Qantas extends Emirates deal, switches from Dubai to Singapore as Sydney-London stopover

 
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks Petan.

I spent my first 30 odd years a mile or so east of the E - W runway at Essendon. At this time there were all manner of interesting planes to see. The airport was separated from the surrounding paddocks by a few strands of fencing wire and we used to ride our bikes to watch the planes lined up waiting takeoff.

To do anything similar these days one would be shot on sight. But those were the days when we could wave to Pilots and Engine Crews and they would reciprocate. Who says it was not a better world in those regards then?

In the early days most prolific were, of course, DC3s plus DC4s, Convairs and Bristol freighters. Later came DC6s, Viscounts and Fokker F27s. Later still Electras, Boeing 727s and DC9s. The few overseas flights were Electras to NZ, BOAC Comets and QANTAS Constellations to London.

People moan about aircraft noise but when everything went to Tullamarine we really missed the planes and it was eerily quiet.

On the rail side we still had the Spirit of Progress to make some noise until 1962. Up to the early 1950s, of course, the SoP was still steam hauled. A sight to behold!!!!!!!!!!!

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  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Enjoying dinner onboard the QR
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
Assume that was the 'All the way with LBJ' trip as Tullamarine was not ready then?
I assume that it was LBJ.
It was certainly a US President and I think that he has been the only one to visit Melbourne.
LBJ visited Australia in 1966 - including Melbourne, and then Melbourne again in 1967 for Harold Holt's funeral - BUT - AF1 then was a 707 and was up to 1990 when they got the 2 x 747's.
mikesyd
That other thing I should have remembered is Harold Hold died December 1967 so funeral early 1968 but the Jumbo's first flight was about a year later.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Seems QANTAS is now actually planning on skipping Dubai completely?

  GS4 Junior Train Controller

The much touted Qantas London to Perth B787-9 service has a slight difficulty as the planes effectively will need to carry extra fuel in case they have to divert at Perth due weather or what ever such as the occasional / rare disabled aircraft blocking the main runway.  The following websites note a lack of suitable diversion airports near Perth means that international flights headed for Perth have to carry extra fuel reserves so that they can divert to Melbourne, Alice Springs or Port Hedland until the fog clears. Thus the flight could well be London to Melbourne, Adelaide or Darwin etc  If Adelaide is closed due weather etc at the same time as Perth than the flight could be London to Melbourne non stop. Other emergency options are RAAF bases in that WA /SA region such as Curtin with a 3039 x 45 metre runway, Edinburgh (Adelaide) with a 2560 x 45 m RW, Learmonth 3047 x 45 RW, Pearce (Perth) 2439 x 45m RW, Woomera 2372 x 45m RW (very security restricted). I haven't checked the RAAF runway pavement aircraft mass limitations but a plane direct from London would not be at max fuel load anyway near the end of the trip

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2012-07-11/fog-in-perth-caused-delays-and-diverts-flights/977612

http://www.aviationwa.org.au/2015/11/09/perth-airport-upgrade-to-reduce-delays-and-diversions/

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/09/25/how-a-2nd-perth-airport-could-make-australia-london-non-stop-work/
Hope that they don't have to put down at Forrest.Smile
YM-Mundrabilla
At least you could watch trains from there !  ..... Smile
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
Seems QANTAS is now actually planning on skipping Dubai completely?

bevans
That's the thread topic - Dubai out, Singapore back in.

There are no doubt other issues that have not been disclosed, the political situation in the area being one. Look at the Traffic density from Dubai NW towards the Black Sea on Flightradar24.com - its like a Conga line at times from Dubai, up the W side of Iran, then across NE Turkey to the Black Sea and across to Romania, and if flying over Iran is suddenly not an option the diversions are rather lengthy.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Part of me wonders if Qantas abandoning Dubai is a bit of a ideological thing?  i.e. Alan J waving the rainbow flag and unsurprisingly donating $$$ to that cause, while Dubai's ethics on the matter are rather the opposite.

And another thing - Qantas used to be one the better airlines to fly to Germany in the past, but Frankfurt flights got canned 4 years ago.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'And another thing - Qantas used to be one the better airlines to fly to Germany in the past, but Frankfurt flights got canned 4 years ago.'

Agree.

On one of our trips to Europe the YMs and I flew QANTAS into Frankfurt. The service was ideal for our needs and for once the QANTAS fares were reasonable. We have an absolute NO NO so far as Heathrow is concerned and we prefer not to go via Dubai.

For us this was the end of QANTAS for our regular flights to Europe as we have effectively painted ourselves into a corner so far as their services are concerned.

We now usually go Thai to Bangkok then Scandinavian (SAS), Swiss or Austrian beyond which has the advantages of being both cheaper, and going where we want to go and avoiding the dreaded Heathrow.

Overall, Singapore seems better from our perspective - much better than Perth and the 'express' service from there to London non-stop.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
Part of me wonders if Qantas abandoning Dubai is a bit of a ideological thing?  i.e. Alan J waving the rainbow flag and unsurprisingly donating $$$ to that cause, while Dubai's ethics on the matter are rather the opposite.

And another thing - Qantas used to be one the better airlines to fly to Germany in the past, but Frankfurt flights got canned 4 years ago.
Carnot
I doubt it - these days its all about $$$$ - aka Corporate Greed.

Frankfurt was discontinued when the deal with Emirates was set up I think. Presumably not enough seats at the pointy end were being purchased, which is what Full Service airlines need.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Speaking to a friend of mine formally at QANTAS the feedback was the alliance with Emirates has not delivered what was expected in terms of return with Emirates selling tickets on the same route cheaper than Qantas could offer.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
I think Qantas (international) will increasingly become an Asian airline, with a few cross Pacific flights to North America and perhaps some flights to Heathrow, but that will be it.

In the last three years, I'm flown from Melbourne to Stockholm, Barcelona, Warsaw, Amsterdam Istanbul and Budapest and in the future I will probably fly to a dozen other European cities of similar size. Emirates and to a lesser extent, Singapore make it ultra easy, fly to Dubai or Singapore, stretch your legs for an hour or so and change to another plane. It's quick, easy and simple with only one stop to get to any European city of consequence.

I don't see how Qantas could ever compete with that, even if they resumed Frankfurt flights, it would involve an extra stop and many more hours to get to anywhere but London or Frankfurt. Not even the most fanatically "brand loyal" passengers would put up with that!
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Speaking to a friend of mine formally at QANTAS the feedback was the alliance with Emirates has not delivered what was expected in terms of return with Emirates selling tickets on the same route cheaper than Qantas could offer.
bevans
'formally' or 'formerly', perhaps?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I think Qantas (international) will increasingly become an Asian airline, with a few cross Pacific flights to North America and perhaps some flights to Heathrow, but that will be it.

In the last three years, I'm flown from Melbourne to Stockholm, Barcelona, Warsaw, Amsterdam Istanbul and Budapest and in the future I will probably fly to a dozen other European cities of similar size. Emirates and to a lesser extent, Singapore make it ultra easy, fly to Dubai or Singapore, stretch your legs for an hour or so and change to another plane. It's quick, easy and simple with only one stop to get to any European city of consequence.

I don't see how Qantas could ever compete with that, even if they resumed Frankfurt flights, it would involve an extra stop and many more hours to get to anywhere but London or Frankfurt. Not even the most fanatically "brand loyal" passengers would put up with that!
Bogong
If they operated Singapore as a scissor hub (say, Sydney-London, Melbourne-Rome, Brisbane-Frankfurt), then the extra stop could be eliminated.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
Speaking to a friend of mine formally at QANTAS the feedback was the alliance with Emirates has not delivered what was expected in terms of return with Emirates selling tickets on the same route cheaper than Qantas could offer.
bevans
Many times CodeShares result in higher prices for the passengers why buy tickets from the airline that doesn't use its own aircraft, which can happen with buying a Qantas ticket to many European destinations.

Not always though - I did a random check of Sydney to Frankfurt and return, departing Nov 7, return Nov 21.

Qantas - QF1 to Dubai and QF8045 (Operated by Emirates) - $1595 - the cheapest Economy ticket.

Emirates - EK419 to Dubai and EK045 to Frankfurt - $1596.02

All flights are on the Airbus 380.

The return is similar - Emirates operating the Frankfurt to Dubai sector, and separately from Dubai to Sydney.

Both can result in several hours in Dubai, so the choice comes down to the T&C and who gives more points etc.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Seems QANTAS is now actually planning on skipping Dubai completely?

bevans
Yes, that was the announcement a few weeks back. They are not saying this but I suspect Qantas knows it cannot grow   the sector using its own planes as way to much competition from EK, Etihad and Qatar, so why try?

Flying via Singapore was always popular and and as they have a number of their own flights to Singapore anyway it enables them to return to hubbing via Singapore for onward to EU. They do however remain code sharing with EK and just resigned for another 5 years.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Seems QANTAS is now actually planning on skipping Dubai completely?

Yes, that was the announcement a few weeks back. They are not saying this but I suspect Qantas knows it cannot grow   the sector using its own planes as way to much competition from EK, Etihad and Qatar, so why try?

Flying via Singapore was always popular and and as they have a number of their own flights to Singapore anyway it enables them to return to hubbing via Singapore for onward to EU. They do however remain code sharing with EK and just resigned for another 5 years.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Seems QANTAS is now actually planning on skipping Dubai completely?

Yes, that was the announcement a few weeks back. They are not saying this but I suspect Qantas knows it cannot grow   the sector using its own planes as way to much competition from EK, Etihad and Qatar, so why try?

Flying via Singapore was always popular and and as they have a number of their own flights to Singapore anyway it enables them to return to hubbing via Singapore for onward to EU. They do however remain code sharing with EK and just resigned for another 5 years.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Seems QANTAS is now actually planning on skipping Dubai completely?

Yes, that was the announcement a few weeks back. They are not saying this but I suspect Qantas knows it cannot grow   the sector using its own planes as way to much competition from EK, Etihad and Qatar, so why try?

Flying via Singapore was always popular and and as they have a number of their own flights to Singapore anyway it enables them to return to hubbing via Singapore for onward to EU. They do however remain code sharing with EK and just resigned for another 5 years.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Speaking to a friend of mine formally at QANTAS the feedback was the alliance with Emirates has not delivered what was expected in terms of return with Emirates selling tickets on the same route cheaper than Qantas could offer.
Many times CodeShares result in higher prices for the passengers why buy tickets from the airline that doesn't use its own aircraft, which can happen with buying a Qantas ticket to many European destinations.

Not always though - I did a random check of Sydney to Frankfurt and return, departing Nov 7, return Nov 21.

Qantas - QF1 to Dubai and QF8045 (Operated by Emirates) - $1595 - the cheapest Economy ticket.

Emirates - EK419 to Dubai and EK045 to Frankfurt - $1596.02

All flights are on the Airbus 380.

The return is similar - Emirates operating the Frankfurt to Dubai sector, and separately from Dubai to Sydney.

Both can result in several hours in Dubai, so the choice comes down to the T&C and who gives more points etc.
mikesyd
Last year I bought Dubai - Perth, Perth - Brisbane, Mel - Dubai cheaper on QF by $500 for family of 4 cheaper than on EK website.

Rule of thumb for Aussies. Flying via a hub of an airline is usually cheaper than flying from a hub. So if flying from Oz to EU via Dubai, Singapore, KL, Hong Kong, Doha or Abu Dhabi is all via someone elses hub. As QF does not have a central Hub of sorts and basically impossible to do unless going from somewhere west via Oz to NZ, QF struggles. However QF's strength is its domestic connections and long distances that on average exceed many international airlines in average flight distance.

Flying from Dubai, we often pay more on EK as we are flying from the hub. Many people fly to Muscat or Doha (before the political ban to Doha) on a cheap ticket then come back and fly via Dubai on EK on a long-haul and save money.  Before the political ban on Qatar airlines, expats were increasingly using Qatar airlines. However EK often wins out anyway because of the sheer size of their network, quality of service and frequency of flights, many of their destinations have multiple flights a day so you fly when you want to, not them.
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
If I had my druthers, I'druther come home from Heathrow via Singapore. It gets the 12 - 13 hour leg done first, leaving a 7 hour final burst.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In some circles there are already doubts being aired as to the ability to do Perth - Heathrow non stop on a 100% reliable basis.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
In some circles there are already doubts being aired as to the ability to do Perth - Heathrow non stop on a 100% reliable basis.
YM-Mundrabilla
No route is 100% reliable but there are some concerns about what happens in head winds or a bad fuel day. Qantas learnt alot from the Sydney Dallas route which has the A380 on its edge to get there and previously the 747-400's had the odd diversion for fuel until the weather, routing and loading sorted.

Problem with Perth is alt airfields are not that common, but neither is bad weather. Diversion for fuel decision will need to occur much eariler in the flight, likely approaching or flying over Indonesia and into airports in the north of WA.

The seating is however expected to be friendly which will cut some weight.

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