On right track with rail line duplication push

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 13 Oct 2017 11:18
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The line is so busy through that area the single line setup must be quite difficult to manage with all the traffic.  Interesting why this duplication has not already occurred?

Any takers?

On right track with rail line duplication push

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  tazzer96 Assistant Commissioner

I know a guy who is a train controller for QR.   The single track is an absolute nightmare for him. The single track is only half the problem, as north of landsborough, all the stations have only 1 platform (excluding nambor).     Only reason it hasn't been duplicated is because it's a political football.   I believe this duplication was once #1 on Infrastructure Australia's must build list.
  Spletsie Deputy Commissioner

A Business case on the Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade was completed in 2016 and has been submitted for consideration by Infrastructure Australia.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/B/Beerburrum-to-Nambour-Rail-Upgrade-Project

  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Current traffic counts for this line is 38 suburban services to or from Nambour and Gympie North, six tilt trains and 16 freights per day...total 60 trains a day over this single track section. When CTC was installed in the early 1980s, the traffic count would have been around 50 trains a day, with 12 passenger trains (including long distance) and the rest being freights, including a number of shunt trains.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Current traffic counts for this line is 38 suburban services to or from Nambour and Gympie North, six tilt trains and 16 freights per day...total 60 trains a day over this single track section. When CTC was installed in the early 1980s, the traffic count would have been around 50 trains a day, with 12 passenger trains (including long distance) and the rest being freights, including a number of shunt trains.
Sulla1
(1) Do trains overtake often at crossing loops?

(2) If so, are there any intermediate block signals in the middle of the single line section? This reduces delays to overtaken trains and reduced single line section occupancy.

(3) If so, there may be a need for stations with more than one loop, so that trains can overtake (in the same direction) as well as cross (in opposing directions) at the same time?

(4) Installing extra platforms at loops without them, sounds fairly cheap and easy, provided that you avoid costly lifts. Loop platforms, footbridges, ramps, stairs and lifts, are probably compatible with duplication.

(5) Do the loops have simultaneous arrivals, which in QLD can use the flashing yellow indication which means that there is no overlap (a kind of safety margin)?

(6) Are all the loops long enough for all the freight trains that operate?

(7) Are the loop turnouts of the high speed type? Faster loop turnouts may of course be eliminated if that section is duplicated.

(8) Are there any on-line track diagrams like the excellent ( http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR256.pdf ) which are limited to Standard Gauge lines only?

(9) At which loops do freight trains shunt, and do they occupy the loop while doing so. See (3).
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
(4) Installing extra platforms at loops without them, sounds fairly cheap and easy, provided that you avoid costly lifts. Loop platforms, footbridges, ramps, stairs and lifts, are probably compatible with duplication.
awsgc24
The re-alignment plans for the Landsborough - Nambour section shows the line extensively re-aligned with the old stations rebuilt In new locations, this been known there probably Is a reluctance to spend any funds upgrading any station earmarked for total replacement.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

1. Yes

2. No

3. There's one station with two loops, Palmwoods, three way meets happen occasionally. Nambour's dock platform is used to terminate most suburbans, which keeps the loop and mainline free for other trains.

4. Yes

5. Yes

6. Yes, but some loops will be lengthened to permit 1300m freights within the next few years.

7. Mostly no...25km/h turnouts are the norm.

8. Yes, in QR's North Coast Line information packs. Google will find it.

9. There is no freight shunting south of Maryborough West. No freight is generated between there and Brisbane.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways
  tazzer96 Assistant Commissioner

Current traffic counts for this line is 38 suburban services to or from Nambour and Gympie North, six tilt trains and 16 freights per day...total 60 trains a day over this single track section. When CTC was installed in the early 1980s, the traffic count would have been around 50 trains a day, with 12 passenger trains (including long distance) and the rest being freights, including a number of shunt trains.
(1) Do trains overtake often at crossing loops?

(4) Installing extra platforms at loops without them, sounds fairly cheap and easy, provided that you avoid costly lifts. Loop platforms, footbridges, ramps, stairs and lifts, are probably compatible with duplication.
awsgc24
For number 1.   Trains often have to reverse back onto the mainline, then shunt into the loop to allow another passenger train to use the platform.  

For number 4, this idea has been thrown around by both political parties as a quick cheap fix, but between landsborough and nambour, the track is horribly aligned, with an electric train barely making it past 80km/h before it slows down again.   20km takes 30 minutes.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
The re-alignment plans for the Landsborough - Nambour section shows the line extensively re-aligned with the old stations rebuilt In new locations, this been known there probably Is a reluctance to spend any funds upgrading any station earmarked for total replacement.
Nightfire
Is any of the existing alignment retained when most of the rest of the line is realigned?

Could new crossing loops (future duplication) be added to these existing good sections. If not at stations, no platforms and lifts, etc., are required?
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
The re-alignment plans for the Landsborough - Nambour section shows the line extensively re-aligned with the old stations rebuilt In new locations, this been known there probably Is a reluctance to spend any funds upgrading any station earmarked for total replacement.
Is any of the existing alignment retained when most of the rest of the line is realigned?

Could new crossing loops (future duplication) be added to these existing good sections. If not at stations, no platforms and lifts, etc., are required?
awsgc24
No, the old alignment on the Cab - Lands section was removed and revegetated as the rest of the realignment works from Brisbane to Townsville was done previously apart from a short section just north of Cabulture which was converted to a freight train holding loop prior to the Suburban system.

With duplicated well aligned track enabling freighters to hold top speed and there is no need for retention of the old alignment.

The NCL has crossing loops on average every 20-30km, not sure what adding more would do.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
The line is so busy through that area the single line setup must be quite difficult to manage with all the traffic.  Interesting why this duplication has not already occurred?

Any takers?

On right track with rail line duplication push
bevans
Anna Bligh had it on her to do list before 2010 as it was do be done in two phases, phase 2 to Landsbourgh and phase 3 to Nambour, but ran out of money due to GFC and growing debt and push to back burner.

Campbell Newman wanted to do it, but had no money and started discussion with the feds to co-fund but didn't get anywhere or get far enough before he lost office. Newman tried to get the line recognised as part of the National Network as it parallels Highway 1. Similar issue happened in Tassie, because its NG and/or because its not connecting state capitals the ARTC and/or feds don't want to know.

Anna P.....i, leader of the accidental govt has not done alot at all all round and now likely to loose office as a consequence.

Other issues, can the northern line between the city and Cabulture take much of an increase in commuter traffic off the coast?

The project was never going to start until the upgrade on the main line for the Kippa-ring line was complete.

Because the line will include O/H and be used by commuter trains the feds have minimal interest.

Both sides of govt clearly acknowledge the need but its not a major political vote winner as apart from those living along the corridor most in Qld don't care and even those living along the corridor were given a new four lane highway by the feds.

The benefit of the upgrade needs to be sold to a larger audience to win votes from other electorates. ie
- RTT and CTT services will save up to 1hr
- Freight services will be faster and more competitive
- Expand the com-mutability for those further up the line to Brisbane
- Enabler for the Sunshine Coast Line (promised 1 years ago) to start and likely a greater priority than rebuilding all the way to Nambour first.

Another issue, the line north of Nambour just doesn't get magically straight, if anything it gets worse with even the RTT down to 40km/hr. The realignment needs to continue to Gympie North, although duplication is not required. Beyond Gympie North there is some minor deviations required to Mary West. Beyond that its pretty good.
  tazzer96 Assistant Commissioner



The benefit of the upgrade needs to be sold to a larger audience to win votes from other electorates. ie
- RTT and CTT services will save up to 1hr
- Freight services will be faster and more competitive
- Expand the com-mutability for those further up the line to Brisbane
- Enabler for the Sunshine Coast Line (promised 1 years ago) to start and likely a greater priority than rebuilding all the way to Nambour first.

Another issue, the line north of Nambour just doesn't get magically straight, if anything it gets worse with even the RTT down to 40km/hr. The realignment needs to continue to Gympie North, although duplication is not required. Beyond Gympie North there is some minor deviations required to Mary West. Beyond that its pretty good.
RTT_Rules
Hit the nail on the head here.  Ideally the realignment and duplication would extend to yandina, and with realignment and duplication of the bad sections between gympie and yandina.  The cooran to woondum section is ideal as I believe that has the sharpest curve on the NCL.   But yandina to gympie, the bad sections are really bad but the rest is good, with mostly 120km/h running.

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