Extend Melbourne Tram route 3 to Chadstone

 
  James974 Assistant Commissioner

This is the idea, if it ain't possible let me know, just interesting the a tram line ain't so far away from connecting many key interchanges and destination.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6vteqlza2afmna/Screen%20Shot%202017-09-10%20at%202.26.45%20pm.png?dl=0

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  steve195 Junior Train Controller

This has been talked about forever, but probably won't ever be built. The smart bus routes do an adequate job of ferrying people to and from Oakleigh, Holmesglen and even Caulfield.

Having said that, I am aware that Monash Uni and Infrastructure Victoria are looking to light rail as a solution to chronic bus overcrowding. One proposal has a tram line running down the median on Dandenong road from Clayton to Caulfield..
  James974 Assistant Commissioner

This has been talked about forever, but probably won't ever be built. The smart bus routes do an adequate job of ferrying people to and from Oakleigh, Holmesglen and even Caulfield.

Having said that, I am aware than Monash Uni and Infrastructure Victoria are looking to light rail as a solution to chronic bus overcrowding. One proposal has a tram line running down the median on Dandenong road from Clayton to Caulfield..
steve195
Do you have any idea why there hasn't been a recent move to tram priority and more tram extensions. Only tram upgrades ongoing is maintenance upgrades, new tram stops and new trams. The last tram extension I believe was 2004.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Before the introduction of the E class, the majority of Melbourne's tram fleet were between 20 and 40 years old (Z, A and B class). Replacing these relics needs to be a priority. The current order is for 70 trams, I expect before the next election both parties will pledge to increase that to a total order of 150, fulfilling the total of the original contract with Bombardier. That will not be enough.

Vehicle for vehicle, the total of 150 will not even go close to replacing the entire Z class fleet. On top of that there are 70 A class trams, the last of which came into service In September 2017 (that's 30 years ago this month). Then there are the B class, there are 130 of them, the last of which came into service in 1994.

To replace every Z, A and B class tram vehicle for vehicle, the government will need to order a total of about 380 new trams. We are currently at about 56. It took 4 years for the first 50 to enter service, meaning at the current rate, assuming a continuous order, it will take more than 20 years to replace all of the high floor trams on the network. By then the first low floor trams (C and D class) will be due for replacement, provided they last that long.

In other words, there should just be a standing order for continuous production of new trams, or alternatively bombardier should be given a larger order and a government grant (federal maybe) to substantially increase their productivity.

What does all of this have to do with extending tram routes? Nothing, but at the moment it seems the government don't want to make a long term commitment to replacing the old rollingstock, so I doubt they are going to look at extending tram routes, requiring even more trams to run on the extended lines.
  steve195 Junior Train Controller

@James974 Extending PT to under-served areas generally takes the form of heavy rail, given that most growth areas are in the outer suburbs. So extending to South Morang (soon Mernda) and RRL have taken priority in terms of railway extension investment in recent times. There are probably political reasons as well. Maybe some of our more well connected posters can enlighten us Wink

As I alluded to in my above post, last year Infrastructure Victoria recommend that "National Employment Clusters" that are not currently served by rail will require light rail in the future. This is why Monash Uni are no longer lobbying for a spur line from Huntingdale.

@Gman_86 The B class are currently going through a life-extension program, so the government must be expecting them to be around for another 10-15 years at least. Plus they are justifying retirements on a "capacity" basis, rather than the number of trams. So for every 2 E's, they retire 3 Z/A class trams. Hopefully the current patronage boom will stop them from stupidly following through with that policy.
  James974 Assistant Commissioner

@James974 Extending PT to under-served areas generally takes the form of heavy rail, given that most growth areas are in the outer suburbs. So extending to South Morang (soon Mernda) and RRL have taken priority in terms of railway extension investment in recent times. There are probably political reasons as well. Maybe some of our more well connected posters can enlighten us Wink

As I alluded to in my above post, last year Infrastructure Victoria recommend that "National Employment Clusters" that are not currently served by rail will require light rail in the future. This is why Monash Uni are no longer lobbying for a spur line from Huntingdale.

@Gman_86 The B class are currently going through a life-extension program, so the government must be expecting them to be around for another 10-15 years at least. Plus they are justifying retirements on a "capacity" basis, rather than the number of trams. So for every 2 E's, they retire 3 Z/A class trams. Hopefully the current patronage boom will stop them from stupidly following through with that policy.
steve195
Another question you mentioned Rowville rail may take the form of light rail than the latter heavy rail, is similar planned for Doncaster spur line to be light rail or still heavy rail down the strip of the median of the freeway?

For the trams, I believe the plan is to increase overall capacity but reduce the frequency, since less trams but more trams are longer.

As to the post, I still think smaller scale tram extensions are good to increase connectivity to the network, many tram route stop short from a train station or major destinations, obviously require political motive first. More importantly tram priority there is a lot of talk about it but not enough action, all I here is Yarra trams embracing it, do a trial and then go quiet, obviously the lack of political motivation to actually increase the speeds of trams is ridiculous. If you wanna do something right, they should get Yarra Trams executive visit the Gold Coast light rail and take some notes and implement all the features there. Melbourne buses and trams are the worst in Australia, trams are slow (one of the slowest in world), buses are irregular and a lot of them don't line up with other modes.
  steve195 Junior Train Controller

@James974 Extending PT to under-served areas generally takes the form of heavy rail, given that most growth areas are in the outer suburbs. So extending to South Morang (soon Mernda) and RRL have taken priority in terms of railway extension investment in recent times. There are probably political reasons as well. Maybe some of our more well connected posters can enlighten us Wink

As I alluded to in my above post, last year Infrastructure Victoria recommend that "National Employment Clusters" that are not currently served by rail will require light rail in the future. This is why Monash Uni are no longer lobbying for a spur line from Huntingdale.

@Gman_86 The B class are currently going through a life-extension program, so the government must be expecting them to be around for another 10-15 years at least. Plus they are justifying retirements on a "capacity" basis, rather than the number of trams. So for every 2 E's, they retire 3 Z/A class trams. Hopefully the current patronage boom will stop them from stupidly following through with that policy.
Another question you mentioned Rowville rail may take the form of light rail than the latter heavy rail, is similar planned for Doncaster spur line to be light rail or still heavy rail down the strip of the median of the freeway?

For the trams, I believe the plan is to increase overall capacity but reduce the frequency, since less trams but more trams are longer.

As to the post, I still think smaller scale tram extensions are good to increase connectivity to the network, many tram route stop short from a train station or major destinations, obviously require political motive first. More importantly tram priority there is a lot of talk about it but not enough action, all I here is Yarra trams embracing it, do a trial and then go quiet, obviously the lack of political motivation to actually increase the speeds of trams is ridiculous. If you wanna do something right, they should get Yarra Trams executive visit the Gold Coast light rail and take some notes and implement all the features there. Melbourne buses and trams are the worst in Australia, trams are slow (one of the slowest in world), buses are irregular and a lot of them don't line up with other modes.
James974
Honestly, I think Rowville rail is dead.
I have no idea about Doncaster. My post about light rail was in reference to "National Employment and Innovation Clusters," Doncaster is not one of these. If I have time this week I'll try to track down that Infrastructure Victoria report.

I totally agree with you re: closing transport gaps by extending trams. I think it might have been the Greens who took a similar policy to the last state election. It was stuff like extending the 3 to Chadstone, the 48 to Doncaster, the 6 to Ashburton etc.

The Yarra Trams executives don't need to go to the Gold Coast. Aren't most of them French? Presumably they came to YT with experience from one of the many modern light rail systems in France. That's the level of service they should be aspiring to!
  kitchgp Train Controller


.........The current order is for 70 trams, ......
Gman_86

I think 10 more were added in the May State Budget, bringing the total to 80; 50 E-class (completed) and 30 E2-class.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Would the extension be done in stages? Like the first stage being to East Malvern station.
  James974 Assistant Commissioner

Would the extension be done in stages? Like the first stage being to East Malvern station.
Myrtone
Stage 1; Extend tram route 3 to Chadstone terminus (green solid line)
Stage 2: Extend further to connect with Dandenong line (green dotted line)
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Since an extension just to the station mentioned above would allow a direct interchange between tram and train and would likely increase patronage, that would be the first stage. The first stage you gave is quite long in distance. It may be a good idea to extend it a short distance at a time.

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