Passenger trains west of Broken Hill before 1986?

 
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
I read that the Silver City Limited ran between 1986 and 1990 but what passenger trains ran west of Broken Hill between 1970 and 1986 besides the Indian Pacific which I understand was sleeping cars only?

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  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Also what passenger trains ran to Whyalla between 1975 and 1986?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I read that the Silver City Limited ran between 1986 and 1990 but what passenger trains ran west of Broken Hill between 1970 and 1986 besides the Indian Pacific which I understand was sleeping cars only?
GeoffreyHansen
I can't give you the full details, but sitting cars were added to the I-P to cater for South Australian passengers west of Broken Hill. There was also (at least) a Friday night service from BH to Peterborough, where you could change to the morning up train. This operated in reverse on Sundays. I rode the Friday night pass in 1972 - an 830, 2 cars and a van.
  allan Chief Commissioner

It's late, and my brain is not at its best. But I'll try.

The SAR had two 500 (1st class) and two 600 (2nd class) passenger cars on standard gauge, plus the SCD brakevans. I think that there were three services per week to the Hill, but one, at least, ran attached behind the IP. The "normal" BH passenger was two cars and a brake. There were precious few scheduled services, so I suspect that mineral concentrates trains ran as "specials", as did trains of empty SO/SOC wagons, but there was a perenial shortage of empty SO/SOC wagons at the Hill, especially in the first few months, so that any down train, excepting the IP (maybe) was prone to having empty SO/SOC wagons attached.

As for Whyalla, that was in the CR's patch, and the three Budd cars should have been plenty of capacity to run between there and Pt Pirie.

Which leaves the period 1978 to 1986 for someone else to fill in...
  allan Chief Commissioner

Having dipped into the SAR Peterborough Division WTT No 248, Jan, 1970, I can correct some errors in the previous post.

The "ore" and "empty ore" trains were scheduled, not run as specials.

Monday and Wednesday passenger trains are described as "local trains".

By 1977 (WTT No 281), there were four IP services per week, with an extra passenger train on Sunday night. Sit-up passengers were allowed onto the IP in the lounge car (1st class) or club car (2nd class), but there is reference to "roadside cars attached to the IP between Peterborough and BH", so guess where the BH line passengers went!
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Were there not a couple (?) of NSW 'Daylight' type cars attached to the I-P as far as Port Pirie at one stage?
  allan Chief Commissioner

Yes, but I think that that was from 1977: my notes tell me that there was quite a variety - RFH, SDS, TBS, SBH, RBH, SFS, RDH. I suspect that this was associated with the withdrawal of the Comet, and that these cars (only two from the list above) came off the train at Pt Pirie.

And then there was "The Alice"...
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Yes, but I think that that was from 1977: my notes tell me that there was quite a variety - RFH, SDS, TBS, SBH, RBH, SFS, RDH. I suspect that this was associated with the withdrawal of the Comet, and that these cars (only two from the list above) came off the train at Pt Pirie.

And then there was "The Alice"...
allan
Thanks Allan I knew that I didn't imagine it but had no idea of the actual era.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I have seen photos of the SAR loco attaching 2 cars to the front of the IP at Broken Hill, with the caption indicating that a shunting loco was removing two NSW sitting cars from the rear. There was also some subsequent discussion about the positioning of the cars in the trains. I can't for the life of me find those photos - I suspect it was either from Cliff Olds or Bob Wilson.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Yes, but I think that that was from 1977: my notes tell me that there was quite a variety - RFH, SDS, TBS, SBH, RBH, SFS, RDH. I suspect that this was associated with the withdrawal of the Comet, and that these cars (only two from the list above) came off the train at Pt Pirie.

And then there was "The Alice"...
allan
I do remember seeing 2 x NSW "Candy" painted carriages on the IP at Keswick Terminal, no idea what year though.
{something in the back of my mind tells me I was at Keswick for a steam ranger trip to Victor Harbour - so that dates it before the Adelaide Melbourne was converted to SG}
  Spletsie Chief Commissioner

I have a South Australian Railways timetable dated 27 July 1975. Besides the Indian Pacific, it has the following train, which has already been referred to:
Sundays
Adelaide 6.35 pm
Peterborough 10.54 pm
(change trains)
Peterborough 11.20 pm
Mondays
Broken Hill 3.35 am

Fridays
Broken Hill 11.55 pm
Peterborough 4.35 am
(change trains)
Peterborough 5.11 am
Mondays
Adelaide 9.14 am

There was a once daily service in each direction between Adelaide and Whyalla, with a change of trains at Port Pirie. However, on Fridays there were three services in each direction.

  Spletsie Chief Commissioner

I have scanned two pages from the 27 July 1975 timetable.
https://flic.kr/p/Z7STLz
https://flic.kr/p/Y3b7cJ
  allan Chief Commissioner

I have seen photos of the SAR loco attaching 2 cars to the front of the IP at Broken Hill, with the caption indicating that a shunting loco was removing two NSW sitting cars from the rear. There was also some subsequent discussion about the positioning of the cars in the trains. I can't for the life of me find those photos - I suspect it was either from Cliff Olds or Bob Wilson.
duttonbay
OK. I'm working from memory here, and my memory is none too flash - so I might be wrong...

1. Crystal St yard is not level. When engines were changed on the IP, another loco was required to be attached to the back end, to maintain air pressure in the brakes - so that it did not roll away.

2. The candy wayside cars ran through to Pt Pirie, so, logically, would have been re-attached there.

3. In all of the photos that I can recall, the candy cars were at the rear - but the photos could all have been West-bound.

4. The SAR steel cars were also marshalled at the rear of the IP.

Am I right?
  G Train Locomotive Driver

As other posters have noted sitting cars were attached to the Indian Pacific, both SAR initially, then NSW offering a sitting service before and after 1986 from Broken Hill. See the thread at https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386205-0-asc-s0.htm for more information and links to other sites with photos of interest. From the photos I have seen the NSW cars were run through to Adelaide after the standard gauge opened. If you follow the links you'll see candy cars north of Adelaide. As an aside after the cessation of AN's railcar services, some were attached to the Indian Pacific to replace the NSW RUB & HUB cars. These in turn were replaced by air conditioned ex SAR & CR cars which were used until very recently offering a sitting service.

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