A further comment

Will people value the travel time more if they are able to do other things on the train (e.g. work, or personal interest like reading or watching vids) compared to in the car where they have to hold onto the wheel?

You make it sound like driving is a bad thing. Driving in the country is one of the best things because there are no traffic jams and road speed limits tend to be 100+ km/h. Driving a car is much more fun then reading or watching vids.

Driverless vehicles now given the go ahead on NSW roads. Its only a few years until they start to make great inroads into our day to day lives. They will change the old ideas of fixed routes. Anyone can use a driverless vehicle in the way we now use UBER.

I feel that driverless vehicle advocates are being wildly optimistic with the timeline for their introduction.  Id say 15-20 years away  at least rather than the 5-10 years that im seeing mentioned.

G'day all,

It is my belief that the ambulance chasers (lawyers) will keep driver-less cars off the roads for the next 30 years at least. the legal implications of ownership, in control, usage etc. are light years away from being legally solved. Speak to your insurance company about being in a driver-less car in an accident with a normal driver car. Good luck.

Regards,

Also what app do you use if the car becomes bogged. It does happen now so it will still be a problem or are they going to include an app in the car to get you out of a bogged situation. If the car is really bogged up to the axles in some remote place you could die before being found or will it set off a rescue beacon or some such and all you have to do is sit tight and wait for help to arrive. Good luck with that in places in Australia even if they know where you are it can take days or weeks to get to you depending on the season and conditions at the time.

I have never used uber or even care to. If I need such a vehicle I would just call a taxi but more then likely I would just use PT.

Uber and taxis are P(ublic) T(ransport)!

Even google maps doesnt have maps for all roads in Australia.

Even less so accurate maps!

I actually find that in general Here WeGo is far more accurate than Google Maps.

Agree,
I think there is a market for some banks to offer home service for aged customers like your friend.

Sounds like your phone is old. If you don't want a new phone, you can also do it on a tablet, which is easier for fat fingers and easier to use.

When using phone banking, my suggestion connect ear phones to your device and listen than way, its easier. I do it!

With baggage label self print. Every time I've used this, especially in USA when I had to do my first time last year. The customer service lady came up and said "I've seen that look, let me help you". Generally speaking full fare airlines will provide better service.

self service checkouts. The staff are told to tell you to use, but no store has a policy you must use. Take it up with the management.

I do not know which Aussie bank just been told that when she rang she was told she must do it online.
My phone is just over 2 years, it is dual sim for travelling (which is the only time I make much use of it). I admit I bought the one with less memory because I rarely use it, just for emergency. I rarely use my home phone either. No way will I do phone banking while I have use of my laptop. (I gave my Ipad away to my sister as I had trouble using the pad.) I know it is heavier but I always travel with my MacBook Air. However after typing this, I will need to go back and correct all the errors so I do not post too often
I do not use cheap airlines. Air NZ is the one which has automated everything. I also used Alaska Air in the USA. I admit Emirates my favourite airline does not require machines but they do not fly across the Pacific.
I emailed K-Mart with my complaint but no reply. Thankfully Warehouse (a similar company in NZ) does not require self service

I retrained as a school librarian (I had been a geography teacher) in 1993-1994. I introduced the internet to a junior high school in Western Sydney in 1995. At first the modem commuted with me from home each day and there was just one Mac in the library. Gradually it increased to 10 and I remember the excitement when we installed the first Imac. I would spend Sunday afternoons in the library running (with discs) repair tools that were necessary after a week under the hands of several hundred 12 to 15 year olds. It was exciting but quite a procedure when we purchased a new operating system, of course on discs.
It was time to retire in 2003 when the powers that be decided to replace the Macs with PCs. Ironically I did casual and temporary work using PCs for the next 5 years but I did not have to take care of them and could always go home to my Mac at night.

My sister originally introduced me to Apple in the 80's. She was personal assistant in a large American company. I remember, probably in the 70's, going to her office before having dinner with her and she told me to be quiet as she was typing direct to the USA (they usually sent messages overnight). I was awestruck at the time and laugh today as I chat with friends in the US and UK.

However she is now 83 and I am 73. Thankfully computers (at least Macs) rarely crash and upgrades are simple. But why must they upgrade so often? I groan when there are upgrades to Pages and Numbers. I have lost old documents because they have not been upgraded and although I only do simple tasks, I have to learn new ways most times. I travel overseas each year and have just returned from 7 weeks in Canada and Alaska. Each time I try to make an Imovie of my photos but each year it seems to be a  completely different process and becomes so frustrating. I skype with my sister each morning (she uses the Ipad I gave her) and about every second month she tells me "Oh no, Skype has been upgraded again, what is that button for" or similar. I can understand why there are people my age who do not want to learn about computers although it is annoying as I organise a hiking group and send details by email each Saturday. There are 40 email addresses and about 5 that need to be phoned but some only open their email every few days or less. When I go overseas I still need to send the emails as no one else in the group knows how to send an email to 40 at once.

Have concerns as well Valve gears post was priceless.
When I think of driverless cars, I think initionally of taxi/uber.
I use a taxi probably once a year, usually to return from a Xmas party, a night on the sauce.

So my questions in relation to these driverless vehicles are.
If you fall asleep, who will wake you at your destination?
If you fall asleep, who will proposition your wife on the way?
And who will try to rip you off in relation to fare?

There is (or maybe was now) one vehicle manufacturer whose warranty was invalidated by unsealed roads (excluding signposted roadworks) including their 4wd.  There may be more. Funnily enough they are one of the brands not sold in my closest town any more but then neither are most of the luxury brands either - you need to travel to Bendigo or Shepparton to buy them.

If manufacturers won't warranty dirt roads (including their 4wd) for current fleet then what hope do we have of them getting the dirt road handling self-driving cars right?

Hopefully that would be "was" rather than "is" as any court in the country would laugh at the dealer and tell them to fix it.

I have yet to see an explanation of how a driverless car will cope when it's information is wrong (eg incorrect maps on GPS) and so far all promotional material has either shown the vehicles on freeways or suburban streets not the single-lane-each-way pot-holed roads we use in most of Australia.  Nor have any been shown to work on dirt roads.

There is (or maybe was now) one vehicle manufacturer whose warranty was invalidated by unsealed roads (excluding signposted roadworks) including their 4wd.  There may be more. Funnily enough they are one of the brands not sold in my closest town any more but then neither are most of the luxury brands either - you need to travel to Bendigo or Shepparton to buy them.

If manufacturers won't warranty dirt roads (including their 4wd) for current fleet then what hope do we have of them getting the dirt road handling self-driving cars right?

I think most will agree that self drive in the country side will most likely take longer than city traffic which in Australia is probably +80% of all the route km driven each year. With the move toward smaller high rise mostly inner suburban and city apartments, the same move will likely occur that has previously happened OS with those peoples cars.

Their cars will most likely be smaller and less per family with greater reliance on PT and apartments such as Studio and 1 bed only sold with 1 car space (if any). In Dubai for 2 bed or less, it was up to the original off the plan purchaser to pay additional money for the 2nd car space. On occasion they come up for same when an apartment changes hands and the new owner wants to reduce their investment in car parking, usually however they just rent them out.

With regard to errors on the maps, I think again most will agree these are becoming less and less and usually very rare. The updates from mobile phones (think each car with a phone and some sort of road app on is providing live updates) and the various road authorities these days is often frighteningly fast with new routes or diversions appearing as a dotted line until the day its open then within a few hours the dotted line going solid.

Have concerns as well Valve gears post was priceless.
When I think of driverless cars, I think initionally of taxi/uber.
I use a taxi probably once a year, usually to return from a Xmas party, a night on the sauce.

So my questions in relation to these driverless vehicles are.
If you fall asleep, who will wake you at your destination?
If you fall asleep, who will proposition your wife on the way?
And who will try to rip you off in relation to fare?

I think true driverless cars will first clearly be the taxi industry as half the taxi costs are the driver's salary.

Wake you up, I'm sure they can find a suitable noise. If you fail to wake, then security is called or the car driven to police station
Women of the developed world have found other machines for self gratification, I'm sure they could sort this issue out quickly.

The current system used by the taxi industry where you don't know the fare until you get their is a legacy that won't last for much longer. Uber has dragged the (govt propped up) taxi industry out of the early 19th century and using modern technology have are providing customers with up front cost of service so you can make the choice if you want the service and also introduced peak pricing so costs reflect demand.

My two bob's worth. Driverless road vehicles are 30 years away...

Just like fusion reactors for power generation. In the late 1960s they were 30 years away according to Scientific American mag. Fifty years on, in the last year or two I have also read that they are still 30 years away.

My two bob's worth. Driverless road vehicles are 30 years away...

Just like fusion reactors for power generation. In the late 1960s they were 30 years away according to Scientific American mag. Fifty years on, in the last year or two I have also read that they are still 30 years away.

The difference between Fusion and driverless cars is back then it was a concept based on the work to date but still using technology that was decades away from being invented.

Today, the technology needed for Driveerless cars exists now and in higher end cars to some degree but there a number of models that can driver themselves in traffic on highways. Australia dragged its feet on braking assist, but its now compulsory in many countries. This uses the same hardware as parking sensors and driverless control.

Fusion, however still has yet to make surplus energy for more than a few seconds and the technology to control the reaction is still very much a work in progress.

For driverless cars, its now mostly in the hands of the IT coders and Google and other have them on the roads TODAY in traffic being tested TODAY. Still some way to go to commericalise, but its happening rapidly.

... its now mostly in the hands of the IT coders.

As the code gets more complicated the more likely bugs will not be detected until live 'testing'. Google Windows10 issues and you find a multitude of problems that seem to be associated with updates.

I'm still bemused by Commbank's ATM 'coding' error as it has been reported.

I think most will agree that self drive in the country side will most likely take longer than city traffic which in Australia is probably +80% of all the route km driven each year.

Which may create a break of gauge issue as there will be limits on where the driverless cars can go.  This may not be a big problem given fleet turnover etc, but may limit where people can travel to for a period.

I think most will agree that self drive in the country side will most likely take longer than city traffic which in Australia is probably +80% of all the route km driven each year.
Which may create a break of gauge issue as there will be limits on where the driverless cars can go.  This may not be a big problem given fleet turnover etc, but may limit where people can travel to for a period.

Unless of course you actually drive the vehicle yourself outside of the "driverless zone"!

I think most will agree that self drive in the country side will most likely take longer than city traffic which in Australia is probably +80% of all the route km driven each year.
Which may create a break of gauge issue as there will be limits on where the driverless cars can go.  This may not be a big problem given fleet turnover etc, but may limit where people can travel to for a period.Unless of course you actually drive the vehicle yourself outside of the "driverless zone"!

In which case the cost savings in the vehicle construction costs would be lost as it will have to have both the automated and manual systems available for use.  Which may tempt people to use the manual settings in city driving because they can...

If they are to be truly safe then 'driverless vehicles' will actually require more training, alertness, monitoring and understanding then we have now to recognise when the system has done something wrong etc.  Aircraft have trained pilots to take over when things go wrong and one faulty sensor has cause crashes as they were trying to work their way through the hidden controls to find out what went wrong.

Imagine if your travelling fast in a queue of traffic and one vehicle has the equivalent of "the blue screen of death".  Modern cars can have issues but turning them off and on again is usually the 'reboot' required for the engine management system.

remember not only are there potential code bugs but the sensors and even the CPUs themselves are all physical devices that can develop faults causing erratic behaviour or stop working.  

The 'driver' of the 'driverless vehicle' will have to be trained to recognise these symptoms and take control manually until they are fixed

I think most will agree that self drive in the country side will most likely take longer than city traffic which in Australia is probably +80% of all the route km driven each year.
Which may create a break of gauge issue as there will be limits on where the driverless cars can go.  This may not be a big problem given fleet turnover etc, but may limit where people can travel to for a period.Unless of course you actually drive the vehicle yourself outside of the "driverless zone"! In which case the cost savings in the vehicle construction costs would be lost as it will have to have both the automated and manual systems available for use.  Which may tempt people to use the manual settings in city driving because they can...

Driverless trains (case in point DLR in London) can still be manually driven and a qualified "driver" is always on board. Why would driverless cars be any different?

because if you read the releases the general public think they can watch movies, read books, work and even drink champagne while the car whisks them to it's destination then either goes off and parks itself or finds it's next booking. It's how the idea of driverless cars is being sold to the public.

In any of those scenarios the 'driver' is either not there, not paying attention or if there is enough champagnes even in a fit state to take control let alone realise something has gone wrong.


also there is talk of removing the controls completely , even earlier in this thread, which makes manual control a bit difficult.

also there is talk of removing the controls completely , even earlier in this thread, which makes manual control a bit difficult.

That sounds downright scary. Imagine that in the event of some catastrophic system failure highways will be littered with vehicles that cannot be moved...

Which may create a break of gauge issue as there will be limits on where the driverless cars can go.  This may not be a big problem given fleet turnover etc, but may limit where people can travel to for a period.Unless of course you actually drive the vehicle yourself outside of the "driverless zone"!

Which is exactly what I think will be the case. The days without a steering wheel are a long way off. Even driverless trains have a control panel, usually locked away, but its there.

I think most will agree that self drive in the country side will most likely take longer than city traffic which in Australia is probably +80% of all the route km driven each year.
Which may create a break of gauge issue as there will be limits on where the driverless cars can go.  This may not be a big problem given fleet turnover etc, but may limit where people can travel to for a period.Unless of course you actually drive the vehicle yourself outside of the "driverless zone"! In which case the cost savings in the vehicle construction costs would be lost as it will have to have both the automated and manual systems available for use.  Which may tempt people to use the manual settings in city driving because they can...

Driverless vehicle roll out won't be driven my manufacturing cost, it will be more related to cost of having a driver for like taxi's and people going to work choosing to work, sleep, use the phone etc. I doubt the cost of the control panel in a car today is actually that much. Maybe 10% of vehicle manufacturing cost?

If they are to be truly safe then 'driverless vehicles' will actually require more training, alertness, monitoring and understanding then we have now to recognise when the system has done something wrong etc.  Aircraft have trained pilots to take over when things go wrong and one faulty sensor has cause crashes as they were trying to work their way through the hidden controls to find out what went wrong.

Imagine if your travelling fast in a queue of traffic and one vehicle has the equivalent of "the blue screen of death".  Modern cars can have issues but turning them off and on again is usually the 'reboot' required for the engine management system.

remember not only are there potential code bugs but the sensors and even the CPUs themselves are all physical devices that can develop faults causing erratic behaviour or stop working.  

The 'driver' of the 'driverless vehicle' will have to be trained to recognise these symptoms and take control manually until they are fixed

This all gets down to redundancy and backup systems. Planes have pilots because they cannot stop, they are moving at 900km/h 10km up and there are 200-600 paying passengers on board. A car can stop or ideally pull over. Cars also have computers now and when they go into fault depending on the model various things happen, but usually drives at reduced power and speed.

A true driverless car would need to be designed with the logic that the person in the car is not trained to drive a car, so in case of a fault the safety system takes over and protects the passenger.

also there is talk of removing the controls completely , even earlier in this thread, which makes manual control a bit difficult.

That sounds downright scary. Imagine that in the event of some catastrophic system failure highways will be littered with vehicles that cannot be moved...

Won't happen any time soon. The focus in the technology is removing drivers from taxis/Uber, enabling intoxicated people to get home in their own car, delivery of parcels etc, enabling the drivers to do other things and/or having the car occupied by people not legally able to drive.

With regard to driverless cars, he reason the govts are starting to roll out legislation now in many countries is to enable the rules of what is allowed and not allowed is known by all especially the manufacturers.