Duplication of rail line to Baxter a step closer thanks to $4m study into the work

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 26 Sep 2017 12:40
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Read this yesterday and have a couple of questions.

Governments don't remove trains anymore it is political suicide. The politicians who are featured in the story would be advocating for upgrading of services not the removal. If you accept this to be true and the usual way politicians work I support the idea get the electrification done to stony point and do the whole job in one foul swoop. Why have two hoes as it? There is plenty of money in the kiddy and Darren Chester is a Victoria an nd happy to provide money when required.

Reading the thread I have not seen a single valid reason why this entire line should not have been given the once over and just get it done removing diesels for good. This would probably increase passenger numbers after completion.

Please stop citing some myth about economic benefits this is 1970's think. We are now measuring community benefit. Some users here need to forget the idea of transport paying its way. It will never do that and not required to do it either.

Finally how does developing a station for economic benefit to the government make a better rail service for the travelling public? Yet another myth.

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  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Frankston is a marginal seat, 2018 is a state election year. The Feds are funding a study in order to give their compatriots in the Victorian State Opposition a little leg up.
Yet Altona which is definitely not marginal, gets a dedicated rail study whether duplication is feasible, its got nothing to do with seats. As much as I used to use the Altona line, the Cranbourne East rail has been waiting since 2008 since it was first promised. Altona duplication kinda not doing any favours really.

Upfield line also got its own feasibility study for extension, I'm pretty sure that lies in a seat that is not marginal.

I know these a rail studies, but that is what I am comparing it to, there is nothing planned for Cranbourne East, expect an insert of 15 years away, or the public transport minister saying not needed yet. And got nothing to do with seats, just a lack of understanding that this was proposed by the same party that pushed for the project to happen. They have pretty short term memory for what I can see.
James974
Kororoit Rd level crossing is on the State Government's 50 level crossings list. There was quite a lot of lobbying by the well-organised Altona Loop Group to duplicate the 'Loop as part of that level crossing removal, so a study has been funded. Simple as that.

Extending past Cranbourne doesn't have nearly as much organised, targeted community pressure as the Altona Loop.

The Upfield-Somerton Link study is part of PTV's medium-term plan to relieve congestion on the Craigieburn line by moving Seymour + Shepparton V/Line services over to the less heavily-trafficked Upfield line. Nothing to do with community lobbying.

As for Baxter: Federal funding for a feasibility study that the State Government isn't particularly interested in smacks of pork-barrelling. Look at how much wailing and gnashing of teeth there was at both levels of Government in order to get the Feds to start dispensing funds for State Government-led rail projects in the 2016/17 budget! And now suddenly the Feds have taken a keen interest in upgrading the rail line to Baxter?
Doesn't matter how good it smells, pork is still pork.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
P class with 3 H carriages should do the job no? It's what they had in the past if memory serves me correctly.
no they had an A class (Sir Harold clap) and 2 H carriages just look it up
Dangersdan707
Yes, and 3 of the 4 A classes and one out of 4 MTH cars are unuseable and old.

And the sprinters are faster, and easier to turn around at each end


101 of pointing out when school holidays; is when crap like this appears.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
:lol:no crap, I know, that just a gunzel dreaming
any way back on topic were are the stabling yards in baxter going to be and how will this effect the MRPS?
that is if this happens also I'm nearly an adult not some 7 year old thinking x and y are better.
I have a fondness for the A and B classes because some years ago when I was a little bloke, I was given a cab ride on the loop around at Stoney Point (that was probably illegal at the time but hey) in A60 (Sir Harold Clapp)
lets just hope the government does this anyway!
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
P class with 3 H carriages should do the job no? It's what they had in the past if memory serves me correctly.
no they had an A class (Sir Harold clap) and 2 H carriages just look it up
Yes, and 3 of the 4 A classes and one out of 4 MTH cars are unuseable and old.
speedemon08
Clapped out?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Clapped out?
Lad_Porter
according to Wikipedia Vline has 3 A class in storage and one in service, for the H class sets they seem to be occasionally used. please correct me if I am wrong. so quiet possibly
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

In addition to the Herald Sun - there is a bit more information in this article from the Mornington Local Newspaper.

http://mpnews.com.au/2017/09/25/all-aboard-for-baxter-line-business-case/

Some key points not mentioned in the Herald Sun article:

- the Mornington paper notes that this is actually a joint project between the Federal (coalition) government and the Vic state (ALP) government.  The Herald Sun had ignored the second part of that.

- the project will look at adding stations *both* at the Frankston Hospital precinct, and also at Langwarrin.

It also quotes the Frankston mayor as saying that he wants the stabling to go to Baxter in order to avoid the Kananook stabling being built and therefore "costing 200 local jobs" (this number appears to have grown from the 75-100 jobs quoted by the NoSkyRailers).  I don't think anyone's explained to him that they it's not either/or - long term, both Kananook and Baxter stabling will be needed.  But notable that the Mayor thanked both Crewther (Lib federal) and Edbrooke (Lab state) for their efforts.

At the last federal election, both the candidates for Dunkley (ALP candidate was Peta Murphy) had initiating the Baxter study as a policy - it's a bit of a furphy for Crewther to be billing this as a major win for the Libs, as there wasn't any actually opposition to it from the state Labor govt besides just dragging their feet.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Adogs. be grateful you live in a marginal seat and if it ever looks like becoming a safe seat, start actively supporting the party that is falling behind. Because if Franga and Dunkley ever become safe, no party will spend a cent there.

I live in the inner north of Melbourne; many years ago we were a marginal seat and politicians were constantly throwing money at us. These days it is a safe seat (at the last election the Green Party won by a country mile, Libs a distant second and Labour came a miserable third). The result? All politicians from all parties take us for granted and no one ever suggests sending a cent here. Sad

So revel in your marginal status, both Liberal and Labour will throw bucket loads of cash at your area, but only if it remains politically marginal.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This is exactly why the locals should be pushing now for completion to Stony Point.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
This is exactly why the locals should be pushing now for completion to Stony Point.
bevans
not many people around the peninsular really care about electrifying the line unfortunately though it would be nice:-(  most people just don't really care though when ever I see the sprinters go past they are all ways full also refer to first page of the forum. people are just largely annoyed about changing trains @ Frankston
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

This is exactly why the locals should be pushing now for completion to Stony Point.
not many people around the peninsular really care about electrifying the line unfortunately though it would be nice:-(  most people just don't really care though when ever I see the sprinters go past they are all ways full also refer to first page of the forum. people are just largely annoyed about changing trains @ Frankston
Dangersdan707
What if the sprinters ran on the same line as Frankston all the way into SCS would that work or not?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
What if the sprinters ran on the same line as Frankston all the way into SCS would that work or not?
James974
Why ?

That would be a massive waste of resources !

Low capacity train taking up train paths along the Frankston line.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

What if the sprinters ran on the same line as Frankston all the way into SCS would that work or not?
James974
The only time that would be anywhere near acceptable is having the non-revenue service to change the sprinters become a daily revenue service train.  
Otherwise its a massive waste of train paths, capacity and money
  allsmiles Station Master

Dangersdan707, the A class came, but before that there was a T class, I don't recall any P class down on that line in regular service. You might be too young to remember.

The passenger numbers don't stack up to justify running sparks to Hastings. Before the expenditure on duplicating the line some passing loops located at some of the stations will improve the lines ability to increase capacity. The push to Baxter with electrification could be because of the objections to the proposed stabling at Kananook by some influential people, and the value of the land.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The push to Baxter with electrification could be because of the objections to the proposed stabling at Kananook by some influential people, and the value of the land.
allsmiles
The project to extend electrification to Baxter Is way off, and has no funding (likely to be very costly too)

Meanwhile the relocation of the Carrum stabling sidings Is happening next year (2018)

So unless someone can come up with an alternative viable location near Frankston Station for train stabling, the Seaford/Kananook plan will proceed.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Dangersdan707, the A class came, but before that there was a T class, I don't recall any P class down on that line in regular service. You might be too young to remember. The passenger numbers don't stack up to justify running sparks to Hastings. Before the expenditure on duplicating the line some passing loops located at some of the stations will improve the lines ability to increase capacity. The push to Baxter with electrification could be because of the objections to the proposed stabling at Kananook by some influential people, and the value of the land.
allsmiles
Yes allsmiles I don't remember the P or Ts or the DERMS on the stony point line cause I'm to young and to be honest I was quiet surprised about the plans to electrify the line cause of the low level of use

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