Electrification of rail line to Melton a step closer thanks to a planning study into the work

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

State Government has funding to investigate the needs of Electrification of the Melton line, for the growing suburbs of the west.

It is disappoint the line cannot be electrified to Bacchus Marsh and be done with it. The benefits of this entire section will be way higher than just some of the line.

Will this mean V-line service will only run to SCS from the end of the line as  they do today?

http://www.starweekly.com.au/news/how-the-west-won/

All worth discussion. Any questions and answers would be welcome. Have a good day

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  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
Did you check the age of that article in the link - 3 May 2016.
More importantly, has work started on duplication yet?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Did you check the age of that article in the link - 3 May 2016.
More importantly, has work started on duplication yet?
Gauntlet
Yep last year, but I didn't see any threads on it, only for the Ballarat rail upgrade which is starting early 2018 if you wanted to know. But it is interesting they already put planning for electrification for awhile so I expect it to happen soon after the duplication project is complete by 2019.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Did you check the age of that article in the link - 3 May 2016.
More importantly, has work started on duplication yet?
Yep last year, but I didn't see any threads on it, only for the Ballarat rail upgrade which is starting early 2018 if you wanted to know. But it is interesting they already put planning for electrification for awhile so I expect it to happen soon after the duplication project is complete by 2019.
James974
I don't think it will happen soon after - more likely that it will be timed to coincide with the completion of the Metro Tunnel.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

So like from 2024-2026, electrifying the line wouldn't be that tricky unless they had to grade seperate and include the flyovers and maybe Quadruplicating the track. But still it not the hardest of tasks due to the space on the rail alignment and how it only disrupt v-line services, not metro services. Ironically RRL and Melton should already be electrified. How long did the Sunbury project take? Or the Craigeburn project? Im quite sure these projects didn't wait too long.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Ironically RRL and Melton should already be electrified.
James974
Why should RRL be electrified? It's for regional VLine services which at this stage are not going electric anytime soon.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Ironically RRL and Melton should already be electrified.
Why should RRL be electrified? It's for regional VLine services which at this stage are not going electric anytime soon.
John.Z
To take the pressure off the Geelong line as far as Wyndham Vale - even if that means building a separate pair of electrified tracks.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Ironically RRL and Melton should already be electrified.
Why should RRL be electrified? It's for regional VLine services which at this stage are not going electric anytime soon.
To take the pressure off the Geelong line as far as Wyndham Vale - even if that means building a separate pair of electrified tracks.
railblogger
Just like how the Sunbury electrification reduced demand on the Bendigo line. Seriously after that line was electrified Bendigo services were less full. Melton line reduce the Ballarat crowding, and the RRL electrification reduce demand on the Geelong line. Electrification is definitely feasible in those area due to demand of housing and frequency it is at is getting closer to the point where metro services would be cheaper to operate than diesel services.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
How long did the Sunbury project take?
James974
Depends how you look at it. It was done in two seperate stages, until 2002 the electrified suburban section of the line only ran as far as St Albans, 2002 saw electrification to Watergardens (Sydenham), 10 years later phase 2 was completed and Sunbury got the wires.

While St Albans to Sunbury was done over 2 seperate projects, Sunshine to Melton will likeley be done in just one. Furthermore, the two projects to attain Sunbury electrification were 6km and 15km respectively. From Sunshine to Melton is a whopping 25km. It will take longer than Sunbury did, so its good to see they are properly investigating it now, means it is still a live option to be open in time for the Metro Tunnel.

----

On another note, one thing that I hope is taken into consideration: a passing lane for V/Line services. I think full on quadding is highly unlikely (at least West of Deer Park Junction) but a nice long stretch of triple, or better yet quadrupple track between Caroline Springs and Rockbank stations would at least give V/Line trains a chance to pass slow stopping Metro trains. Remember, once electrified, Ballarat trains will no longer need to stop between Melton and Sunshine, that is a long stretch for a Vlocity to be sitting behind a slower metro train making regular stops. An 8 to 10km long passing lane would help keep Ballarat services running at a decent pace.

Of Course, I would always prefer full on Quadding, but I don't believe that will happen, this at least would be a workable compromise.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Just like how the Sunbury electrification reduced demand on the Bendigo line. Seriously after that line was electrified Bendigo services were less full. Melton line reduce the Ballarat crowding, and the RRL electrification reduce demand on the Geelong line. Electrification is definitely feasible in those area due to demand of housing and frequency it is at is getting closer to the point where metro services would be cheaper to operate than diesel services.
James 974
I agree 100%

By passenger numbers, Melton is the busiest station on the Ballarat line. Tarneit is V/Line's busiest station after Southern Cross. These are suburban stations, this should not be V/Line's domain. Providing a suburban/Metro service for both of these corridors is a must. Electrify to Melton, Extend from Werribee, around the corner to Wyndham Vale, and on to Tarneit.

I would say both should be the highest priority for the State of Victoria from a transport Infrastructure point of view, definitly more important than Airport rail, Stony Point electrification or that bloody East West/ Western Distributor thing.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

G man 86 coddswallop and all that stuff, it will not happen anytime soon, go and do your homework before u start taking a shot at people..................
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
a/ Electrifying to Bacchus Marsh increases the project length by 50%, but doesn't increase the patronage by a similar amount.

b/ Melton-Sunshine, five stops 23min, express 17min - services would need to be every 10min to make 'overtaking' viable.

c/ Quadding 30km of track to save some Geelong windbags 5min travel time is not viable, no reason it should be a distinct service.

A direct tunnel from Newport to Southern Cross would give Geelong as a 50min extension to a 26min Werribee service - hardly unreasonable.
  MetroFemme Chief Train Controller

If melton is the busiest station on the Ballarat line how far behind Ballarat are the numbers?

Should a second station in melton be considered?

Would Bacchus marsh also be quite busy?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

a/ Electrifying to Bacchus Marsh increases the project length by 50%, but doesn't increase the patronage by a similar amount.

b/ Melton-Sunshine, five stops 23min, express 17min - services would need to be every 10min to make 'overtaking' viable.

c/ Quadding 30km of track to save some Geelong windbags 5min travel time is not viable, no reason it should be a distinct service.

A direct tunnel from Newport to Southern Cross would give Geelong as a 50min extension to a 26min Werribee service - hardly unreasonable.
ZH836301
Could you explain how Geelong line run into a direct tunnel which I assume is part of the Metro tunnel 2? Would you explain further of this proposal, I thought it would simply just electrifying the existing lines and thats it.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

a/ Electrifying to Bacchus Marsh increases the project length by 50%, but doesn't increase the patronage by a similar amount.

b/ Melton-Sunshine, five stops 23min, express 17min - services would need to be every 10min to make 'overtaking' viable.

c/ Quadding 30km of track to save some Geelong windbags 5min travel time is not viable, no reason it should be a distinct service.

A direct tunnel from Newport to Southern Cross would give Geelong as a 50min extension to a 26min Werribee service - hardly unreasonable.
ZH836301
good to see you telling it the way it is.....................................we miss your comments, please continue................
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Could you explain how Geelong line run into a direct tunnel which I assume is part of the Metro tunnel 2? Would you explain further of this proposal, I thought it would simply just electrifying the existing lines and thats it.
James974
Geelong lacks the service frequency to justify building 30km+ of dedicated trackwork to segregate it from suburban services.

Regardless, since Werribee would be only the 7th stop from Southern Cross, the benefits of segregation would be limited anyway.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Ever considered electrifying the RRL, melton line and then have it tunnel just before sunshine (with underground station), going through the cbd and then surfacing around burnely to connect one some of the burnely group lines?

Would providing extra capacity for future airport services if direct that way and would free up the inner RRL tracks into southern cross.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
If it were me scoping this project I would be doing the following:

a. 25KVA AC electrification from SCS to Sunshine and thence to Ballarat via the RRL lines.
b. 25KVA AC electrification from Deer park Junction to Waurn Ponds (Later Armstrong Creek and Drysdale)

This would ensure new electrification project for Ballarat and Geelong which is required in my view. Victoria needs to move away from the DC days and into the future and the best line to do this on would be Ballarat and Geelong.  20  min frequencies on both these lines between 4am and 2am.  Ballarat services would be faster and also tackle the grades better.

c. New EMU vlocity fleet to be utilised on the Geelong and Ballarat Lines.  Extended to Geelong to Ballarat.

Extending I would run AC from Geelong to Ballarat and place 12 services per day on line the line running 6 each way.

Forget extending electrification to Melton via Metro services.  Waste of time and money.  Do the job right and invest for the future.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

If it were me scoping this project I would be doing the following:

a. 25KVA AC electrification from SCS to Sunshine and thence to Ballarat via the RRL lines.
b. 25KVA AC electrification from Deer park Junction to Waurn Ponds (Later Armstrong Creek and Drysdale)

This would ensure new electrification project for Ballarat and Geelong which is required in my view. Victoria needs to move away from the DC days and into the future and the best line to do this on would be Ballarat and Geelong.  20  min frequencies on both these lines between 4am and 2am.  Ballarat services would be faster and also tackle the grades better.

c. New EMU vlocity fleet to be utilised on the Geelong and Ballarat Lines.  Extended to Geelong to Ballarat.

Extending I would run AC from Geelong to Ballarat and place 12 services per day on line the line running 6 each way.

Forget extending electrification to Melton via Metro services.  Waste of time and money.  Do the job right and invest for the future.
x31
Ok forget skyrail, waste time and money. Do the job right and invest in future, by rail under road. Under your logic the most expensive and cost effective strategy is to spend all that money of electrification and duplication of these lines. So what about Wollert and Wallan, or the Dandenong quadding, do they miss out or happen later. I like the idea and all, but it ain't happening all at once, just don't have enough money to spend across the rail network without a loan with the feds, or selling/leasing existing infrastructure.

Need to have a. fair distribution where all this funding will go, not all in specific areas, yes I know west is growing. But similar to the north or South east. Also I like to think that Stony Point line could actually make a great place for urbanisation, just a thought, which is maybe why Baxter ain't such a bad idea.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The topic here is Electrification to Melton, not "electrification to Geelong" or even 'electrification to Ballarat".

It should be really simple.

The line is being duplicated from Caroline Springs to Melton, that will be complete in the next 2 years. Part of that project will see a major revamp of Rockbank station which is in the centre of a growth area that is about to see a massive boom in population.

That is the largest hurdle to overcome before electrification can be considered to Melton.

I have 2 questions;

1. The HCMTs are most likeley to be the rollingstock used on this line when/ if electrification is to happen. Are they going to be capable of maintaining a cruise speed of 130km/h? If not, Why not?

2. Will the dual track line from Sunshine to Deer Park West Junction be able to handle the increased traffic? It is already a very busy section of track with Ballarat and Geelong line trains, will it be able to handle the extra trains that will happen with Melton duplication, and later electrification?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The topic here is Electrification to Melton, not "electrification to Geelong" or even 'electrification to Ballarat".

It should be really simple.

The line is being duplicated from Caroline Springs to Melton, that will be complete in the next 2 years. Part of that project will see a major revamp of Rockbank station which is in the centre of a growth area that is about to see a massive boom in population.

That is the largest hurdle to overcome before electrification can be considered to Melton.

I have 2 questions;

1. The HCMTs are most likeley to be the rollingstock used on this line when/ if electrification is to happen. Are they going to be capable of maintaining a cruise speed of 130km/h? If not, Why not?

2. Will the dual track line from Sunshine to Deer Park West Junction be able to handle the increased traffic? It is already a very busy section of track with Ballarat and Geelong line trains, will it be able to handle the extra trains that will happen with Melton duplication, and later electrification?
Gman_86
1. I imagine they would have to as they would most likely be running to Sunbury and Pakenham upon completion of the Metro tunnel.
2. Prior to election I think it would as there is unlikely to be many extra trains due to lack of paths between Sunshine and the city. Post electrification would be a problem without a dedicated set of tracks for suburban services.
  Mr Gus Meister Junior Train Controller

Instead of going just to Melton, they really need to go out to Bacchus Marsh. It would help take strain off VLine services - in the off-peak, there are people staning at Bacchus Marsh. Doing this would also help achieve #59minuteballarat (59 minute train to Ballarat). There is also space for more stations along the route to Bacchus Marsh.
  VicRailNews Station Master

Ok forget skyrail, waste time and money. Do the job right and invest in future, by rail under road. Under your logic the most expensive and cost effective strategy is to spend all that money of electrification and duplication of these lines. So what about Wollert and Wallan, or the Dandenong quadding, do they miss out or happen later. I like the idea and all, but it ain't happening all at once, just don't have enough money to spend across the rail network without a loan with the feds, or selling/leasing existing infrastructure.

Need to have a. fair distribution where all this funding will go, not all in specific areas, yes I know west is growing. But similar to the north or South east. Also I like to think that Stony Point line could actually make a great place for urbanisation, just a thought, which is maybe why Baxter ain't such a bad idea.
James974

The conversation is specifically around the Ballarat Line and the the proposal makes sense if you consider taking the network forward in terms of electrification and longer distance trains. I actually like it.

Baxter should be Stony Point. No question.
  red_railway Locomotive Fireman

Electrifying to Bacchus Marsh would be great for stabling electric trains. Population is still growing in the marsh. If want stabling at Melton you probably need budget for some decked car parking to buy some space. May as well sort a pedestrian overpass into the design of that while you're at it.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I would love to see Metro 2 quadruplicated between Newport and Southern Cross to take Geelong line trains back onto the quicker route and allow for more local use of Wyndham Vale and Tarneit. But that is a tad off topic.
Here's my realistic scope, after duplication to Melton:
- Electrify to Melton
- Quadruplicate between Caroline Springs and Sunshine, Melton and Wyndham Vale local services stop at existing stations, until RRL beyond Sunshine, where Melton joins Sunbury line.
- Passing loops at stations for V/Lines down from Caroline Springs.
- Planning for Bacchus Marsh electrification, and Wyndham Vale/Werribee quadruplication/eletrification.

- A few level crossing removals where required.
- 130-160kph track speed for V/Line loops where possible.

Opened with Melbourne Metro in 2026, this would be relatively cheap, I'd assume. Construction would probably start in 2023/24, by which time Bacchus Marsh, or even Ballarat might be viable considering the growth and demand in the area.

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