Inland railway Melbourne - Brisbane

 
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
You could say the Ghan runs through less than nothing if the Inland runs through nothing!  

It could have merit.  But perhaps something like a Melbourne-Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne routing.  If the Qld NCL was SG, id say run Cairns-Melbourne but an east coast Triangle would work too.  

The inland is a sub 24 hour run for freighters.  Perhaps the train could stop somewhere at night for a few hours so as to maximise the out of window opportunities?  Or perhaps you could run a high quality sitter/lounge car train (high qual meals included) and have overnight stops say in Parkes, then Brisbane, then Sydney.  Though that is going to be pretty inconvenient for pax to train and detrain each night.  Not sure how many sitters there are either.  I wonder if it could also perhaps link in Adelaide in this format.  Though the Overland isn't seemingly generating the premiums to justify its existence so maybe that model isn't a goer either.

What about a Perth-Brisbane of some sort?  Second IP??  Or a round trip of some sort say PER-BNE-SYD-MEL-ADL?  Or just the BNE-SYD-MEL-ADL section?
james.au
Extending to/from Adelaide I thought of but same as you, Overland isn't a money winner and the Ghan extension was stopped assume for same reason.

Adelaide to Brisbane via Parkes....didn't think of this, but I'm also concerned its replicating an existing route that if there was demand GSR would service and previously read the numbers are less on IP from Sydney compared to Adelaide to west.

I think it has to be as much as possible different to anything on offer now by either GSR or a govt operator. Lets assume the Westlander doesn't survive or even if it does, the route is only common for the first 150km or so. There is obviously a significant overlap from southern NSW to Melbourne, but can only work with so much. Running the entire East Coast route, not so sure.

Option

North trip (actually day before above)
Leave Melbourne before evening peak so dinner in Vic country side arrive Parkes for Sydney bound IP, staying at Parkes for 30min or so to enable engine to change ends and on to Brisbane with Breakfast coming down the range arriving after AM Peak.


South trip
Depart from Brisbane to run via Parkes arriving again at Perth bound IP time 11pm. Enables a cosy run up the range having afternoon tea and a beer. Connection with IP means option for those travelling to Perth. Figured no point connecting from train from Melbourne as they can go via Overland now and southern corridor of Inland is less likely to attract bodies.

Dinner would be around Southern Qld crossing the border to Moree then on to Parkes staying at Parkes for 30min or so to enable engine to change ends on to Melbourne arriving after peak and enabling Breakfast while travelling through mid Victoria countryside.

Train is stabled in Melbourne and this enables easy transfer of rolling-stock using Overland to/from Adelaide as assume its all leased from GSR.

If there is no significant interest connecting with IP, then timetable is far more flexible.

Sponsored advertisement

  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
What about something perhaps simpler?  An early morning departure ex BNE of a rake of IP cars that are joined to the IP in Parkes?  And then in reverse, split them off at Parkes and they would arrive late evening into BNE?  Its pretty well what Amtrak does with the Empire Builder from Spokane to Seattle/Portland.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
What about something perhaps simpler?  An early morning departure ex BNE of a rake of IP cars that are joined to the IP in Parkes?  And then in reverse, split them off at Parkes and they would arrive late evening into BNE?  Its pretty well what Amtrak does with the Empire Builder from Spokane to Seattle/Portland.
james.au
Might work, Countrylink do with NW XPL.

Down side,
the trip to Brisbane will likely be 2 x that as time to Sydney and hence the current ~4hr turnaround in Sydney will need to be extended by 6-9hr with a very short turn around in Brisbane.

I also loose my trip to Melbourne.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I also loose my trip to Melbourne.
RTT_Rules

Convert the Overland to another IP and join it at Adelaide...!

Im having difficulty with Melbourne-Brisbane as a GSR style as there is just a bit less time than there should be.  Also, I haven't yet worked out how you would sleep them.  Relative to the IP and Gahn, there is a lot more to see out the window of a possible Inland Rail pax service.  Overnighting on the train seems a wast of scenery for half the journey.

Unless you just wrote that off and ran a train on a 24 hour cycle, so half of each trip would be in the dark but the opposite half in each direction?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
This is a bit interesting

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/australian-inland-rail-project-land-swap-to-seal-deal-for-queensland/news-story/0e2b80bf4e317d195ab8dfd531638568

The State Government [Queensland] is believed to be considering signing over ownership of the existing Goondiwindi to Toowoomba rail corridor – part of the South West Rail System – to the Commonwealth.
.

Might this suggest that the investigation as to where Inland Rail will go from the NSW border to Toowoomba might take it via Warwick?
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
This is a bit interesting

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/australian-inland-rail-project-land-swap-to-seal-deal-for-queensland/news-story/0e2b80bf4e317d195ab8dfd531638568

The State Government [Queensland] is believed to be considering signing over ownership of the existing Goondiwindi to Toowoomba rail corridor – part of the South West Rail System – to the Commonwealth.
.

Might this suggest that the investigation as to where Inland Rail will go from the NSW border to Toowoomba might take it via Warwick?
james.au
Not a chance in hell, the Inland Rail project wants the Western coal, Toowoomba containers and anything else they can pull of the western line to help make the Liverpool range crossing viable financially.

The only reason the Qld govt knows Goo-Too line and associated branches are redundant once the inland is built, although some parts of its will use the NG corridor although how much is still a work in progress and by handing over to the feds they are off loading responsibility for the costs of the line and who will miss out. The Feds can also deal with the dreamers in Warwick who want rail to go through their town, yet have zero benefit apart from construction and MTCE crews stopping for lunch.

All the Qld govt has to do in the future is
- Connect the Goodi branch to the new Inland near Yelarbon and potentially upgrade to Inland standards and likely SG.  
- Connect the Western line to the Inland at Kingsthorpe and decide whether or not to DG or gauge convert and upgrade the western line to the coal mines and what happens further west.
- Remove all the NG rail line crossing the range where no required by the Inland.

The Inland Project will then be forced to remove the redudent NG line from just west and east of Toowoomba, south through Warwick to the border and across to Yelarbon.  Obviously remove a significant number of LX'ings in Toowoomba and further along the corridor south.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
I also loose my trip to Melbourne.

Convert the Overland to another IP and join it at Adelaide...!

Im having difficulty with Melbourne-Brisbane as a GSR style as there is just a bit less time than there should be.  Also, I haven't yet worked out how you would sleep them.  Relative to the IP and Gahn, there is a lot more to see out the window of a possible Inland Rail pax service.  Overnighting on the train seems a wast of scenery for half the journey.

Unless you just wrote that off and ran a train on a 24 hour cycle, so half of each trip would be in the dark but the opposite half in each direction?
james.au
I think Adelaide to Brisbane via Melbourne twice a week is the way to go and comply with the A-M subsidy requirement and not impact on this service. If going north of Melbourne twice a week is not viable, then Adel-Mel-A-M-Parkes-Bris-Parkes-M-A. Which would keep the set busy for the bulk of the week.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Why would any organisation set up a passenger rail service along the inland rail corridor. This is 100% arm chair operator stuff. GSR's overland is only surviving due to subsidies by the Vic and SA Governments and the IP dropped it's economy cabins because they weren't profitable post federal government subsidy. Not only that but the XPT provides a Melbourne-Brisbane rail service at the moment anyway.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Why would any organisation set up a passenger rail service along the inland rail corridor. This is 100% arm chair operator stuff. GSR's overland is only surviving due to subsidies by the Vic and SA Governments and the IP dropped it's economy cabins because they weren't profitable post federal government subsidy. Not only that but the XPT provides a Melbourne-Brisbane rail service at the moment anyway.
simstrain
Sigh...read the post from, 16 May 2017 20:10. The top line will do.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
This is a bit interesting

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/australian-inland-rail-project-land-swap-to-seal-deal-for-queensland/news-story/0e2b80bf4e317d195ab8dfd531638568

The State Government [Queensland] is believed to be considering signing over ownership of the existing Goondiwindi to Toowoomba rail corridor – part of the South West Rail System – to the Commonwealth.
.

Might this suggest that the investigation as to where Inland Rail will go from the NSW border to Toowoomba might take it via Warwick?
Not a chance in hell, the Inland Rail project wants the Western coal, Toowoomba containers and anything else they can pull of the western line to help make the Liverpool range crossing viable financially.

The only reason the Qld govt knows Goo-Too line and associated branches are redundant once the inland is built, although some parts of its will use the NG corridor although how much is still a work in progress and by handing over to the feds they are off loading responsibility for the costs of the line and who will miss out. The Feds can also deal with the dreamers in Warwick who want rail to go through their town, yet have zero benefit apart from construction and MTCE crews stopping for lunch.

All the Qld govt has to do in the future is
- Connect the Goodi branch to the new Inland near Yelarbon and potentially upgrade to Inland standards and likely SG.  
- Connect the Western line to the Inland at Kingsthorpe and decide whether or not to DG or gauge convert and upgrade the western line to the coal mines and what happens further west.
- Remove all the NG rail line crossing the range where no required by the Inland.

The Inland Project will then be forced to remove the redudent NG line from just west and east of Toowoomba, south through Warwick to the border and across to Yelarbon.  Obviously remove a significant number of LX'ings in Toowoomba and further along the corridor south.
RTT_Rules

Good analysis.

The redundant lines will make a good run of rail trails.  Found a map of the current line to the north and east of Toowoomba and it would be a massive tourist drawcard if they did!
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE

Good analysis.

The redundant lines will make a good run of rail trails.  Found a map of the current line to the north and east of Toowoomba and it would be a massive tourist drawcard if they did!
james.au
There has been some talk over the years about converting the rail corridor from Warwick to Armidale to a huge +300km rail trial along that region with frequent some pretty towns, wine district, granite belt and elevated country side along the and way that would probably draw 10,000's of users to the region each year.  

However with the Inland, the option to extend up to Toowoomba might be suitable. Not sure if any value going west from Warwick to Inglewood but you never know.

Southern Downs and their supporters will obviously object and unfortunately Southern Downs has done a great job with their work, but their location was always one day going to be an island as the Inland was only a matter of time. How big their island is depends on how much money they can afford to fund their own track. I think Warwick to Stanthorpe would be great, one destination to another, but 40km of track is alot to look after and many others have failed trying to do so. There is no way they will be able to fund to the border or Toowoomba.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
Farmers hit back at Inland Rail link between Illabo and Stockinbingal

"Property owners along the proposed Inland Rail Link between Stockinbingal and Illabo have lashed back at suggestions construction will begin before 2018..."

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/4674093/farmer-fightback-over-illabo-stockinbingal-inland-rail-plan/
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Farmers hit back at Inland Rail link between Illabo and Stockinbingal

"Property owners along the proposed Inland Rail Link between Stockinbingal and Illabo have lashed back at suggestions construction will begin before 2018..."

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/4674093/farmer-fightback-over-illabo-stockinbingal-inland-rail-plan/
cootanee
More of a smeg session than anything of substance.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
ARTC appoints a General Manager Finance for Inland Rail.

http://www.artc.com.au/2017/07/14/artc-leadership-appointments-to-help-deliver-inland-rail/
  cuthbert Train Controller

Today's Financial Review has an article and map of the
The SCT Depots at Parkes and Bromelton are single ended, and will need to be made double ended possibly with a triangle, assuming that there is room.
awsgc24
If you Google SCT Bromelton hard enough, as I did, there is plans and room for a triangle where the "south fork" is now. A bit of earthworks and track laid with additional signalling installed will see a "north fork". After the Inland Rail starts operation, I don't think we will see any trains departing or arriving to/from the south, unless there is an operational problem with the Inland Rail route.

I found this PDF document; http://scenicrise.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SCT-Plans.pdf
  cuthbert Train Controller

Also in relation to Bromelton, PN owns the land next door to SCT (north side separated by Allan Creek) and ARTC owns land on the east side of the track, just to the south, in a triangle of land bounded by Sandy Creek Rd and Beaudesert Boona Rd and the rail line.

It would seem Bromelton is THE place to be in 2050 for employment in QLD!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
More opportunities opening up for Inland Rail west of Brisbane

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-25030/
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/chester/releases/2017/september/dc282_2017.aspx

Map

https://infrastructure.gov.au/rail/inland/border-to-gowrie/files/Yelarbon-to-Gowrie-wellcamp-charlton-map.pdf

Final alignment from the NSW border to Gowrie announced (after some time in the process)

Its going closer to the airport.  I think it also keeps InterlinkSQ on the line too.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner
  james.au Chief Commissioner
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
But is this the right decision?
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-21/inland-railway-to-cross-queensland-floodplain-despite-warning/8965950
Carnot

You'll never make anyone totally happy with any infra project.  And re floodplain, only time will tell.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
But is this the right decision?
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-21/inland-railway-to-cross-queensland-floodplain-despite-warning/8965950
Carnot

Would cost and transit time have been the major drivers of the decision as the line will not work if there are longer than required transit times. Does this also mean the tunnel option is gone?  Will this detract from freight availability in that part of Queensland?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
But is this the right decision?
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-21/inland-railway-to-cross-queensland-floodplain-despite-warning/8965950

Would cost and transit time have been the major drivers of the decision as the line will not work if there are longer than required transit times. Does this also mean the tunnel option is gone?  Will this detract from freight availability in that part of Queensland?
x31

To me it looks like the major factor was Wellcamp - the change really is only to incorporate it into the network.  The main tunnel is in the next section, Gowrie-Helidon so no impact there.  Cost and timing i think would be immaterial.

And finally, i think this will have no impact on freight availability.  In fact if Wellcamp starts a 2nd intermodal then there will be competition between them and InterlinkSQ for containers which might reduce container handling prices.


I think though that next steps in the region should include a look at the grains network and how to better connect it.  Eg, looking at the current Graincorp map, Brookstead will have SG connection to the port (i think).  Milmerran could have an SG connection if a km or two was converted. The rest of the Goondiwindi lines a major one to consider and then also perhaps a short connection to Clifton (though this would probably be unlikely). That way a whole range of freight would jump to rail and could be easily accommodated by the SG fleet.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Sounds like there is some merit to the decision but I would like to think the change will bring more business to rail and not take business from NG which will not assist the market?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sounds like there is some merit to the decision but I would like to think the change will bring more business to rail and not take business from NG which will not assist the market?
x31

NG doesnt have a lot of the market now so there is not much to take.  SG in the region, but more accurately decent axle loads, will be the driver of freight to rail.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: