.

If there was the will, a way could be found.
Matthew
'On a visit to Prague years ago, I didn't get to see any pole/photographs but the 'regular' heritage fleet had been fitted with pantographs, old style diamond units and not modern out of place looking single arms. The diamond pantos didn't look all that out of place on the old cars, unlike tossing a modern Ausbreak on the roof does.'

A couple of vintage Prague trams with pantographs here:

http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2087&mode=view
http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2605&mode=view

Pantographs would be but a small sacrifice to make to have an operational fleet of vintage trams.
  Matthew Train Controller

A couple of vintage Prague trams with pantographs here:

http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2087&mode=view
http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2605&mode=view

Pantographs would be but a small sacrifice to make to have an operational fleet of vintage trams.
YM-Mundrabilla

I've ridden on 351 in Prague. It's also been fitted with a transponder so it can control the points and trip traffic lights. It operates a regular 'touristic' service on Sundays. (Or did, I expect they swap the cars around to spread the wear-n-tear.)

But DPP in Prague are proud of their heritage and want to display it. Melbourne's operator does what PTV pays it to do and nothing more.
  trainguy84 Junior Train Controller

A couple of vintage Prague trams with pantographs here:

http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2087&mode=view
http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2605&mode=view

Pantographs would be but a small sacrifice to make to have an operational fleet of vintage trams.

I've ridden on 351 in Prague. It's also been fitted with a transponder so it can control the points and trip traffic lights. It operates a regular 'touristic' service on Sundays. (Or did, I expect they swap the cars around to spread the wear-n-tear.)

But DPP in Prague are proud of their heritage and want to display it. Melbourne's operator does what PTV pays it to do and nothing more.
Matthew

Take a look at San Francisco, they run a lot of old trams, even some from around the world. They are even expanding where the old trams can run
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

A couple of vintage Prague trams with pantographs here:

http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2087&mode=view
http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2605&mode=view

Pantographs would be but a small sacrifice to make to have an operational fleet of vintage trams.

I've ridden on 351 in Prague. It's also been fitted with a transponder so it can control the points and trip traffic lights. It operates a regular 'touristic' service on Sundays. (Or did, I expect they swap the cars around to spread the wear-n-tear.)

But DPP in Prague are proud of their heritage and want to display it. Melbourne's operator does what PTV pays it to do and nothing more.

Take a look at San Francisco, they run a lot of old trams, even some from around the world. They are even expanding where the old trams can run
trainguy84
Including at least one, maybe a couple of W-Class trams
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

A couple of vintage Prague trams with pantographs here:

http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2087&mode=view
http://railbastard.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=2605&mode=view

Pantographs would be but a small sacrifice to make to have an operational fleet of vintage trams.

I've ridden on 351 in Prague. It's also been fitted with a transponder so it can control the points and trip traffic lights. It operates a regular 'touristic' service on Sundays. (Or did, I expect they swap the cars around to spread the wear-n-tear.)

But DPP in Prague are proud of their heritage and want to display it. Melbourne's operator does what PTV pays it to do and nothing more.

Take a look at San Francisco, they run a lot of old trams, even some from around the world. They are even expanding where the old trams can run
Including at least one, maybe a couple of W-Class trams
John.Z
They still use trolley poles in SF and even though they use old street cars its a different proposition to a mix of modern and historic cars. Therefore any comparison is not really valid.
  kitchgp Deputy Commissioner

What happens with Melbourne Tram Museum's heritage fleet at the old Hawthorn depot?
  Matthew Train Controller

What happens with Melbourne Tram Museum's heritage fleet at the old Hawthorn depot?
kitchgp
When they took the W1 to Kew for the Kew centenary, it was loaded on a truck and taken to Kew and then pushed into the depot by another tram.

The W is apparently fully operable and could have been driven from Hawthorn to Kew with many stops to deal with the now pantograph only overhead.  But it is possible. Pole equipped trams have crossed parts of the network before. Lots of stops and the conductor moving the pole to the next bit of wire, but not impossible.

I was told at the time by one of it's 'attendants' that they got into trouble for putting the pole up to get the lights on. The tram was displayed with no interior lighting.

The trouble is mostly that PTV doesn't care and won't 'force' the private contractor to be more accommodating. If PTV told the operator that they wouldn't be fined for delays directly caused by the operation of a 'heritage' tram, they might be more accommodating to the operation of the heritage fleet.
There also may need to be a more sensible approach to accrediting drivers for the heritage fleet too. All current driver and driver trainer certifications for anything less than a modified city circle W class have apparently expired, so no one is approved to drive or even train other drivers to drive the heritage fleet. (which lack modern safety devices).

There appears to be no concept of the idea that an experienced senior driver could safely drive a heritage tram without tram model specific instruction and accreditation.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Is it still possible for heritage trams (i.e, ones with poles instead of pantographs) to run on the Melbourne network?
"ogigacz"
Removing the trolley poles deprived Melburnians of a great spectator sport. The trolley pole coming off the wires at somewhere like the middle of Camberwell Junction was entertainment at its best - the pole swinging, hitting this wire, then that one, then another with sparks and sound effects was a truly bizarre spectacle.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
What happens with Melbourne Tram Museum's heritage fleet at the old Hawthorn depot?
When they took the W1 to Kew for the Kew centenary, it was loaded on a truck and taken to Kew and then pushed into the depot by another tram.

The W is apparently fully operable and could have been driven from Hawthorn to Kew with many stops to deal with the now pantograph only overhead.  But it is possible. Pole equipped trams have crossed parts of the network before. Lots of stops and the conductor moving the pole to the next bit of wire, but not impossible.

I was told at the time by one of it's 'attendants' that they got into trouble for putting the pole up to get the lights on. The tram was displayed with no interior lighting.

The trouble is mostly that PTV doesn't care and won't 'force' the private contractor to be more accommodating. If PTV told the operator that they wouldn't be fined for delays directly caused by the operation of a 'heritage' tram, they might be more accommodating to the operation of the heritage fleet.
There also may need to be a more sensible approach to accrediting drivers for the heritage fleet too. All current driver and driver trainer certifications for anything less than a modified city circle W class have apparently expired, so no one is approved to drive or even train other drivers to drive the heritage fleet. (which lack modern safety devices).

There appears to be no concept of the idea that an experienced senior driver could safely drive a heritage tram without tram model specific instruction and accreditation.
Matthew
Sad but true.
The nanny state strikes again.
  trainguy84 Junior Train Controller

They still use trolley poles in SF and even though they use old street cars its a different proposition to a mix of modern and historic cars. Therefore any comparison is not really valid.
nswtrains
Apart from the decision to bring back old trams instead of removing them and replacing them with new ones. They have also reinstated some lines, and expanding lines so that heritage trams can run further
  trainguy84 Junior Train Controller

What happens with Melbourne Tram Museum's heritage fleet at the old Hawthorn depot?
When they took the W1 to Kew for the Kew centenary, it was loaded on a truck and taken to Kew and then pushed into the depot by another tram.

The W is apparently fully operable and could have been driven from Hawthorn to Kew with many stops to deal with the now pantograph only overhead.  But it is possible. Pole equipped trams have crossed parts of the network before. Lots of stops and the conductor moving the pole to the next bit of wire, but not impossible.

I was told at the time by one of it's 'attendants' that they got into trouble for putting the pole up to get the lights on. The tram was displayed with no interior lighting.

The trouble is mostly that PTV doesn't care and won't 'force' the private contractor to be more accommodating. If PTV told the operator that they wouldn't be fined for delays directly caused by the operation of a 'heritage' tram, they might be more accommodating to the operation of the heritage fleet.
There also may need to be a more sensible approach to accrediting drivers for the heritage fleet too. All current driver and driver trainer certifications for anything less than a modified city circle W class have apparently expired, so no one is approved to drive or even train other drivers to drive the heritage fleet. (which lack modern safety devices).

There appears to be no concept of the idea that an experienced senior driver could safely drive a heritage tram without tram model specific instruction and accreditation.
Sad but true.
The nanny state strikes again.
YM-Mundrabilla
I remember asking one of the people at The Hawthorne Tram Museum, and he said that a lot of the trams were up to running standard, but they were not allowed to run

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